Anyone re-using their axle nuts (hub nuts)

[Carguy3J]

$18 is a cheap price to pay for peace of mind. I wouldn't try to save that little bit of money. You're better off getting new ones. It's like a fan belt. They're cheap enough that you can replace them.

A.) Yeah, it's cheap if you have it. If not, that $18 may be gas or food money. Of course, safety matters. But.... If approached with common sense, I think this is a part that can SOMETIMES be reused, at least once.
Oh, and by the way, if you are paying $18 for an axle nut, I've got a bridge to sell you. No, no paperwork, but I swear I own it. Can't you see my name painted on the side?

B.) It's not always about the money. I've frequently discovered that the parts stores don't really care if you're "supposed" to replace a nut/bolt when you install the part they sold you, that doesn't include said new nut/bolt. Try buying a new axle nut at Autozone or Advance. It doesn't exist. Sometimes, but not always, and with no apparent rhyme or reason, the new/reman cv axle you buy from them MIGHT come with a new nut, or it mght not. Their response? "Dealer item, we don't carry it." Really? So you want to make the $50-$150 sale on the cv axles (that's "worth" carrying), but you can't be bothered to stock the $2 nut that industry standard practice dictates I need to change to complete the job safely? That strikes me as a really "douchey" way to do business. As for the dealer, I guess that's where you're being ripped off and getting charged $18 for a $2 nut, made out of $0.10 worth of steel. Or, is the local dealer making you buy a whole bag of the nuts? Literally and figuratively.

 

[Joe Dirt]

The axle nut is, in fact, a "crush" nut. In other words, the end of the nut/threads are intentionally deformed (crushed) so that when it is tightened on the shaft, beyond a certain point, it "stretches" or "uncrushes" the deformed part of the NUT, not the shaft. That is why, especially when the end threads of the shaft are worn/corroded/damaged it will destroy the threads on the nut.
These nuts ARE "officially" torque to yield, because they ARE stretched (the "crushed" outer end of the nut) when they are torqued down properly (I believe the proper torque is approx 230 ft-lbs.)

So if I read that correctly, once you torque to spec, you cannot ever get the same stretch, crush, or strength of grab on the cv axle shaft with a reused bolt that you get with a new one. If you're using Loctite, you're relying more on the Loctite than normal I guess? That's why I was trying to figure out if it was a stretch nut, between the 2 parts, the nut would have to be the one to stretch, not the axle shaft.

As for the $18 per bolt- ouch! I know our local truck supply parts place sells them for $3.80 each. For me, to me- and I understand the argument about money- even if it was $35 I would replace them knowing that. I would sacrifice that for my family's safety. It's a part you replace once in a lifetime for most people. Turdle's point of knowing for SURE that a new nut won't have an issue is very valid I think.

I'm not trying to change minds, I'm just trying to figure out the skinny... There really isn't a real yes/no answer anyway I don't think. I think it's all personal preference and assumption of risk.

 

[Carguy3J]

So if I read that correctly, once you torque to spec, you cannot ever get the same stretch, crush, or strength of grab on the cv axle shaft with a reused bolt that you get with a new one. If you're using Loctite, you're relying more on the Loctite than normal I guess? That's why I was trying to figure out if it was a stretch nut, between the 2 parts, the nut would have to be the one to stretch, not the axle shaft.

As for the $18 per bolt- ouch! I know our local truck supply parts place sells them for $3.80 each. For me, to me- and I understand the argument about money- even if it was $35 I would replace them knowing that. I would sacrifice that for my family's safety. It's a part you replace once in a lifetime for most people. Turdle's point of knowing for SURE that a new nut won't have an issue is very valid I think.

I'm not trying to change minds, I'm just trying to figure out the skinny... There really isn't a real yes/no answer anyway I don't think. I think it's all personal preference and assumption of risk.

