ABS - Who needs it?

[my pos mounty]

What I said was that the computer that operates the ABS system, whether or not you want to believe it, will out brake a human every single time (when the system is operating properly).
It can vary the braking force applied front/rear, which you can not.
It can pump the brakes several times a second, faster than humanly possible.
The ABS system is designed to stop the tires from locking up. Locking up a tire actually causes it to GAIN SPEED, because it has lost traction/friction. The only way you (or I, or any human) will know the tire is locking up, is by the screeching noise or the sliding sensation, at that point is has already lost traction/fricition and has sped up, thus taking LONGER to stop.

 

[Trolling]

holy crap, this thread is entertaining..

 

[wood1]

At our previous address we lived on a hill and it was a high traffic area. The pavement was bumpy kind of like a dirt road gets, almost corrugated. If I was going a little fast so as to not get ran into from behind (happened once in my stang) and tried to slow for the driveway the front right would bounce and loose contact with the asphalt and cause the ABS would kick in. The truck would not slow down properly resulting in my having to over-shoot my driveway.

I was (and am still) sure that if it weren't for the ABS I would have been able to slow down and pull in even with the bouncing tire. My logic was that when the tire was loosing contact and that brake was being cycled by the ABS over and over (more than one bump) the rest of the brakes/tires would have been stopping me rather than just getting the annoying derrrrrr, derrrrrr sound. I never had a problem doing exactly the same maneuver with my '87 stang (no ABS), work vehicles (newer ABS systems), wife's car at the time (non-ABS 4 door sedan). I thought that the front shocks were worn out and replaced them, seemed to make no difference.

That more what you were looking for?

 

[safn1949]

Ok,listen up......in a big truck with an empty 53 ft trailer and a panic stop with no ABS you are screwed the trailer is going to come around and also lock the brakes.I know,I have crashed a truck without ABS,it was on dry pavement and I was distracted.When I slammed on the brakes it was like being on ice,I just kept on gettin' it and boom.

With ABS the other day in heavy traffic I was cut off and leaned on the brakes....and stopped very quickly with no skid marks.I was a GM mechanic and went to ABS school where we drove a brand new caddy full blast towards a dumpster,applying brakes when we chickened out...amazing stops.

Girls car,05 Impala in MN snow.ABS and traction control = no problems.Slow down dude,that's my advice.

Also hit a 1 ton Dodge pickup head on 10 years ago.The driver and passenger didn't have their seatbelts on.Had to cut both of them out of the truck.

A) Driver = not a scratch because he had an airbag.

B) Passenger = no airbag and a really bad deal,the poor guy got creamed.

Real life here pal,I drive 100,000+ miles a year.

 

[olskool reddevil]

 

[95ExpLim]

In keeping with the title of this thread...I'd have to say -everyone.

I've just had the usual experience of one wheel on wet pavement, the others on dry type stuff. No biggies.

Until I develop the skill and reflexes to match what ABS does I'm going to keep mine on and operating... I won't hold my breath.

 

[IZwack]

Well, in an attempt to put things to rest, I'll answer your questions from the first post:

Is anyone besides some corporate lawyer at ford impressed by ABS? .

Yes, I and along with a few others who have posted are satisfied/impressed with ABS.

Anyone besides me consider them dangerous and wish they were never invented or at least only offered as an option for the driving impaired.

I'm sure others have the same opinion as you do but I can only speak from my experience - of which, the bottom line is, ABS, when working properly, is not dangerous and helps the driver.

When I step on the brakes, I want brakes! I don't want some ABS module telling me "sorry, no brakes for you! too slippery! I'll decide for myself when and how hard I step on the brakes. I'm sure it's one of those things that looks good on paper but doesn't work in real life.

Then by all means, if you hate your ABS then disable/remove/bypass your ABS system and lets move on.

 

[Rudy602]

Iz, what needs to be put to rest? - and what's keeping you from moving on? I guess I'll settle for your opinion though i'd prefer your experiences.

wood1- yeah that's it even though it doesn't have to agree!

Is it my inflammatory tone that has a few of you all riled up? I'm just having a little fun at the same time as trying to tap this forum for some info. Isn't that what we're all doing here? Aren't we all on the same page no matter if we like ABS or PMS or QRS?

Trolling has it right, Damn this thread is entertaining! Can't we have some fun while we learn from each other without anyone getting pissed? When was the last time any thread was more entertaining and less informative? Actually, I've learned a great deal from members related experiences and hope to hear more, From either side. Thanks again.

 

[95ExpLim]

Rudy I'm not riled up... this whole thing is sorta interesting to ponder while you look at on-coming traffic.

