A Modest proposal for those 5R55E Owners - EPC Solenoid Replacement Proposal

[dogfriend]

From the sounds of it, it's not too difficult, I'd just need a GOOD set of instructions, that's all. I'm completely green when it comes to transmissions, but I'm a machine repairman by trade, so I'm not scared, I've just never done it before.

-Joe

I have looked through the Ford Service Manual, and you can replace any of the solenoids including the EPC without removing the valve body. So, it is only a little bit more work than doing a filter change.

Nice picture in this thread by Robert:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62998&highlight=shift+solenoid

I posted the Service Manual instructions in this thread:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75634&highlight=shift+solenoid

 

[BrooklynBay]

Both of the above links were the same.

 

[dogfriend]

Both of the above links were the same.

Oops, sorry. I fixed it now.

 

[Bent Bolt]

Hey Bent Bolt a quick Q and I will delete this as off topic, but do you know what upped the torque rating on the 4R75W from the 4R70W... I mean what internal changes? I might want to investigate adding that as a mod to the 4R70W Diary if it is backwards compatible.

The biggest upgrade was the needle bearing between the fornt and rear sun gears was made bigger-- thicker, actually. As a result, the front sun gear is slightly shorter and maybe the rear as well. The parts upgrade is backwards compatible--- as an assy. You will get a new sun gear and bearing. The planetary gear ratio might have changed too, I'd have to confirm that tho.

Also, the torque converter seems to have been upgraded as well. 4R70W and 4R75W have differant part numbers for the TC.
Other than an input shaft speed sensor, they look very similair inside and out.

 

[Glacier991]

Thanks, you wouldn't have P/N's for that assembly would you ?

 

[Bent Bolt]

When these parts finally reach the market, will Ford dealers sell them, or will they always stay aftermarket? If that would be the case, then how would you know if you are getting the newer, improved version compared to the older, troublesome version? Would places like Transmission Parts USA sell them if this company decides to choose them as a distributor?

All warrenty repairs MUST have Ford part installed. Period.

Retail repairs, Ford parts are highly desireable due to every repair is warrentied for 1 year/20,000kms across Canada and the USA. If that repair fails within that timeframe and Ford parts were NOT used, it can cause problems if the customer takes that vehicle to another dealer. Most of the time it comes down to the fact that the labour is guarentied (ie was diagnosed/installed properly), cust eats the cost of the aftermarket part. It can be a BIG headache.
If Ford parts were used--as is %99 of the time-- then no problems. If the part fails, then parts and labour is covered.

That said, I have and do use aftermarket parts from time to time. Ford parts can be very expensive-- especialy clutches. Ford can be upwards of $1000.00 for a F-150 or $500 for a Luk or Dynapack. On the other hand, NO--NO--NO-- aftermarket rebuilt starters,alternators,waterpumps,ect. I'd use them on my own vehicle but not for a customer.

 

[Bent Bolt]

Thanks, you wouldn't have P/N's for that assembly would you ?

Yup, I can get them tomorrow.

 

[BrooklynBay]

I think the Ford dealers where you live have stricter policies about parts compared to where I live. There was a CV joint, and rack and pinion rebuilder which all of the auto parts stores used for years "including the Ford dealer". I spoke to the rebuilder, and he told me to ask a local Ford dealer to pull out a box with a rack and pinion. It was one of his boxes, and not a genuine Ford rack and pinion. The reason I brought this up was not to knock the dealer, but to say that certain items are not remanufactured, or rebuilt by Ford (at least where I live). I was very surprised when I found this out. The customers think they are paying double the price to get a genuine Ford remanufactured part.

 

[Bent Bolt]

I think the Ford dealers where you live have stricter policies about parts compared to where I live. There was a CV joint, and rack and pinion rebuilder which all of the auto parts stores used for years "including the Ford dealer". I spoke to the rebuilder, and he told me to ask a local Ford dealer to pull out a box with a rack and pinion. It was one of his boxes, and not a genuine Ford rack and pinion. The reason I brought this up was not to knock the dealer, but to say that certain items are not remanufactured, or rebuilt by Ford (at least where I live). I was very surprised when I found this out. The customers think they are paying double the price to get a genuine Ford remanufactured part.

You are very correct. Actually, I don't think Ford builts very many parts anymore. Mostly 3rd party manufacterers. Buy a clutch over the Ford parts counter and you will find a box with Ford part number and a clutch with Luk stamped on it.
Fusion has Mazda transmissions in them-- has Mazda stamped right on it and Freestyle AWD have Volvo cast into the rear diff assy.
But they all have a Ford part number attached to them and that make it gold!!