Yeah, I guess it would never be EXACTLY the same stretch, but it should be good enough to reuse at least once. Again, I think alot of it depends on how "clean" it comes off, based on the threads of the cv-shaft. If they are exposed to the elements, and rusted enough that the threads are all messed up, then that nut won't come off without damaging it's own threads. That's why I put a good coating of anti-seize on the exposed part the axle threads, to keep them from rusting up. I also don't use Loctite. Just look down the nut, and see if the end is still "crushed". If it is (you'll see the distorted threads), then it will still function as a locking nut, even if it is not quite as strong as before. In fact, I've had some "old" ones have more "crush"/require more force to tighten, then the new one in the box. Once torqued down to approx. 230-ft/lbs, I doubt they're coming off by accident.

 

[sehaare]

So if I read that correctly, once you torque to spec, you cannot ever get the same stretch, crush, or strength of grab on the cv axle shaft with a reused bolt that you get with a new one. If you're using Loctite, you're relying more on the Loctite than normal I guess? That's why I was trying to figure out if it was a stretch nut, between the 2 parts, the nut would have to be the one to stretch, not the axle shaft.

As for the $18 per bolt- ouch! I know our local truck supply parts place sells them for $3.80 each. For me, to me- and I understand the argument about money- even if it was $35 I would replace them knowing that. I would sacrifice that for my family's safety. It's a part you replace once in a lifetime for most people. Turdle's point of knowing for SURE that a new nut won't have an issue is very valid I think.

I'm not trying to change minds, I'm just trying to figure out the skinny... There really isn't a real yes/no answer anyway I don't think. I think it's all personal preference and assumption of risk.

"ouch" wasn't the word that I was thinking of when the Ford Parts guy told me $18 each.

Steve

 

[budwich]

Of course, the "warning" about "re-use" is there for a reason.... probably "maximum safety" which no one would ever compromise... Of course, it probably comes from the same manufacturer "guise" of the "lubrication is good for the life of the vehicle" or the "modern inventions" such as the "grease nippleless ball / suspension joints".

As stated, trying to find a replacement nut even from your dealer can prove difficult as a lot of people have found, me included. I have re-used the nut on this and other vehicles with my "fingers crossed" (not my threads... ). After a while, they are just as difficult to take off the second time as the original. If you look at the design of this nut ("built in washer"), I would think that the "surface tension" of that surface provides far and away most of the lasting hold against turning out... other features (crush deformations) are there as secondary "features" for safety of course for say when the mating surfaces of the nut shoulders are not clean / smooth. Just my conjecture though as I don't have any advanced knowledge beyond observation of "bolt semantics".

 

[n2epv]

I too have given Ford the $18 and not re-used the old nuts. The axle nuts on my '97 have a captive washer that spins freely when the nut is new. On the old nuts I have removed to replace the wheel bearings, the washers were frozen to the nut and won't turn.

Just noticed that RockAuto.com lists the nut for $2.45, it doesn't look exactly the same as the Ford part, but hopefully it's correct.

 

[swetrid]

I have reused them a couple thousand times over the last 16 years as a Ford tech and have never had any issues.

 

[Joe Dirt]

I thought Ford spec'd them to be replaced if removed?

 

[windsors03cobra]

Are you kidding it supports a splined shaft that operates an feature like 4wd.
Worst case scenario if this nut comes off you might have a little stripping and perhaps some munching of your cv axle/ unit hub but the ride roll near normal.
Not like it holds the wheel on or something.

That said I've reused them 8 thousand times as well while replacing the "old reliable" unit bearings. Lubed for life doncha know ?

 

[gavin]

Are you kidding it supports a splined shaft that operates an feature like 4wd.
Worst case scenario if this nut comes off you might have a little stripping and perhaps some munching of your cv axle/ unit hub but the ride roll near normal.
Not like it holds the wheel on or something.

That said I've reused them 8 thousand times as well while replacing the "old reliable" unit bearings. Lubed for life doncha know ?

Ford does say to replace them.
And you would get a bit more than "a little stripping" or "some munching of your cv axle / unit hub"
the nut holds the hub/bearing assy together. The nut comes off, the whole assy could fall apart. That could be disastrous.

