5.4L Swap? | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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5.4L Swap?

blksn8k

Active Member
Joined
December 15, 2001
Messages
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City, State
Clinton, OH
Year, Model & Trim Level
07 Sport Trac Limited 4x4
Have there been any successful 5.4L engine swaps into a V8 gen 2 Sport Trac or 2006 thru 2010 Explorer? The reason I ask is that there are some decent deals out there now for remanufactured 5.4L 3V engines. Depending on associated costs of the swap that might be a less expensive and potentially more reliable alternative to a supercharger for those looking for a little more grunt for towing, etc., especially on high mileage trucks. I assume one of the biggest hurdles would be the exhaust system and possible frame or steering interference due to the extra width of the 5.4L. That might require custom shorty headers which could add to the cost. Flowmaster makes a "block hugger" shorty header for that engine in the F-150. Is that a possible solution?
 



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Here is a thread to read thru. He hasn't been on the site for some time, but was fun to follow back then:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/my-5-4l-3v-adrenalin-engine-swap.236966/

Long story short. He bought a 5.4 that turned out to be a dud. Bought a new block and had heads built. Whipple supercharger on top. Some PCM issues, then transmission issues. He ended up pulling it all out and did a 5.0 Coyote / 6-speed manual. He has a speed shop in North or South Carolina. Ford guy 100%.

Without the supercharger, I do wonder if he would have had the same transmission trouble with the 5.4L 3V
 






I was aware of that saga. That's why I said "successful". LOL.
 






Ford Racing now has a 5.3L shortblock assembly that is based on the 4.6L modular block. It includes a cast iron block, forged internals and 4-bolt mains and would yield a 10.5:1 compression ratio with 3V heads. JDM has a kit that includes the above shortblock and the parts required to install your 3V heads. Although this would probably be more expensive than a remanufactured 5.4 you would be gaining almost the same displacement along with the possibility of adding a supercharger later without having to worry about the engine being able to handle boost. It would also have the same physical dimensions as the original 4.6L which would eliminate any fitment issues associated with the taller deck height of a 5.4L block.

http://www.teamjdm.com/jdm-ford-performance-5-3l-3v-modular-stroker-shortblock-kit/
 






That has been lurking in my head for a while as well:) If I had time, I would even buy some cheap 5.4 just to fit test.

I had my 4.6 out twice, and the exhaust manifolds and Y pipe would be the issue. Not sure about the extra deck height and clearance with battery and air box on the sides. But otherwise, it should be a simple drop. And the 6R works with 5.4 in F150 and expeditions.
 






Not sure if you saw my last post. There is another possibility that would not involve using the wider 5.4L block and that is the the 5.3L stroker shortblock which starts with a 4.6L block. No change in overall fit of the engine but you would gain significant displacement. You could probably even install a stroker crankshaft in a 4.6L block and get the same result but this takes all the work out of building the engine and you would probably be hard pressed to get all the machining and assembly work done for less money.
 






Just do a 4v head swap if you have the 4.6 already or just do a 4v 4.6 swap out of a aviator. .id look at the navi 5.4 4v before a 3v 5.4
 






Again, my focus has shifted away from the 5.4L and to using the new 5.3L stroker shortblock that is based on a 4.6L iron block. This discussion involves '06 and newer Explorers since my vehicle is a 2007 Sport Trac. I also realize I am probably wasting my time trying to explain all that considering current attention spans. LOL! But I do appreciate alternative ideas since it gives myself and others a chance to investigate and dissect those options.

Anyway, what if your engine has high mileage and you are going to need a rebuilt shortblock anyway? Are you going to throw a set of used 4V heads on a high mileage 4.6? Anyone looking for a power increase AND reliability probably wouldn't. Now you have just added the cost of a cylinder head rebuild. How easy is it to mount accessories like the power steering pump, alternator, AC, etc. to the 4V heads? You will also need the 4V intake and exhaust manifolds and probably exhaust system mods to mate up to the 4V heads. Yes, you could probably find a wrecking yard Aviator to rob all that stuff from but I would be hard pressed to recall ever seeing an Aviator on the highway recently let alone in a bone yard. How compatible are all those parts and accessories with a newer Explorer? Can I mount the accessories from my year truck to the Aviator engine? Regardless, I obviously can't use my old intake and exhaust manifolds since they wouldn't fit the 4V heads. Also, will exhaust manifolds from an '03-'05 Aviator even fit inside the frame rails and clear the steering shaft of an '06-'10 Explorer?