I wonder what the position of our insurance carriers would be if we sent them a letter stating "I've disabled the factory ABS system that is installed in the car I have insured with you"...liability wise that is?

I think they would bail on us quick like.

 

[IZwack]

You just sound unsatisfied with what people have posted -- your original post was asking for opinions and didnt mention anything about experiences. But when we gave opinions, you wanted experiences.

Is anyone besides some corporate lawyer at ford impressed by ABS? Anyone besides me consider them dangerous and wish they were never invented or at least only offered as an option for the driving impaired. When I step on the brakes, I want brakes! I don't want some ABS module telling me "sorry, no brakes for you! too slippery! I'll decide for myself when and how hard I step on the brakes. I'm sure it's one of those things that looks good on paper but doesn't work in real life.

vs

This was never meant to be a pissing contest, we all know that unreasonable people can disagree, but reasonable people can disagree without being disagreeable. We've all heard the research and statistics but this forum allows for real world experience to be shared, not just some statistics that can be manipulated to say whatever whoever has the most to gain from them want them to say. I wish everyone who has ever had any experience with their ABS would take the time to explain what they experienced - not to be on one side or the other, but just to say what they experienced for themself. It seems the best way to learn is to share personal experience, not statistics. I must admit to a fondness for the occasional sarcasm, though so please lets not let it get too dry. Thanks again

What exactly are we going to learn from individual experiences? If you get 20 people to speak about a similar experience, then isnt the result of that encroaching on what a "statistic" is? Because as you increase the sample size, your results should very closely match the statistics. And if that happens, then you've just wasted your time because you could have come to the same conclusion by just looking at the statistics - that is of course, unless you wanted a blog in the first place.

EDIT -- oh and after you mentioned you wanted experiences, you start talking about the technicalities of state inspection and ABS - which has nothing to do with ABS performance experience from individuals.

My only concern with disabling the ABS is passing state inspection. Do they check it and can they tell? What's involved in removing that bulb behind the ABS light? 3 - 7mm screws hold the inst. panel in. Pull the bulb, done deal, ABS fixed.

 

[Rudy602]

Iz, who is "we"? I'm quite satisfied with the posts and I'll take opinions but I prefer experiences because that lets me as well as others decide for themselves, that's what we can learn from people's experiences. All we learn from an opinion or a statistic is someone's point of view - not necessarily an unbiased one. Everyone knows you can cherry pick statistics to make them say whatever you want them to say. I'm a little too old to know what a "blog" is, please enlighten me. And if I didn't follow an outline, it's because I don't have one - or an agenda, except maybe blowing off a little steam at an issue that's bugged me for a long time. I know I can learn more from other's experiences than from someone telling me what's been proven or quoting some statistic over and over. Yeah, nothing is black or white, it's all just shades of gray - ABS is good for some people sometimes and vice versa. You read the posts, right? I know the newer stuff is better but my '97 Ex is what I'm dealing with here. Why is it such an issue? Make your point and "move on" if I'm such a putz. It's as if some feel they are the self appointed guardians of the truth and must put these heretical ideas "to rest" Do you want my insurance company's number so you can "tell on me"?

"Whoever would be a free thinker, must therefore be a nonconformist" - Emerson
-Don't just drink the kool-aid, ask what's in it.

 

[IZwack]

-Don't just drink the kool-aid, ask what's in it.

WuwuwuWAIT - you include that quote and yet you dismiss the discussion of ABS fundamentals and operation, things that theoretically "look good on paper", and statistics? How ironic.

Your right Rudy, its time for me to move on - have fun with this thread.

 

[Rudy602]

iz, the statistics are the kool-aid, don't just accept what's "proven" - ask questions, ask the people who've been there. I don't dismiss the discussion of the fundamentals and statistics, but when they fly in the face of my personal experience, I'm looking elsewhere, that's why I asked for corroboration from other's experiences. Not really that bizarre is it? Statistics are like knowledge and experience is like wisdom. Younger people tend to have a lot of knowledge and older people have more experience. One is not better than the other, just a logical progression. Knowledge gets changed to wisdom over time. Drive safe, watch out for that ABS, it'll burn you.

 

[Mbrooks420]

The ABS will only burn you if it isn't working properly, like yours. Otherwise it could very well save your life.

 

[Trolling]

ABS?

 

[storlied]

LMAO!


Anyways, Alright Rudy... Cut your seatbelts out, remove your airbags, and cut every wheel speed sensors... while we're at it.. lets remove both bumpers and your windshield. How about we just remove the brakes completely?

