4.10 vs. 4.56 with 31's

[jd4242]

Slight change of plans probably. Still going 4.56 with an E-locker up front. But I'm thinking about going with a Detroit locker in the rear. Makes things a little simpler and this way I won't have an open diff in the back when the e-locker would be disengaged. Plus on top of that my parents have a 2000 GMC Sierra with the factory Eaton G80 locker in it and I really like the way it drives/handles with the G80 on the pavement and has good traction off road.

Anybody have experience with the Detroit? How do you like it?

What type of carrier do you have in it now??

 

[gmanpaint]

Have you looked at the Auburn E-locker Ected Max? They make one for the D35.
It is a LS off, and fully locked on. On the fly operation. It's pricey, but less then an ARB by a few hundred.

 

[timtimtimajim]

What type of carrier do you have in it now??

Just the stock limited slip with 3.73 gears.

Have you looked at the Auburn E-locker Ected Max? They make one for the D35.
It is a LS off, and fully locked on. On the fly operation. It's pricey, but less then an ARB by a few hundred.

I just did a brief search on it now that you mentioned it. Seems they get good reviews. And the Ected seems like a good choice. I do like having Limited Slip. Plus it's shift on the fly and says you can use it up too any speed even when it's locked (though i'm not sure shy you would need to) Whereas the Eaton can only be engaged when stopped and can only be used up to 20mph. The Eaton and the Auburn seem to be priced about the same, both of which are cheaper than ARB's. Plus maybe for that money it does make more sense to go selectable rather than automatic. (Detroit is about the same price)

Do you have experience with the Auburn? What's it like to have a LS in the front axle?

More options to consider than I initially thought. That's okay though, I've got plenty of time to decide.

 

[jd4242]

Just the stock limited slip with 3.73 gears.

For the cost and unless you do serious rock climbing where one wheel will be off the ground, the ford racing carbon fiber pack would be more than enough. .its cheap and its tough. .trust me its night and day difference than the worn stock ls thats in it now,unless you've replaced the cluches lately and still wouldnt grab like the cabon ones

Id spend your big money on the front. .ls in the front would be my choice unless you can unlock one wheel..lockers up front are very hard to steer with both tires 100% locked,they just push

 

[natenkiki2004]

The Ford Racing LS pack etc. all use clutches and they wear out over time.

They do, no doubt about that. But, I gotta say, my factory LS rear at 235,000 miles still lays 2 tracks on anything other than pavement (haven't tried) despite having found 2 broken off clutch pack ears in the diff. My Ex was not a sunday driver either, it was used to haul wood, drive in the snow for years and driven aggressively by a high schooler. Like jd4242 said, if it was mine, I'd rebuild with the appropriate gears but keep the carrier and put in the Ford Racing pack. Very cost effective.

 

[timtimtimajim]

For the cost and unless you do serious rock climbing where one wheel will be off the ground, the ford racing carbon fiber pack would be more than enough. .its cheap and its tough. .trust me its night and day difference than the worn stock ls thats in it now,unless you've replaced the cluches lately and still wouldnt grab like the cabon ones

Id spend your big money on the front. .ls in the front would be my choice unless you can unlock one wheel..lockers up front are very hard to steer with both tires 100% locked,they just push

You do bring up a good point. It would be way more cost effective. Though I do have to say, I've had one wheel off the ground many times.

Granted that was before the lift.
But that's why I'm looking at lockers rather than just LS. Regardless I am going to consider any option before I make a decision.

I'm not overly worried about cost. Don't get me wrong I love to save money, but it's always been my goal to build this vehicle a certain way. So sometimes that means spending a bit more.

 

[jd4242]

You do bring up a good point. It would be way more cost effective. Though I do have to say, I've had one wheel off the ground many times.

View attachment 95056

Granted that was before the lift.
But that's why I'm looking at lockers rather than just LS. Regardless I am going to consider any option before I make a decision.

I'm not overly worried about cost. Don't get me wrong I love to save money, but it's always been my goal to build this vehicle a certain way. So sometimes that means spending a bit more.

In that situation the carbon pack would've worked fine especially if you have a locker in front..its only when the front tires are up against something and one of rears or even one of the fronts is also in air that a ls would struggle..that CF pack is strong and id go to say its as tight as a locker..i couldnt even fit a extra clutch in mine...ive done a ton of burnouts with very sticky tires and it still spins both no problem. .i used it in my ranger to save money over another aussie,i was skeptical also


If money is not a issue then id go with the Auburn E-locker Ected Max front and rear

 

[Rhett]

They do, no doubt about that. But, I gotta say, my factory LS rear at 235,000 miles still lays 2 tracks on anything other than pavement (haven't tried) despite having found 2 broken off clutch pack ears in the diff. My Ex was not a sunday driver either, it was used to haul wood, drive in the snow for years and driven aggressively by a high schooler. Like jd4242 said, if it was mine, I'd rebuild with the appropriate gears but keep the carrier and put in the Ford Racing pack. Very cost effective.