 

[BrooklynBay]

I once bought a remanufactured transmission from Ford which they told me came from their division in Kentucky. It took 29 days to order. I found out that I would have gotten a full refund if it would have been 30 days. I also had to contact the main branch in Michigan to put out a complaint because the dealer just kept telling me that it was on order. I later found out from somebody else that the dealer gets reimbursed for the entire amount when somebody else comes in with a vehicle under the warranty to do a transmission repair. The dealer writes in the warranty that the other customer gets a rebuilt transmission (when they only came in for a transmission repair). So they basically get the transmission for free. Is there any truth to this, or was somebody pulling me around for a month? BTW, the transmission had a year warranty, and was defective, but they didn't help me with the warranty. I ended up having to open it up, and rebuild it myself. It was an 88, but had 86, and 87 hard parts except for the 2 solenoid valve body which started to be used in 88.

 

[Glacier991]

Ford parts can be very expensive-- especialy clutches. Ford can be upwards of $1000.00 for a F-150 or $500 for a Luk or Dynapack. On the other hand, NO--NO--NO-- aftermarket rebuilt starters,alternators,waterpumps,ect. I'd use them on my own vehicle but not for a customer.

There are some places I refuse to use aftermarket. I am not a believer in aftermarket remanufactured trans pumps for example. I believe in NEW FORD, period. And as for trans frictions, I think more and more that FORD parts there are more than "good enough" maybe equal or superior in some cases. Esp in the heavier duty lines of trannies (4R70W for example).

(sidebar ps) Thanks Bent Bolt, I'd like to do an addendum for "later learned ideas" in the 4R70W Rebuild Diary I am working on. I may even see if the buyer wants that upgrade.50 Ft. lbs, or 8% increase in torque handling is not bad for such a simple addition and he wants it for offroad.

 

[Glacier991]

Man how this thread morfs ! <g> But we are sparking good interchange of ideas.

Anyway I just heard from my company contact. I am trying to get permission to tell you all who the company is, you will be impressed. (But I digress)

I told him I might be able to get 25 folks to install the new design solenoid. Apparently that was great news to him, because he is going to try and set up a high level meeting within the company to go ahead with what we have been talking about, and not wait. I should have some news soon on this.

Should this program get the green light, the solenoids will be distributed free of charge to participants. You WILL be required to sign a waiver of liability. But knowing the company and knowing the problems, I'd do this in a heartbeat. I'll keep you all posted as I know more.

 

[dogfriend]

I'm guessing BW.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Does this company have only one redesigned part, or did they make a limited production of a few types just in case the one they are sending everybody is defective? In this case, they could try plan B, and send out those.

 

[97greenmonster]

What happens if we dont live near you, how are we going to sign the waver? And get the part? Do you think i should have a tranny shop put it in to be on the safe side. what an hour of work, max?

 

[zhanx]

What happens if we dont live near you, how are we going to sign the waver? And get the part? Do you think i should have a tranny shop put it in to be on the safe side. what an hour of work, max?

sign it and send it back i would think. greenie you worry to much. I rebuild my own vb with a book and a prayer to glacier (plus a few im's) and it when fairly well other than i forgot how to read. this will be like changing the tranny filter.

 

[97greenmonster]

Alright. Yea. im paranoid about these things, i dont want to have to rebuild my tranny if i screw up.

 

[Glacier991]

I'll do a photo thread of a replacement - maybe I can let Dogfriend me photo his replacement as I do not have a 2nd Gen. It truly is as easy as dropping the pan, unplugging the EPC solenoid, removing a bracket with ONE bolt, pulling out the old EPC, lubricating the O rings and inserting the new, replacing the bracket, plugging in the solenoid, putting the pan back on and replacing the fluid lost during the pan drop.

 

[dogfriend]

I'll do a photo thread of a replacement - maybe I can let Dogfriend me photo his replacement as I do not have a 2nd Gen. It truly is as easy as dropping the pan, unplugging the EPC solenoid, removing a bracket with ONE bolt, pulling out the old EPC, lubricating the O rings and inserting the new, replacing the bracket, plugging in the solenoid, putting the pan back on and replacing the fluid lost during the pan drop.

We can work something out - especially if you have access to a lift.

That would make the photos much easier to take.

 

[gijoecam]

Heck, if it's that easy, I'm not worried then... I thought it was going to involve pulling the valve body too...

Will there be any noticable performance difference with the new solenoid, or will it work just like the OEM one, only lasting longer?