5 speed trans Whine

[jimwww]

Well I just got my 91 explorer sport this afternoon with a 5spd and it has the whine as well. (have not used 4wd yet - does it warm or cold)
I am a bit concerned but this tranny has been leaking for some time. (small amt)(previous owner)

1. Is there a place to fill it under the hood (top it up?)(could not find today)
2. Mine has a new clutch from 2 years ago - what exactly has to be fixed to get rid of the whine? -rebuild what? or replace what?
3. Personally I love the sound.. sounds like a 'gear' drive if you guys know what that is but I am worried about reliability. Just because it is whining is it less reliable?
4. This vehicle was used for towing in the past (small trailer) - cannot imagine towed much weight - prob under 750 lbs.
5. I did buy it for 500.00 - market value here in vancouver is 2100 so I am not complaining. I am taking it to a lube place this morning - what fluid should go into it? My concern is if I go to synthetic it will leak out faster from wherever the orig leak is coming from. (will have them chk drain plugs)
6. Has anyone tried this to reduce whine? (I bought some yesterday)
Lucas transmission fix oil additive
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=29&catid=2&loc=show

THanks guys - I really appreciate everyone on this forum..

 

[glfredrick]

I think I'm going to try some 90w gear oil to quite it down and see what happens, I really don't have anything to lose, plus its not my only vehicle if it does go out on me I'll still have something to drive.

If you try the gear oil, that will be the last time your transmission will EVER run! What you have to loose is your working transmission!

I've pulled a ton of them that had gear oil used in place of MERCON. Every one was fried beyond re-building.

I'd try Amsoil synthetic transmission oil -- DEFINITELY NOT GEAR OIL.

 

[glfredrick]

1. Is there a place to fill it under the hood (top it up?)(could not find today)

You both check, drain, and fill a manual transmission from under the vehicle. There are a couple large bolt head-looking places that are the drain and fill ports. I don't recall the wrench size right off hand, but they are in the 18-19mm or larger size range. The upper one is the check/fill port, the lower is the drain port.

Here is a link to a picture of the M5OD transmission, you can see the plugs on the side of the transmission in the picture, and they also describe the procedure for replacing the leaky rubber plugs on the shift rail (I just silicone them myself).

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/ManualTransmission.html

I'd recommend draining whatever oil is in that transmission and replacing it with fully synthetic MERCON transmission fluid, such as Amsoil, Mobil 1, Redline, etc.

Here is an table (from Ford) that suggests synthetic oil for heavy-duty use in manual transmissions:

http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl477h.htm

2. Mine has a new clutch from 2 years ago - what exactly has to be fixed to get rid of the whine? -rebuild what? or replace what?

About the only things on the clutch that can "whine" are a bad throw-out bearing (the bearing that pushes the clutch fingers in) or a bad pilot bearing (in the end of the crankshaft where the nose of the input shaft rides).

Here is a link to an illustration of a Ford clutch setup to help you visualize the parts I've described.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/illustrations/bl379lib.htm

If you are thinking about rebuilding your manual transmission, here is a view of the various parts inside... As you can see, there are a lot of parts that could potentially cause a whine... An expensive process to rebuild as well.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/pdf_documents/ToyoKoygoMazda.pdf

3. Personally I love the sound.. sounds like a 'gear' drive if you guys know what that is but I am worried about reliability. Just because it is whining is it less reliable?

Yes, but the fact that it is that loud means that you are likely on the verge of having no working transmission at all... Also, good luck finding a good used replacement. I'd start banking money for a rebuild, and do so before it totally welds itself together. (You'll need at least $600)

4. This vehicle was used for towing in the past (small trailer) - cannot imagine towed much weight - prob under 750 lbs.

Nope -- not the problem. These transmissions can easily handle the weight of the Explorer and a small trailer. More likely is the wrong oil (gear oil instead of MERCON or running it dry because of the leaky shift-rail plugs -- a WELL KNOWN problem on these transmissions.

5. I did buy it for 500.00 - market value here in vancouver is 2100 so I am not complaining. I am taking it to a lube place this morning - what fluid should go into it? My concern is if I go to synthetic it will leak out faster from wherever the orig leak is coming from. (will have them chk drain plugs)

Synthetic does not leak any faster than any other oil. What it does do is clean all the gook out of the inside of your transmission due to the higher detergent factors, which may expose any bad seals that you already have.

Here is a link to the shift rail plug fix:

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/shift_rail_plug_maintenance.htm

This is a VERY EASY AT HOME FIX -- If you just pop out the plugs, clean them, and silicone them back into place, it is a 15 minute job. I'd do it myself, as I don't trust oil change places to actually have qualified mechanics on duty. They are entry-level shops and get entry level kids to do the work.