A better option might be to find a complete, low mileage Aviator that has been totaled and do a complete swap from that. Not sure what kind of emissions issues you might have to deal with since the Aviator will probably be older than the vehicle you are putting it's engine into. And you still haven't addressed the above issues. No matter how you look at it using 4V heads is probably going to require a lot more modifications to the rest of the vehicle.

My point is that using a brand new 5.3L stroker is probably going to involve a lot less drama and will still result in a decent power increase at lower rpms that should be more usable in a truck. And, by the way, a stock '03-'05 Aviator was rated at 300 lb-ft of torque. Even a stock 3V 4.6L in the Explorer was rated at 315 lb-ft. Most of that power increase can probably be attributed to the variable cam timing (VCT) used on the 3V heads but either way you are going to lose VCT with Aviator 4V heads. My guess is you could probably expect at least 350 lb-ft from a 5.3L with 3V heads. Not sure I see any advantage from 4V Aviator heads. Considering everything necessary to make it work and little, if any, power gains it might even be a step backwards.

If your truck is high mileage you can either have your 3V heads rebuilt or trade them on a rebuilt set. Depending on the year it might be a good idea to upgrade to a set of 3V, 12mm spark plug heads and their spark plug coils to get rid of the older two-piece 16mm plugs in the earlier 3V heads. Everything else should simply bolt on since the 5.3L is based on a 4.6L iron block.
 






Trying to get a few more details figured out in case I get serious about doing this "swap".

One of the issues I discovered today is that because the VCT system on the 3V heads is operated by oil pressure it requires a higher pressure oil pump than non-VCT engines (2V & 4V). I believe the 5.3L shortblock includes the correct oil pump for 3V heads but I have not been able to confirm that yet.

One other issue is the flywheel. I know the 5.3L crank is drilled for an eight bolt flywheel but I have no idea how the stock crank and flywheel on the Explorer 4.6L are drilled. Anyone know?

Also on the flywheel, the 5.3L is an internally balanced assembly which I think means the flywheel needs to be balanced independently rather than as part of the rotating assembly. I doubt the stock flywheel is set up that way? That could also involve the harmonic balancer on the crankshaft. Best source for answers to those will probably be JDM Engineering.

I also know that JDM Engineering includes motor mount adapter plates in their 3V kit but those are required when installing the 5.3L in a Mustang. I do not believe those are necessary for an Explorer but I have not confirmed that yet either. The only thing I have to go on is the fact that both our original block and the new 5.3L block are iron blocks that were cast in the Windsor, Ontario shop, I think.

Speaking of blocks I also found out that the 5.3L uses the BOSS 5.0 block which is a nodular iron casting and stronger than a normal cast iron block. As best I can tell the BOSS block uses two normal vertical and two cross bolted main bearing cap bolts on each crankshaft main bearing (same as a stock 4.6L Explorer block). Each cap is made to accommodate two additional vertical bolts per cap but the holes are not drilled and are not recommended for a low HP (non-boosted) application.

Here's another good article on the 5.3L. This one is using 2V Trick Flow heads so that part doesn't apply but there is still some good info on the 5.3L shortblock.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1703-big-2v-3v-4v-mod-power/
 






This is all very exciting, I love this stuff. I had a Tahoe with 350, wanted to do a swap with 383 but sold it before got there.
I had a 90 Thunderbird SC with 3.8 v6 that I modified a little, I was going to swap 5.0 into it when 3.8 blew head gasket from the supercharger, ended up getting another motor from a wreck.

That short block is too expensive. Unless you are an enthusiast with load of cash, nobody is going to spend 7k on the block plus probably 3k on a labor and extra costs to put it in a $ 5k car. Don't get me wrong, this is super cool, did not know about the 5.3 .

I think you'd spend fraction of it trying to drop an old 5.4 and fabricate or modify the headers and the Y pipe, and that would be about that.
 






The reason the 5.3 is so expensive is because it uses a brand new HD BOSS block, forged rods, pistons and stroker crank. If you wanted to add a supercharger or turbo later on you would already have a solid foundation. I really like my Sport Trac and I don't consider it a 5K beater by any means. The best part is I paid it off seven years ago. I wouldn't have kept it for ten years if I thought it was a POS and I have no desire to put a junk yard motor in it or put a blower on a high mileage stock engine. I use it to pull an 18 ft enclosed trailer occasionally and it could use a little more torque. The 5.3 looks like the cleanest way to get there without a lot of drama. Yeah, it's definitely not a cheap way to get there but you get what you pay for. I do all my own work and have done some pretty crazy engine swaps in the past including a 351W with a top loader 4-speed in a '72 Pinto wagon. I also have a '75 Bronco with a 393W stroker and NV3550 5-speed. I would like to think I have learned a thing or two over the years.