 

[snoranger]

Are you kidding it supports a splined shaft that operates an feature like 4wd.
Worst case scenario if this nut comes off you might have a little stripping and perhaps some munching of your cv axle/ unit hub but the ride roll near normal.
Not like it holds the wheel on or something.

That said I've reused them 8 thousand times as well while replacing the "old reliable" unit bearings. Lubed for life doncha know ?

That nut holds the hub together. If the hub comes apart, the wheel can fall off. If your lucky the brakes will hold the wheel on until you can stop.

So, YES, it does hold the wheel on or something!!

 

[budwich]

disregard my post herein with regards to not holding anything but the spline.... but I still have only reused the nut and have never replace them....

 

[windsors03cobra]

Disregard mine as well. Always thought the unit bearing held themselves together and were "standalone" units. Guess not.

I always just tighten the crap out of them, never had one come apart thankfully I guess since I never replaced the nut.

 

[gsmornot]

That nut holds the hub together. If the hub comes apart, the wheel can fall off. If your lucky the brakes will hold the wheel on until you can stop.

So, YES, it does hold the wheel on or something!!

So, what holds the front wheel on a two wheel drive? Well, the same thing that holds the hub on the four wheel; three bolts on the back of the hub assembly. The hub nut does not hold the wheel onto the vehicle, three bolts do. The hub nut is only on 4-by and its purpose is to hold the axle in place. The torque spec is to prevent damage to the bearings. Too much or too little and it can cause problems with the bearing due to movement if loose or crushing if too tight. So, guys no reason to change what you said you were correct when you said it does not keep the wheel or nor will the wheel fall off if the nut backs off. Break a CV and I bet the wheel stays on. Saying it would not is saying the wheel depends on the axle to remain on the truck. I think you get my point.

 

[gavin]

So, what holds the front wheel on a two wheel drive? Well, the same thing that holds the hub on the four wheel; three bolts on the back of the hub assembly. The hub nut does not hold the wheel onto the vehicle, three bolts do. The hub nut is only on 4-by and its purpose is to hold the axle in place. The torque spec is to prevent damage to the bearings. Too much or too little and it can cause problems with the bearing due to movement if loose or crushing if too tight. So, guys no reason to change what you said you were correct when you said it does not keep the wheel or nor will the wheel fall off if the nut backs off. Break a CV and I bet the wheel stays on. Saying it would not is saying the wheel depends on the axle to remain on the truck. I think you get my point.

the nut and cv cup holds the bearing together.
if the nut falls off, the bearing falls apart.
The flange with the studs is part of the bearing.
So what happens if the bearing falls apart, without the nut to hold it together?
the wheel can fall off.

yes, you can break a CV and the bearing will be fine. Why? Because the bearing is still being held together by the CV cup and nut.

 

[techieman33]

the nut and cv cup holds the bearing together.
if the nut falls off, the bearing falls apart.
The flange with the studs is part of the bearing.
So what happens if the bearing falls apart, without the nut to hold it together?
the wheel can fall off.

yes, you can break a CV and the bearing will be fine. Why? Because the bearing is still being held together by the CV cup and nut.

That's why the offroad guys carry extra cv axle "cups" so if they break a cv axle and don't have any good ones left to replace it with they can keep going. I also use the same method in the summer when I pull the front diff and axles out for 2wd. If that nut backs off the wheel will be falling off pretty quickly.

 

[JT1007]

I have reused them no issues. They want you to reuse them becaus the nut is softer steel then the axle. The threads are also tapered. When you take then off there no longer tapered.

 

[AppFire]

Redid my lower balls a few months ago and reused the nuts. So far not a problem. Its a big nut.

Chris

 

[RH100]

Redid my lower balls a few months ago and reused the nuts. So far not a problem. Its a big nut.

Chris

Hi,
On my mother's 2011 Focus, the Haynes manual states that I can reuse it 4 times and to mark it each time it comes off, which I did. So, IDK... I guess it depends on the make and/or model...

 

[C420sailor]

10 year old thread resurrection