6. Has anyone tried this to reduce whine? (I bought some yesterday) Lucas transmission fix oil additive
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=29&catid=2&loc=show

Some folks have had success with Lucas, and I like it in some cases, especially their steering box additive. I'd try the synthetic transmission oil first. It is a better bet, IMO.

 

[glfredrick]

Mine whined for 200 miles....then the gears shredded

Fun stuff, the m5 is crap just like it's auto counterpart. Next time it blows i'm putting a c4 in it

Let me know -- I have the bell housing, tailshaft, and adaptor housing to do a C4 swap into an Explorer...

 

[jimwww]

Ok.. I went to the local place here and had mine checked over and this is what I think has happened as well as why my tranny is leaking. Also an explanation to why mine is leaking is not something I have seen posted here.

1. I think the previous owner let the tranny fluid get to loww and my bearings now are worn - not sure if it is pilot bearing or throwout bearing but I will have to get it fixed.
2. I did put in Lucas Tranny fix into it 1 liter and it still took another 1.1 liters of top up (I will put synthetic in at the end of the month)
3. The tech guy said that the shift tower at the base of the stick shift is leaking and that when you leave your hand on the shifter as you drive the small plastic thing at the bottom warps ans -viola leaking - he has said he has seen this a lot in explorers. Anyway that is where mine is leaking so it sounds like an relatively easy fix. Lucas tranny fix stopped the leaking yesterday - but I will look under it this morning.

 

[glfredrick]

You are actually speaking about two separate, but linked systems when you are talking about clutch components and transmission components. One does not necessarily affect the other.

For instance, low transmission oil will not and can not affect the throw-out bearing and/or pilot bearing, which are both clutch parts and outside the transmission (though in the bell housing). Neither are oiled at all, so transmission oil levels do not affect them.

If you are having to add 2L of oil to your transmission, it was seriously low on oil and will likely have damaged parts from the heat build up. You may slow the damage process, but there is no liquid on earth that will restore worn parts to like new condition. Best you can hope for is adequate lubrication to slow the wear and halt the whine somewhat (which stems from worn parts that are rubbing in ways not intended by the original design).

 

[jimwww]

Ok.. maybe I should have explained what I was thinking - in an earlier post there is a mention of the whine being caused by pilot bearing or throwout bearing and so I thought that is what is causing mine to whine as well - now I am not sure what the whine is but I do know that it was down two quarts (by the previous owner). I will fix it but when I talk to the mechanic it would help if I knew what was whining.. it may be most of the parts being under lubricated - maybe I need a whole new tranny.. not sure but I do know the clutch was replaced 2 years ago.

I just picked up the 2dr yesterday.

 

[jimwww]

Today I went to Valley transmission here in Chilliwack and they say it is the bearing in the tranny that are worn (from low oil) and they recommend not having oil go lower that 1/2 qt to avoid damage. Mine was down 2.2 liiters and so they recommend a bearing kit change (comes with new bearings & syncros) and shift tower upgrade kit that takes the plastic piece at the bottom of the shifter and replaces it with a metal one. (which is where most leaking comes from) total cost approx 800-1000 incl labour

He says the M5 is getting rare now -

 

[glfredrick]

That sounds about right from what you've described and from what I know about prices for parts.

Sorry that you have to go through all that expense.

He's right about the M5OD getting somewhat rare, but they're out there if you look. Might be able to save yourself some bucks...

I know that there are some available here in Louisville, but I'm not sure how much shipping would be to where you are. I could probably find a reasonable used one in the $200 range.

 

[jimwww]

I bought the truck for 500.00 and new what I was getting into.. so it is ok..
I bought a new car to get around as well - so I am not dependant on the truck as it sits.

 

[deadman_walking]

Do Not Use Gear Oil!

I recently traded a 89 F150 for my 92 Ex. The reason was the pickup had a blown Mazda 5 spd. The reason it blew was that I " "put gear oil in instead of Mercon. The Mazda M5R2 tranny has fiber spacers in it and the gear oil destroys them. Also the Mazda is prone to leaking at the base of the shifter housing because of three plastic plugs, the dry out and and fall out. The master rebuild kit cost about $500 on the cheap side and it aint an easy fix unless you have access to honing and press tools. I seen some good links for trany descriptions and here's one Dead Link Removed
Good Luck.

 

[jimwww]

I agree.. I am getting a local tranny shop to do it for me and there is an upgrade kit for the plugs that are metal so I will have that put in as well. I will put Mercon in it when I get it done.