BTW, I had an '89 Supercoupe. Kinda wish I never sold that one.
 






One thing to consider is 3v cam choice. Most cams require you to limit or lock out the phasers. Its not because they don't work well, its because the higher spring pressures needed to keep the valves seated at rpm are also stiff enough to hold back the cam at idle enough to make the cam retard.

I wouldn't consider 4v heads unless you wanted to spend alot of money for little to no gain. All the 2/3/4v heads do interchange technically, its all about the way the pistons are set up for valve reliefs. 3v blocks are setup for bigger oil ports though because of vct.
 






At this point I would have no intent to use aftermarket cams but that is a point well taken. Ford also states that piston to valve clearance must be checked depending on cam choice.

As for the different head choices the 5.3L shortblock uses a piston that is designed to work with either 2V, 3V or 4V heads. I would plan to use stock 3V heads and the piston design is supposed to yield a 10.5:1 compression ratio with that head. I'm not planning to build a race truck and sticking with the stock heads and valvetrain should allow me to retain the stock electronics as well. Worst case I would need to have the computer re-tuned to adjust for the larger displacement and greater fuel requirements which could also lead to larger injectors and other fuel system upgrades.
 






Since they offer 3v heads and timing set with camshaft phasers that come only with 3v design, I would thing the oil pump is designed to handle extra oil demand.
Do you have any concerns about the 6R60 with extra tq from the new engine ? 6R is pretty solid unit, I have 242k miles on my original and it's still good.
 






I asked JDM about the oil pump that comes with the 5.3 and they confirmed that it is the high pressure pump required for the VCT.

I also asked them if the engine mount kit they include as part of their package deal would work in an Explorer. I am a little skeptical that it will since it is made to mount the 5.3 in a Mustang. So far they say it will work but I just asked them to confirm that again.

BTW, I am not totally committed to any of this. Just "exploring" the possibilities. Plan A is to move on to the 2019 Ranger but I want to wait and see what engine options Ford plans to offer. If I can't at least get the 2.7L EcoBoost in a 4x4 crewcab Ranger then I will probably revert back to Plan B which is to upgrade the engine in the Sport Trac. I also doubt that kind of info will be available until at least January of 2018 at the Detroit NAIAS auto show.
 






I have also been looking into this but for more of a performance reason. My big draw back is I don't know if the 6r60 can handle it. Anyone swapped a 6r80 into a 08? what all would be required?
 






I have an 07 explorer 4.6 and I was wondering if a 2013 Shelby 5.4l would go into an explorer and mate with the 6r60 since some 5.4s use the 6r60 or 6r80 tranny. That would put a raptor or SRT to shame. But wouldn't that be expensive tho being that the 5.4 is a bigger engine? My 4th gen is a high milage truck and I've noticed these 4.6 3V are solid. As far as modifying these 3V I've noticed they fall under the mustang GT category so I've been doing some 4.6l 3v homework and found a forced induction kit that I will be purchasing soon for my 4th gen explorer. The kit is for a 06-2010 mustang GT 4.6l 3v engine but I dont care, if something doesn't fit then I make it fit. The kit is a 61mm turbocharger by Hellion power systems.. Its a direct bolt in system where u can utilize and maintain all factory accessories. U can even keep your factory catalytic converters location and with additional add on like a bigger fuel system, cams, better computer blah blah blah power levels will exceed 700+ HP.
 






let us know how it turns out that will be a fun truck for sure.
 






Personally...I would never piss around spending performance dollars on a 3V engine. The bang for the buck just isn't there. For the trouble and cost it would be to swap in a 5.4L and the major cost it would be to build a stroked and poked 4.6L (and still end up with lack luster results) a person would be a fool not to consider a junkyard Coyote swap. Fords 5.0L Coyote is bulletproof, makes far more power than the 5.4L or a stroked and poked 4.6L and I would trust the longevity of a used Coyote with twice the mileage over an old 4.6L 3V. Lets also keep in mind its a lighter engine that'll remove some undesirable front end weight and it nets better mileage to boot. Any swap is going to require a little ingenuity and digging into the ECU....so why not go with an engine that's a proven performer? :dunno:
 



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I have a new 2003 ford explorer sport trac engine 4.0 L V6 engine. Can i put it in 2005 ford expedition ?
 






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