97' mountaineer 5.0 special exhaust question

[CDW6212R]

Jamie, you know I was only poking the bear right? I've had a pair of mufflers for ages to put on, but I haven't begun the project yet. I'm trying to not buy the other supercharger before I get started too, I need to move and have space to work on things first.

 

[410Fortune]

Of course! Hahahaha
I’ve done many setups over the years. Using what we had in the shelf or full
Mandrel bent pieces and custom from headers back.
I built a couple of y pipes and kept the stock sohc muffler… those did not work so well.
Resonates noise in the interior one ranger even had a nasty “slapping noise” with the y pipe i built. To get the v8 conversions done and driving we often chince on the exhaust a bit due to cheap budgets. Given a couple hundred bucks and a couple weeks to order the right Muffler, the simple dual in single out setup works very well and sounds good. Can always go back and re do with true duals if more power/ Sound is needed!
Two mufflers always better than one with the v8! But simple plumbing and allowing the muffler to scavenge the two banks together is a great way to go for near stock 5.0 converted trucks.
I had 96 explorer with tmh, e303 cam, dual in single out flow pro muffler, 2.5” tailpipe. Sounded great, good
Low end torque!
Bronco ii with tmh, no cam, dual in single out flow pro muffler and 3” tailpipe. Lost some low end torque with the 3” tail on that truck. The difference can be felt from drivers seat. I think a 2.75” tailpipe would be ideal, but no shops carry 2.75’ pipe or dyes!!

Can always poke fun I do not mind, I have thick skin and I can tell when you guys are joking like a campfire chat

 

[CDW6212R]

The stock exhaust is like a kid sucking a thick milkshake through a straw. The computer is good but if you open up the exhaust enough(to stock Mustang 302 levels(two mufflers, tailpipes, and real headers)), then the engine will run lean. That's the loss of bottom end power, it's not the fault of the bigger pipes. It's like a carburetor, it just needs more fuel, and that's the PCM tuning we avoid.

Those exhaust parts are heavy too, I've weighed a few mufflers and cat pipes, I think they cut back on those to save weight too.

 

[99rangert]

Just curious, when did you order them? I've been waiting since Dec 2022

 

[99rangert]

Reading looks like a year for TM headers to get shipped, u haven’t received yours yet? I ordered march 2023, Bob communicated with me till September 10 then went unresponsive to calls/text. I’m getting nervous and missed PayPal refund (180-days) so got on forums to see what others saying. But sounds like he at least eventually gets them done, just not even close to 8-12 weeks.

 

[JOHNNYFARGO68]

June 2022 it was worth the wait truck is awesome but use remflex gaskets

 

[97Sandbox]

The computer is good but if you open up the exhaust enough(to stock Mustang 302 levels(two mufflers, tailpipes, and real headers)), then the engine will run lean. That's the loss of bottom end power, it's not the fault of the bigger pipes. It's like a carburetor, it just needs more fuel, and that's the PCM tuning we avoid.

Is this a situation that can be remedied by a tune alone, or are higher flow injectors and a tune needed? I expect I will be running into this on my Mounty once I make headers and start tinkering with the rest of the exhaust.

 

[CDW6212R]

Is this a situation that can be remedied by a tune alone, or are higher flow injectors and a tune needed? I expect I will be running into this on my Mounty once I make headers and start tinkering with the rest of the exhaust.

The PCM can handle many upgrades without changing the injectors. The 19's in it are able to handle another 50hp easily, which is really hard to reach in these. So you'll be fine for quite a while, the tuning you can put off until you perceive a symptom like being lean or roughness, rpm hunting etc. It usually takes a big head or cam change, or serious exhaust work, to notice that.

 

[Blown]

Is this a situation that can be remedied by a tune alone, or are higher flow injectors and a tune needed? I expect I will be running into this on my Mounty once I make headers and start tinkering with the rest of the exhaust.

The PCM can handle many upgrades without changing the injectors. The 19's in it are able to handle another 50hp easily, which is really hard to reach in these. So you'll be fine for quite a while, the tuning you can put off until you perceive a symptom like being lean or roughness, rpm hunting etc. It usually takes a big head or cam change, or serious exhaust work, to notice that.

The stock exhaust is like a kid sucking a thick milkshake through a straw. The computer is good but if you open up the exhaust enough(to stock Mustang 302 levels(two mufflers, tailpipes, and real headers)), then the engine will run lean. That's the loss of bottom end power, it's not the fault of the bigger pipes. It's like a carburetor, it just needs more fuel, and that's the PCM tuning we avoid.

Those exhaust parts are heavy too, I've weighed a few mufflers and cat pipes, I think they cut back on those to save weight too.

I have been tuning these for years.. I disagree that the loss of torque down low rpm with a larger pipe is due to the tune. Don, you put me onto "Scavaging" and not backpressure as being more important. I see no reason that the EEV/computer would make for a low rpm lack of fuel which in turn would cause the loss of torque at lower RPM with a larger exhaust. It is not the tune, it's the pipe diameters and resulting changes in scavenging.

The computer in these is great! In closed loop, it's tuning abilities is plus or minus 25% fuel. That is the system that keeps it as close to stoic as it can for mileage and emissions. Open loop uses a fuel table and is used for performance, mashing the skinny pedal. The Table has Load on the "Y" axis, RPM on the "X" axis and AF ratio in the cells. That table can be changed and I am running 11.4 at high boost, but there is plenty of fuel there without modifying the table for many applications.

This is the stock Open Loop Fuel Table. Notice 12.471:1 fuel at high load and 2,000RPM, that's plenty of fuel: