97 5.0 AWD - non-start issue - Dealer soldered fuse 13 in place ???

[ELeBlanc]

This is an ongoing issue that started with no fuel to engine. After many iterations, Dealer said fuse 13 in interior fuse box was issue but was not blown. They said it was "fixed" yesterday by replacing fuse 13 but when I came to pick it up it wouldnt start so left it with dealer. They said replacing fuse box and wires on 1997 not a practical option. Apparently some issue maintaining connection at fuse 13 so solder was their answer. Now if fuse 13 blows will need solder removed. Not even sure how practical this is with all the connections / electronics in fuse box. Maybe when fuse 13 blows truck becomes too difficult to repair??

I'm not mechanical at all but I'm not expecting anyone to reply back that this was a reasonable idea...

 

[Turdle]

I'm trying to figure out how soldering in a fuse was easier than replacing the female lugs inside the fuse box.?

 

[BKennedy]

The more I have dealt with dealerships, the more I realize that the mechanics that couldn't hold down a job anywhere else work there. They used to be the best in the business, now they are the bottom of the barrel. My brother has worked in the service side of GM dealerships for 30 years, 25+ at one dealership. I asked him if anyone there could identify what years a 6 lug 14 bolt axle I found came out of by pictures of the brakes and ABS modules. He couldn't find anyone who could at his dealership.

Soldering is not the correct fix. Like Turdle said, replacing the lugs is a simple job. I have replaced and added lugs to fuse boxes over the years and it was never difficult. The lugs are universal based upon which type of fuse is used.

 

[masospaghetti]

Every time I get a repair quote from a shop, or hear about someone else's visit to a shop, reminds me why I decided to work on cars to begin with.

Soldering the fuse is a ridiculous fix for your problem. What's next, will they weld your brake rotors to the hubs if a stud breaks?

 

[J_C]

That's nuts. Do not take your vehicle back to them. If it were a newer vehicle worth more money, I'd even consider suing them in small claims to get another shop to fix this absurd "solution" unless they told you what they were going to do and you approved it.

You can still pull the lugs out and put new ones in, if there isn't a molten mess of plastic, but now that it's been soldered, it is probably not worth the bother to just try cleaning the contacts which would've been my original recommendation, to just take a piece of very fine grit sandpaper, folded over a sliver (fuse contact width) cut out of a credit card/etc and cleaning the contacts like that, then for good measure (optional) spray a squirt of electrical contact cleaner and repeat with a piece of notebook paper folded over the sliver of credit card.

Next I'd consider why it happened. Did it get wet? Insects? Ham-fisted mechanic bent them? Something like a dental pick can be used to bend them back together tighter. A short elsewhere could blow the fuse but should not have damaged the contacts, unless this was a generic, grossly over-spec Chinese fuse. Many are known to potentially be so much higher current to blow than rated, that it could account for damaging the contacts. IIRC there's even youtube videos about this issue with generic fuses.

I'm confused, previously you stated it was fuse 19 and now 13 is soldered, was it both of them they were fiddling with?

Hard to give more advice not knowing what is going on with these two fuses, but if they have destroyed the fuse box slot from soldering (molten deformed plastic) then the most practical thing to do is just cut the wires at the back, solder some more wire on them to extend the length out to where it is more easily accessible, and use a stand alone fuse holder.

If this is a high current circuit, well really any of them are in this context, I'd make sure to get a major brand fuse holder rated for at least the fuse amperage, not some generic chinese junk.

 

[bronchole]

I am going to guess that in the process of soldering the fuse in that they melted the fuse holder housing. If that is the case you could solder on an "in-line" type fuse holder to the tabs. At least the fuse will be replaceable at that point.

BTW, if that pair of fuse contacts was contaminated to the point where the fuse was making poor contact, it is likely that there are more at that point. Probably a good idea to do the sand paper trick that J_C suggested to the other fuses. Maybe even use a little bit of Dielectric grease when putting them back in. Personally, I would also do the fuse box under the hood and the relays at the passenger front of the engine compartment, just over the frame rail.

 

[J_C]

Okay, looking at an older ('96) fuse diagram, I see that #13 is not just brakes (which I mentioned in my prior post then edited out because it was wrong info) but rather a 15Amp, PCM system, stoplamps, 4 wheel drive, anti-lock brake, speed control, trailer tow.

The question in my mind is whether one of the above is drawing too much current or the fuse contacts were in bad shape from another cause. If it's the former and now soldered together, it'll just take the same event to put you back worse than you started.

 

[masospaghetti]

Okay, looking at an older ('96) fuse diagram, I see that #13 is not just brakes (which I mentioned in my prior post then edited out because it was wrong info) but rather a 15Amp, PCM system, stoplamps, 4 wheel drive, anti-lock brake, speed control, trailer tow.

The question in my mind is whether one of the above is drawing too much current or the fuse contacts were in bad shape from another cause. If it's the former and now soldered together, it'll just take the same event to put you back worse than you started.

"Trailer tow" -- does this mean the trailer brake light connector? I know this connector often gets packed full of road debris and can cause problems. The symptom I've heard most commonly is the high mounted brake light not working. This is an easy thing to check first.

Maybe try disconnecting the ABS motor pack and cruise control actuator to rule out internal shorts in these two assemblies.

