Another head gasket thread

[natenkiki2004]

3 weeks without fuel in the injectors? Yea, they could be stuck closed or open, leaking too much fuel. I forget, have you pulled plugs after running the engine and then letting it sit? Were any wet? If they're all bone dry then the injectors are probably just closed. You've said your budget is tight but how about time? Would it be out of the question to yank injectors from the 93, just to test? Having them out for an hour or two won't hurt. I'd still suggest sticking a drop or two of oil into the basket, just to keep them moist inside. When I did mine, I used 2-cycle oil, something thin that mixes (gets washed away) with gas easily.

 

[MindBender0001]

Use a long extension or screwdriver or piece of wood..spare nipples are capped on the vacuum tree? Vacuum line on the tb??

Last check..look at the wiring on the injectors all on one side.each should have a independent hot wire BUT all the grounds should connect all on one side(batch fire)..its possible the wiring harness is from a cali model, which could be SEFI..but if so it should have had a cam sensor and egr..also I believe regular 93 do have a cam sensor but not SEFI or egr..your 92 should have batch but no cam sensor, the wiring for the injectors ""should"" be same for regular 93 and 92.

Hope any of that makes sense

I've done the screwdriver thing before, but I never thought the injectors would be loud enough but I'll try it tomorrow. Nothing on the tree is open. Yup, line is on the TB.

I didn't run into any EGR parts or cam sensor on either rig. Without a fuel pressure gauge, is there any way to check the regulator (besides pulling the hose and looking for fuel)?

 

[jd4242]

I've done the screwdriver thing before, but I never thought the injectors would be loud enough but I'll try it tomorrow. Nothing on the tree is open. Yup, line is on the TB.

I didn't run into any EGR parts or cam sensor on either rig. Without a fuel pressure gauge, is there any way to check the regulator (besides pulling the hose and looking for fuel)?

They are loud..

You can hook a tester up to the Schrader valve right next to fpr..parts store rent them if you dont have one

 

[MindBender0001]

3 weeks without fuel in the injectors? Yea, they could be stuck closed or open, leaking too much fuel. I forget, have you pulled plugs after running the engine and then letting it sit? Were any wet? If they're all bone dry then the injectors are probably just closed. You've said your budget is tight but how about time? Would it be out of the question to yank injectors from the 93, just to test? Having them out for an hour or two won't hurt. I'd still suggest sticking a drop or two of oil into the basket, just to keep them moist inside. When I did mine, I used 2-cycle oil, something thin that mixes (gets washed away) with gas easily.

When I got home tonight, I fired up the '92, just to see. Ran her for just a minute, then pulled the plugs. 1-4 were wet, 5 & 6 dry. I've got plenty of time, that's why I'm thinking just swapping injectors from the '93 (less than a year old, all done at same time...they're actually for a '94...RA messed up when they shipped them)...since the '92 only has a few minutes of run time, (normally I wouldn't even THINK of doing this) could I re-use the UIM gasket after I swap injectors?

 

[MindBender0001]

They are loud..

You can hook a tester up to the Schrader valve right next to fpr..parts store rent them if you dont have one

Nearest parts store is a 45 minute drive from my work, opposite direction of home. Like 90 min from my house. The gauge will have to wait till next payday. Might post on CL and see if there's anyone close to me that might let me borrow it....who knows....

I'm not so much looking for the pressure I have, vs weather its working or not.

CAN the FPR fail to the point that it allows too much pressure to the injectors, without fuel getting into vacuum line?

 

[natenkiki2004]

I've often wondered about the FPR failing in ways where it doesn't allow gas into the vacuum line. See, it's just a diaphragm that pulls on a spring to let more/less fuel bypass the injectors and go back to the tank. With higher RPM, there's less vacuum so the diaphragm spring shuts the flow back to the tank and lets the injectors have more fuel. Usually, the diaphragm rips and starts letting fuel into the vacuum line. But I wonder if the springs get weak or maybe the diaphragm doesn't seat right and lets excess fuel by, causing low fuel pressure.

Anywho, you likely have the better injectors, Ford revised them mid-generation to a more efficient design.

Listen to the injectors you have first, they are quite loud. If you listen carefully, you can hear them just with the hood open but you can't pinpoint which one is doing what.

Before you actually swap the injectors over, have you tested the coil pack? You said you have spark but maybe not strong enough spark. It's harder to spark in a high pressure environment, even moreso with high vapor content. Just because the plug sparks outside the engine, doesn't mean it sparks inside on the compression stroke.

If/when you do swap injectors, re-use the upper intake gasket. At this point, you're looking for a properly running engine. Once you figure out what's wrong, buy new gaskets and use them. Till then, no sense wasting $$.

 

[Sonofbumperbolt]

CAN the FPR fail to the point that it allows too much pressure to the injectors, without fuel getting into vacuum line?

Yes. I had it happen on a 96 Ranger with the 4.0 ohv. It would randomly spike very high while driving. Caused horrible economy and poor driveability.

 

[MindBender0001]

Instead of tesing the coil pack, to me it seemed easier to swap in a known good, running part.

Now that you mentioned it, I specifically remember being able to hear the injectors ticking, now I can't...maybe because I'm so focused on how it's running....or maybe they're not ticking....