You are drawing this out way too much, this is ridiculous. You need to stop.
I've had experiences when ABS pissed me off, and where ABS had my truck stopped not even 1/4 of an inch away from a pole when I Know for a fact I would have been wrapped around it if I had my ABS de-activated.

I live in Alaska out of all places, try that on for size... our roads are already crap, add ice, black ice, freezing rain.. ect.. why not throw in some fog and heavy snowfall for zero visibility on a 361 mile/6 hour trip. Yay, that's always fun. I KNOW first hand how driving on absolute **** can be like. ABS has saved me a lot of damage, pain, money, ect... while at the same time, has gotten me into a few messes. It's not perfect, but it has it's application under certain/most circumstances.

What exactly is your problem here? You sit there and second guess the by-pass I told you about and yet you just wanna pull the bulb... ignorance isn't an excuse and that's exactly what they will tell you when you get inspected. With a bulb pulled, doesn't mean the problem is gone. You think just because your light isn't on they won't know? This is the age of computers my friend and it will tell them every single thing you're trying to hide. Do it right and make an actual bypass, you can turn it back on that way. And I hope to god you turn it back on for winter use, watch as you get into an accident because you refused to solve your ABS issue, guess what... you'll definitely be more prone for an accident without it, and have fun with getting sued once they found out you purposely got rid of it simply because you don't like it.

Here... try this... when winter hits... go to a big empty parking lot.. and buy some cones and some paint. Do the bypass like I explained and come back here with your own personal results.

I want stopping distance with/without ABS.
I also want a detailed explanation of how dodging an obstacle went with/without ABS.

Can you do that? I'm serious, do some tests and see what happens. Good luck trying to regain control of the rear of your truck as it swings right back around at you.

Hell, go try it now. Your ABS should be turned off if the light is on. Find some gravel road and slam on the brakes... see how fun that gets. Pretend a moose just walked right out in front of you. Which actually just happened to me.. I managed to dodge it.

Question; how would you react to a moose walking right out in front of you on ice? You'd most likely hit the moose with ABS off if you had to dodge it and you used your brakes.

I don't know about the rest of you but gas is more of my friend than brakes are in the winter, it all depends on how you're gonna attack the situation.

This whole thread has my thoughts all jumbled up because you just want to fight every single person who comments. Is there anything you'll listen to?

 

[unclemeat]

Rudy

It is not your inflamitory tone, it is your absolute ignorance for reality. We get it you FEEL like the ABS is less effective than manual brake control. But that is your FEELING. It is not reality, it is not science, and for most of us it defies common sence.

The bottom line is that ABS is superior to manual braking for control and safety, and based on what you have posted you should have your ABS checked by a qualified mechanic, because you are the people that ABS helps the most.

 

[Mbrooks420]

They won't need a fancy computer to tell the bulb is out. All they need to do is turn the key on. When all the other lights come on, and not the ABS, they will want to change the bulb. When the light is full on, they will want to start with wheel speed sensors. You asked for mechanically inclined experiences with a similar vehicle, and you got it. It's just not what you want. You want people that had YOUR experiences.

I think I am going to try and disable mine later, although I am almost positive what the test results will be. Maybe when I am less hung over. We closed the bar last night, and boy, I am feeling it.

 

[Rudy602]

trolling, is that video supposed to show a car without ABS or a car with ABS that just kept going?

storlied, what is it I need to stop? What did the world do before ABS? I learned to drive without it so why all of a sudden can I not do without it? I'm pretty sure winter around here looks a lot like it does out there unless you live in Barrow and why is it "my way or the highway"? I'm not a fan of the "slam on your brakes" way of driving, for those who are ABS may be helpful. I can only go by my own experience and any I can get from others. I know I almost got killed because I had ABS, I don't care who "believes" it. Wood1's post about missing his driveway helped me to understand how and why it may have happened - like a missing piece of a puzzle. Yelliing at me like I'm a little kid to "just shut up and eat your broccoli" doesn't help alot. I appreciate your advise on how to do the cutout switch and probably will on both EX's & some trucks, too - but not this week, I need a sticker now. I don't want to fight anyone, I never have, why do you say that? Obviously everyone doesn't agree, I didn't say something like engines don't need oil. And thanks to uncle meat for your psycic evaluation of my driving skills. Who is it who is meanspirited here?

 

[Mbrooks420]

Its called "advancement". Should we still be driving crank start Model A's? Those got people around just fine. What about 4 drum brakes, and bias tires? People "lived" just fine with those. Hell, why don't we just ride horses?

And just an FYI, your 97 isn't an AWD.