 

[J_C]

^ Best guess is yes, that's the only trailer listing I see on it, but i could be wrong, there's also the under-hood box, fuse #7 that reads "Trailer park LP and trailer stop LP"

This pic is from the '96 manual but I just checked the '97 and fuse 13 handles all the same things. I'd take this to the fuse box to see if the rest look correct in placement and current rating, not knowing what other antics the shop might've been up to.

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

When you learn to fix your cars yourself, you become smarter than anyone at a "stealership"!

 

[masospaghetti]

^ Best guess is yes, that's the only trailer listing I see on it, but i could be wrong, there's also the under-hood box, fuse #7 that reads "Trailer park LP and trailer stop LP"

This pic is from the '96 manual but I just checked the '97 and fuse 13 handles all the same things. I'd take this to the fuse box to see if the rest look correct in placement and current rating, not knowing what other antics the shop might've been up to.

View attachment 176861

Based on that manual it looks like a shorted stop lamp bulb would cause that fuse to blow.

For the OP: Any issues with the brake lights, or the center high-mounted brake light?

 

[TedJ]

There is a really disturbing lack of diagnostic ability and repair skill being displayed here by the dealer.

It sounds like at this point the damage has been done to the fuse box regardless if it was the original problem or not. The best practical repair for this is simply to get a inline fuse holder (recommended: FHAC0002ZXJ - ATO - FHAC Series - Automotive and Commercial Vehicle Fuse Holders Fuse Blocks Fuseholders and Fuse Accessories - Littelfuse), pull the fuse box down, cut the wires to the bad fuse location in the fuse box, and splice them to the fuse holder. If the fuse is fed from a common distribution rail in the box, tap the wire that feeds it and cut only the wire on the load side.

If there is wiring that has been tampered with in the dash during the installation of aftermarket equipment I would start there. There is no telling what circuit someone tapped into for aftermarket accessories. A lot of times they will stab around with a test light and grab the first hot wire they find. Anything that isn't factory, cut it out and clean it up. Then you can work from a wiring diagram and know there isn't unknown variables beyond what the factory intended.

 

[ELeBlanc]

Ooops - made a careless mistake. This is fuse 19 in the interior fuse box which covers: radio nose capacitor, ignition coil and PCM power diode.

I see this at wiringproducts.com for about $7 - is this right?

18 Gauge Inline Watertight ATC Fuse Holder - Part #: ATFH18C

Inline Watertight ATO/ATC Fuse Holder - 18 Gauge - Inline fuse holder for ATO/ATC fuses. Watertight body and cover keep your fuse away from the elements. Available in different wire sizes from 18 gauge to 10 gauge, all have 12 inch wire loop lead.

 

[donalds]

fuse box & fuses

 

[J_C]

Ooops - made a careless mistake. This is fuse 19 in the interior fuse box which covers: radio nose capacitor, ignition coil and PCM power diode.

I see this at wiringproducts.com for about $7 - is this right?

18 Gauge Inline Watertight ATC Fuse Holder - Part #: ATFH18C

Inline Watertight ATO/ATC Fuse Holder - 18 Gauge - Inline fuse holder for ATO/ATC fuses. Watertight body and cover keep your fuse away from the elements. Available in different wire sizes from 18 gauge to 10 gauge, all have 12 inch wire loop lead.

Fuse 19 is a 25A (amp) fused circuit so 18 gauge is too thin a wire, as is 16 ga. I would sooner get the 14 gauge version but since they don't have that, the 12 gauge will work too, just be a little stiffer to twist together to solder.

 

[ELeBlanc]

thanks. Is there some place / website you know of that would have a 14 gauge? Is this the kind of thing I can find at PepBoys or Autozone, etc? Here is lack of knowledge - I figured bigger numbers would be thicker..

I'm thinking the soonest I can get this installed I should. I'm also assuming any half way decent mechanic could do this?

Because it has been broken down for 4 weeks, the inspection on the explorer expired 12/31/2019. So as soon as I get back to NYC its going right to my mechanic for an inspection. I could have them do this fuse 19 work then...

 

[J_C]

I see something suitable at Autozone or Pepboys. If they're convenient then I'd go there because they are about as cheap as shipping alone, anywhere else except the generic junk on ebay or if you have amazon prime:

https://www.autozone.com/electrical...s/bussmann-atc-fuse-holder-with-cover/32415_0

https://www.pepboys.com/littelfuse-heavy-duty-ato-fuse-holder/product/8962328

Amazon, it could take a while to weed through everything they have and reject the generic brands. Here's one, comes with a 30A fuse which I'd just use because it's close enough, unless you have another 25A fuse lying around. The more conservative recommendation would be get the correct 25A fuse for it... up to you, it might be wiser to do that, or swap a 25A from another circuit into this one (and use the 30A on that circuit) for the time being in case you do have something shorting out and want the correct current limit in place.

https://www.amazon.com/Littelfuse-0FHA0030XP-Carded-Inline-Holder/dp/B000COA2ZW/

Yes any halfway decent mechanic or shop could do this, but this would be more of a non-dealership repair, a dealership may want to only use OEM parts and replace the whole fuse box, but it wouldn't hurt to call them and ask.

This should be soldered + heatshrink tubing, or high-quality crimped with an insulator sleeve over it, not electrical tape. I mean after they heatshrink or tube it, if they wanted to use electrical tape to bind it out of the way that's a different story but tape alone is not an acceptable long-term insulator.