Loved the explanation of how the FPR works. Kindof confirmed what I was thinking. I pulled the hose off the FPR and there was no change. In theory, the engine should have been flooded with fuel when I disconnected the vacuum line, but there was no change. I dunno, maybe I missed something. The injectors have a flow rating, but that's directly related to input pressure. If I'm getting full pump pressure (or close) at the injectors, then when they do open, more fuel comes through. No fuel in vacuum line.

A good test would be to see if I can hear the injectors. If not, swap. If I can hear them ticking, FPR? If so, swap one from '93?

 

[MindBender0001]

Also consider that the 93 has ALOT of new parts under the hood. Swapping the injectors was one of those. I was hoping to end up with two running x's, now I'm not. I'm gonna sell off what's left of the 93 when the 92 is up and running.

 

[jd4242]

Instead of tesing the coil pack, to me it seemed easier to swap in a known good, running part.

Now that you mentioned it, I specifically remember being able to hear the injectors ticking, now I can't...maybe because I'm so focused on how it's running....or maybe they're not ticking....

Loved the explanation of how the FPR works. Kindof confirmed what I was thinking. I pulled the hose off the FPR and there was no change. In theory, the engine should have been flooded with fuel when I disconnected the vacuum line, but there was no change. I dunno, maybe I missed something. The injectors have a flow rating, but that's directly related to input pressure. If I'm getting full pump pressure (or close) at the injectors, then when they do open, more fuel comes through. No fuel in vacuum line.

A good test would be to see if I can hear the injectors. If not, swap. If I can hear them ticking, FPR? If so, swap one from '93?

Its not that noticeable. .your talking about very few psi..it should be a 1:1 ratio..having it hooked up would not cause a feeling of running on less cylinders than normal. .just mpg and cruise af..seriously doubt its a fpr unless feul is in the line..hell check the line from the trans for atf also..

Also why not post a video of it running. .or even a picture of the plugs

 

[jd4242]

Also obviously if its been running bad enough for this long it has to have thrown a code..check the codes and post them..

 

[MindBender0001]

Also obviously if its been running bad enough for this long it has to have thrown a code..check the codes and post them..

I'll add that to the list for tomorrow!!!

Hhhhmmm...my phone can take video, but I don't know how to get it online.....hahahaha

I'll have my 13yo do it!!!!

I can get a pic of the plugs tomorrow as well. Do the previous links work ok?

 

[natenkiki2004]

Come to think of it, when I "tested" my FPR by disconnecting the vacuum line, it made no difference in idle. It's probably more for emissions and constant, predictable flow out of the injectors so the computer can take those constant numbers and compensate for anything out of the ordinary.

In my opinion, don't bother swapping out the FPR from the other Ex, just buy a new one. They're cheap enough, $15 or less.

 

[jd4242]

I'll add that to the list for tomorrow!!!

Hhhhmmm...my phone can take video, but I don't know how to get it online.....hahahaha

I'll have my 13yo do it!!!!

I can get a pic of the plugs tomorrow as well. Do the previous links work ok?

They didnt show up for me but im on mobile so sometimes they dont work..do you have a smart phone?? I use photobucket, if you have smart phone you can download the app and straight load them..computer you have to upload them..either way click share and copy the htt code and paste it in you post..

Videos I use youtube and copy nd past the code/link from there

 

[MindBender0001]

Took two hours, but I swapped injectors (don't have anything long enough to get to 'em to listen). Swapped the fuel tail and reg too (they came off with it). Still runs the same. I'm uploading a video of it to YouTube now. Gonna take a bit. 177MB. I'll go check codes now.

 

[MindBender0001]

Don't know if it matters or not, but only the two forward intake runners were dry. The other four seemed to be wet with oil....if I'm getting too much fuel, could it be washing oil from cylinder back up into intake? It was thin and smelled of fuel, but it was a dark brown, almost black.

 

[MindBender0001]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOr1vwlcAiM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sorry guys. The video is sideways. Now I know.

 

[natenkiki2004]

You can rotate the video in YouTube, check your Video Manager/Creator Studio (whatever they call it now).

So your fuel and spark is good. Air HAS to be good, really nothing that goes wrong there. Bringing it down to basics, I'm thinking you should get a compression tester.

 

[MindBender0001]

'92 ain't goin anywhere till I test the cylinders. Pulled codes. 111 for first set. 113, 122, 123, 157 for second set. Don't know if they were there before I started, but I did pull each of those connectors while it was running. I wiped the codes and ran her for a few minutes after and pulled codes again. 111 across the board. Pulled the valve covers. Everything intact and operating as I expected, although I was Kindof hoping that was gonna be the problem. Now it's down to rings, head gaskets, or valves just not seating. I did lap the valves, by hand, but just enough to get a nice even grey line to make SURE the old valves would seat good in the new heads...

 

[MindBender0001]

How the hell couldbrand new head gaskets fail at first crank up??!?!?! I've been over enough head job threads on here and I was VERY meticulous during the entire job. Everything was clean and free of oil, chased threads, RTV where supposed to, torqued properly. I just don't get it. So, if my compression tests good, what next? And if it's out of spec, then what? Sounds to me like either way, the heads need to come back off. If that's what needs to happen, fine. But seriously??!?! Are these engines really THAT finicky?!?!?!