Brake issue I just can't track down | Page 3 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Brake issue I just can't track down

It can hurt actually, the pressure drums get from the master is different from the pressure discs get. I have never dealt with this, its backwards, but I can tell you using a drum brake master with rear discs = discs will drag, not stop to their full potential.


If you are just looking for more braking from the rear, you can adjust the front/rear biast at the plunger from booster to master.
 



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I'm looking for more pressure to the fronts. Don't forget I have RABS, and now with the new module, VERY GOOD working RABS.. The big diff is the 91 master has a 1" bore, the 96 has a 1 1/16 bore. 10% larger.

If the rears get to much pressure, it will lock up the RABS kicks in and dumps the pressure.

You are correct that IF I use a drum master with rear discs I will get in a drag condition as not enough fluid/pressure will make it to the rears. This is a result of the diameter being too small..

I also have a 95 axle in the backyard with 4.10s and discs... Almost ready to bolt on. Forgot to mention that little detail also..
 






HAHAHA that helps. You will love the rear discs.
You may have to do some converting at the lines going into the new master, the drums and discs use different fittings/flare
 






I got fed up with the crappy brakes, which were getting worse and picked up a master for a '96. Not the one mention above but a tankless reman for 35.00.

I measured the inside of my old master and it was just under 1" whereas the new one was actually just under 1 1/8".

NOTE I had to unscrew and extend the pushrod from the booster a little bit as the depth on the '96 booster was a little deaper than the '91.

With the Motive power bleeder install took a little over an hour.

I GOT BRAKES!

Actually let me put it this way. I've got some serious brakes! No pedal mush and no pedal to the floor. Tap the brakes and she comes to a stop in a hurry.. Stomp on the brakes, even with dragging my 300lb utility trailer behind, and you better brace youself or you will get personal with the steering wheel. The RABS kicks in nicely.

It is more like. "Yo *****, get your nose off my dashboard, I told you to wear your seat belt!"
 






Just a follow up after driving a few weeks.

I have some serious brakes and even with the 33's the RABS works perfectly.
 






WARNING FOR '91 and '92 EXs

If you have a '91 or '92 EX, please heed the following warning: The manuals all say that if any portion of the RABS fails, that normal (non-anti-lock) braking will still be available. That is not ALWAYS the case. I almost rear-ended a little lady in stop-n-go traffic because my brakes failed. I think it was within an inch of a collision. :eek: The pedal didn't hit the floor - it got reeeeal stiff but still NO more stopping power. This is a potential killer.

Anyways, frictions, drums, and rotors were all brand new so I really didn't know where to start. I tried to bleed the rear corners and couldn't get any flow, so I checked in front and after the RABS modulator and realized that it must either be clogged or stuck closed - didn't really matter as I had found the problem. Found a place (CarQuest) that had one reman unit in stock, and after swapping it in, I was able to bleed the brakes.

Now, what happened is that I stepped on the brake pedal, causing both the primary and secondary brake circuits to be pressurized. These circuits provide a force back through the pedal that is proportional to the amount of that pressure. The primary feeds the front brakes and the secondary feeds the rear brakes. There is NO proportioning valve or pressure differential valve on the '91 and '92 Explorer models, meaning the primary can't feed the rears and the secondary can't feed the fronts. If the RABS modulator valve is plugged or stuck closed, the fluid trying to go to the rear brakes has nowhere to go so it builds up pressure - and that goes right back to the pedal in the form of higher forces. The higher forces keep you from getting the pedal travel necessary to apply the front brakes (so they are at a really low relative pressure even when you are standing on the pedal). So what you end up with is a hard pedal in mid-stroke and no braking power.

Ford didn't really think thorugh ALL of the potential failure modes of this system and warn people of the risks - or maybe they did and didn't like the thought of Jay Leno doing a bit on them like - "Have you heard that the new Ford anti-lock brakes can malfuntion and severly reduce the stopping performance of the vehicle? I think they took the idea of not locking up the wheels a little far." Bah-dum-Dum.

The RABS modulator only cost $150 - the safety of myself and my passengers is worth way more. A cheaper way of solving this potential problem is to remove the RABS modulator and replace it with a section of brake line. The modulator has a small openings and would seem to get plugged easier than regular brake line. I might consider this option if this modulator plugs/fails. It is sitting pretty close to the left side of the exhaust Y-pipe....it probably gets pretty toasty.
 






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