This is good to know. My only experience with LS is from the 90's, and that vehicle may have been driven without the friction modifier for a long time. Its limited slip wasn't working at 75,000 miles. I am not as far along as timtim is with the diffs but when I do regear I'm going to get something.

Does the Ford Racing carbon LS pack require a friction modifier?

 

[Rhett]

You do bring up a good point. It would be way more cost effective. Though I do have to say, I've had one wheel off the ground many times.

View attachment 95056

Granted that was before the lift.
But that's why I'm looking at lockers rather than just LS. Regardless I am going to consider any option before I make a decision.

I'm not overly worried about cost. Don't get me wrong I love to save money, but it's always been my goal to build this vehicle a certain way. So sometimes that means spending a bit more.

Wow. Our trucks are almost clones down to the removed tupperware skirts on the rockers.

If I may ask, what did you use to plug the holes in the body, where the rocker skirts attached? Rubber grommets of a certain size?

 

[natenkiki2004]

This is good to know. My only experience with LS is from the 90's, and that vehicle may have been driven without the friction modifier for a long time. Its limited slip wasn't working at 75,000 miles. I am not as far along as timtim is with the diffs but when I do regear I'm going to get something.

Does the Ford Racing carbon LS pack require a friction modifier?

To be fair, this is my only experience as well. Could be a fluke and the pack could have been replaced but I highly doubt it since neither me nor the previous owner did it which accounts for over half of it's mileage.

I'd imagine the premium pack requires a friction modifier too. On mine I put in Mobil 1 75w-90 synthetic which has the friction modifier in it. It doesn't chatter around turns and holds up just fine. On a new pack though, you might have to add some of the Ford special sauce.

 

[timtimtimajim]

Wow. Our trucks are almost clones down to the removed tupperware skirts on the rockers.

If I may ask, what did you use to plug the holes in the body, where the rocker skirts attached? Rubber grommets of a certain size?

That's crazy!

These are what I used to plug the holes: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040CTUJ6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then I also got a set of flares off a 92 Sport. 91-92 Sports didn't have the lower tupperware. Instead they had flares that went to the bottom of the fender. Check it out in post 95 of my registry http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/tims-93-sport.421787/page-4

 

[gmanpaint]

I have front auto locker's in 2 rigs, and it can be a bear to steer, and even stops me from making full turns when in a tight hairy situation. 1st gens locked steer easier then a 2nd gen locked with stock steering. Gearbox vs R&P.

I have the CAD axle in the 2nd gen, and can disconnect the pass side if that happens to free it up. I am contemplating on getting the Ected Max to replace the auto in this rig. I like everything about that locker for this rig. Wire routing on a 2nd gen is simple and unobstructed to the front diff. Having LS up front in a overlanding type rig is awesome IMO, and only switch to full lock when absolutely needed. Thats a perfect front combo for both pavement & trails. Normal LS lock up is progressive and locks close to 90%. That makes normal street / trail operation handle easily.

I have an auto locker in the front of the 1st gen, and it isn't as bad, but there are times I wish I had a selectable locker. Like on the street during snow storms. I used to be able to lock the hubs, and drive with them locked with an open carrier, and turn on 4wdH on the fly. Can't do that anymore with the locker. I have to be stopped and lock the hubs manually, then turn on 4wd and go. If there was a solid snow pack 100% of the time, I could drive with the hubs locked, but that just doesn't happen where I am. Off road, off the pavement, is not a big deal to leave them locked all the time, as the tires will spin as needed with no harm to the diff guts. This would be the reasons for changing from auto to a selectable on this rig, if I ever felt like it. Wiring the front locker on the 1st gen is less desirable tho.

My Bottom line is this: A selectable front locker for a rig on/off road both, is the best for a reason. The full lock up is there when wanted, and open when not needed. The less it's used, the easier it is on parts, and less chance of breakage leaving you stuck or stranded with a broken axle/hub/carrier.
There are different types of selectables these days, you just have to decide which works best, and in your budget. Auto lockers also work very good, are way more affordable, and are dependable for the most part. You just have to decide if you can live with the trade offs they come with.

A side note...... I do not know if this is true for all, or everybody running detroits, but I know a few people that broke an axle shaft, and in turn it grenades the locker & carrier as a result of not being able to absorb all that energy release. None of them replaced with a new detroit, after witnessing the carnage and additional costs of a re-gear, diff rebuild.

As far as gear choices goes, there are not that many actual manufacturers for them. Most are just bought and re-branded. The difference to really look for is the number of cuts used to make them. Cheaper gears are mostly 3 cut, and the better/stronger/quieter gears are 5 cut. Yukon, US gear, & Richmond are all 5 cut I believe.

 

[timtimtimajim]

Thanks for that information @gmanpaint!

A side note...... I do not know if this is true for all, or everybody running detroits, but I know a few people that broke an axle shaft, and in turn it grenades the locker & carrier as a result of not being able to absorb all that energy release. None of them replaced with a new detroit, after witnessing the carnage and additional costs of a re-gear, diff rebuild.

I've heard of a couple cases where that happened. Usually it seems to be either guys that are doing extreme crawling, or are being stupid when they wheel their vehicles. For the most part the Detroit seems to be a pretty strong locker, especially for what I'll be using it for.

 

[jd4242]

I have front auto locker's in 2 rigs, and it can be a bear to steer, and even stops me from making full turns when in a tight hairy situation. 1st gens locked steer easier then a 2nd gen locked with stock steering. Gearbox vs R&P.

I have the CAD axle in the 2nd gen, and can disconnect the pass side if that happens to free it up. I am contemplating on getting the Ected Max to replace the auto in this rig. I like everything about that locker for this rig. Wire routing on a 2nd gen is simple and unobstructed to the front diff. Having LS up front in a overlanding type rig is awesome IMO, and only switch to full lock when absolutely needed. Thats a perfect front combo for both pavement & trails. Normal LS lock up is progressive and locks close to 90%. That makes normal street / trail operation handle easily.

I have an auto locker in the front of the 1st gen, and it isn't as bad, but there are times I wish I had a selectable locker. Like on the street during snow storms. I used to be able to lock the hubs, and drive with them locked with an open carrier, and turn on 4wdH on the fly. Can't do that anymore with the locker. I have to be stopped and lock the hubs manually, then turn on 4wd and go. If there was a solid snow pack 100% of the time, I could drive with the hubs locked, but that just doesn't happen where I am. Off road, off the pavement, is not a big deal to leave them locked all the time, as the tires will spin as needed with no harm to the diff guts. This would be the reasons for changing from auto to a selectable on this rig, if I ever felt like it. Wiring the front locker on the 1st gen is less desirable tho.

My Bottom line is this: A selectable front locker for a rig on/off road both, is the best for a reason. The full lock up is there when wanted, and open when not needed. The less it's used, the easier it is on parts, and less chance of breakage leaving you stuck or stranded with a broken axle/hub/carrier.
There are different types of selectables these days, you just have to decide which works best, and in your budget. Auto lockers also work very good, are way more affordable, and are dependable for the most part. You just have to decide if you can live with the trade offs they come with.

A side note...... I do not know if this is true for all, or everybody running detroits, but I know a few people that broke an axle shaft, and in turn it grenades the locker & carrier as a result of not being able to absorb all that energy release. None of them replaced with a new detroit, after witnessing the carnage and additional costs of a re-gear, diff rebuild.

As far as gear choices goes, there are not that many actual manufacturers for them. Most are just bought and re-branded. The difference to really look for is the number of cuts used to make them. Cheaper gears are mostly 3 cut, and the better/stronger/quieter gears are 5 cut. Yukon, US gear, & Richmond are all 5 cut I believe.

If you have a full locker and manual hubs in a first gen then just lock the driverside till you need both tires locked..you drive with one hub locked and still engage 4x4 if stopped..i wouldnt suggest driving all the time like that but if you know your need it thats what i do..

I rarely lock both front hubs,just isn't needed most times..also just locking the driverside, if you break a axle or anything related to that shaft its the short one that can just pull out..your have a empty hole there but truck will drive if need be

 

[gmanpaint]

If you have a full locker and manual hubs in a first gen then just lock the driverside till you need both tires locked..you drive with one hub locked and still engage 4x4 if stopped..i wouldnt suggest driving all the time like that but if you know your need it thats what i do..

I rarely lock both front hubs,just isn't needed most times..also just locking the driverside, if you break a axle or anything related to that shaft its the short one that can just pull out..your have a empty hole there but truck will drive if need be

I don't know if doing that will ruin the unlocked hub sides splined washer. Won't it rub the spindle as the axle turns? With one hub locked, it will turn the locker, and the other axle, but with one hub not engaged, I can't figure in my head how that washer spinning plays out. ( I have the flu and can't think as I should think how thunk I am) I burned a couple of those splined washers. Once from having a hub locked (pre locker days) and didn't realize it until I heard the washer screaming. The other was from the wrong spindle seal used, and didn't allow the splines to protrude out far enough, causing short shaft syndrome, and the spindle end burned threw the washer.

I have the C-clip eliminator on the pass side axle, so both sides come out easy.

Sorry to the OP for going off topic! (again, I suck)

Edit: Ok, I brain farted there. The auto locker wont be turning as there is no power being applied to it from the drive shaft. Nothing to see here, move along.