Caliper bracket question

[429CJ-3X2]

My apologies in advance for another long post!
My '02 ST has had excessive brake pedal travel at least since I replaced the booster, ABS module, and rear drum shoes 2 years ago, even after bleeding the ABS module 3 or 4 times with Forscan and bleeding all 4 corners numerous times. The brakes work and are not spongy, it just takes a lot of pedal travel.

Last week I replaced the front pads, and the pedal travel is worse than before.
There's a video on YT about excessive pedal travel not being due to air in the system. The guy says sticky caliper pins could be the issue. I don't think that's my problem because they are, and have been, greased and move easily. However, he said a couple of other things that caught my attention. If the inner pad is worn significantly more than the outer, that's an indication that the caliper is not able to move the pads freely. My inners were almost completely gone, but the outer still had material left. Both were evenly worn with no grooves or anything and the rotors are fine. He also said you should be able to easily wiggle the pads in the bracket. I had to force the old pads out of the bracket and smack the new ones with a hammer to position them. Couldn't wiggle them at all, new or old pads. It's like they're a tiny bit too long.

I'm thinking the pads are too tight in the bracket and the calipers aren't able to move them properly. I planned to either grind a little bit off the end of each pad (which will have to be done every time the brakes are changed) or take a little off the caliper bracket where the pads seat. Before doing that, I decided to take the brackets off my '01 parts truck in case I screw something up. After seeing the amount of rust buildup where the pads seat, and cleaning them out as best I can, I'm questioning if it's worth the effort. The '01 pads were stuck too, but the truck has been parked for a year and a half. I did get them to wiggle in the bracket like they should after cleaning, but there's still some rust. I haven't taken the '02 apart yet, but rust is likely an issue with the pads fitting properly. Reman brackets are $23 each, plus cores, at O'Reilly. I'm trying not to spend $$, but that seems like the way to go.

Thoughts??

 

[410Fortune]

How many miles on the front calipers? I would plan to replace them

You can clean all the metal surfaces behind the metal springs and pad slide areas. Uou can replace the slide pins and boots and you will still see the inner pad wear twice as fast as the outer or worse

For me it was the 249k miles on our 03 tracs stock calipers

After two sets of pads wore out extremely early and I had cleaned and lubed what I call “servicing the caliper” I decided it was the worn out calipers with the issue… it was

I replaced all 4 calipers and all hardware and now no more un even wear or brake issues

Your soft pedal could easily be bad seals in the master cylinder as well. Maybe consider a new one. 2003 was 21 years ago and our trac had 249k miles on it when we got it… the parts were just plain worn out, still working, but worn out

I put on a new
Master when I built the truck because I deleted the abs and cruise control. So I’m running a 95 explorer “no frills” master cylinder

Also with a soft pedal make sure you have no leaks and no bad soft brake lines.
I had a small leak at one of my banjo bolts.. I simply did not tighten it enough when I replaced the calipers. I had looked for that leak 3 times, finally found it because the dirt on the caliper was wet lol lol

 

[SoFlaLivin]

My apologies in advance for another long post!
My '02 ST has had excessive brake pedal travel at least since I replaced the booster, ABS module, and rear drum shoes 2 years ago, even after bleeding the ABS module 3 or 4 times with Forscan and bleeding all 4 corners numerous times. The brakes work and are not spongy, it just takes a lot of pedal travel.

Last week I replaced the front pads, and the pedal travel is worse than before.
There's a video on YT about excessive pedal travel not being due to air in the system. The guy says sticky caliper pins could be the issue. I don't think that's my problem because they are, and have been, greased and move easily. However, he said a couple of other things that caught my attention. If the inner pad is worn significantly more than the outer, that's an indication that the caliper is not able to move the pads freely. My inners were almost completely gone, but the outer still had material left. Both were evenly worn with no grooves or anything and the rotors are fine. He also said you should be able to easily wiggle the pads in the bracket. I had to force the old pads out of the bracket and smack the new ones with a hammer to position them. Couldn't wiggle them at all, new or old pads. It's like they're a tiny bit too long.

I'm thinking the pads are too tight in the bracket and the calipers aren't able to move them properly. I planned to either grind a little bit off the end of each pad (which will have to be done every time the brakes are changed) or take a little off the caliper bracket where the pads seat. Before doing that, I decided to take the brackets off my '01 parts truck in case I screw something up. After seeing the amount of rust buildup where the pads seat, and cleaning them out as best I can, I'm questioning if it's worth the effort. The '01 pads were stuck too, but the truck has been parked for a year and a half. I did get them to wiggle in the bracket like they should after cleaning, but there's still some rust. I haven't taken the '02 apart yet, but rust is likely an issue with the pads fitting properly. Reman brackets are $23 each, plus cores, at O'Reilly. I'm trying not to spend $$, but that seems like the way to go.

Thoughts??

Try this , when pedal is the way down pump the brakes ... better ? its the master cylinder .

 

[429CJ-3X2]

The truck has 136,000 miles on it. Calipers are original, I think. Master cylinder was replaced in '22 when I did the other work, but since the issue really started then, it could be bad. I could very well have messed it up when I bench bled it by using strokes that were too long. There are no leaks. Fluid level doesn't change.

I'm the only one who drives this truck, so I got used to it and put up with the low brake pedal until now. The need or opportunity to pump the brakes doesn't happen often. I think they get a little better with repeated use like in a parking lot, but still not great. They do grab better in reverse.

I'm being slow to take the truck apart because I'm waiting for the driver's side dust shield, which should be here tomorrow. If I take it apart now and put it back together, I'll have to do the one side again when the shield gets here. I can't do one side and not the other and be able to drive it. Plus, it was supposed to be raining today, but that is out of the forecast now.

A benefit of taking the brackets off the '01 parts truck is that the rotors and pads are really good except for surface rust from not being used, so I put the old rotors back on when I put the wheels back on. It doesn't need front brakes just sitting there. I also took the sway bar links off while I had easy access. They have only a few thousand miles on them, and the '04 needs them. I also needed a couple of the bolts for the dust shield.

Maybe I'll try the master cylinder from the '01 and see if that makes a difference.

Side note to taking parts off the '01 - I jacked up the left side and worked there first. I decided to block the truck off the ground to make taking parts off easier in the future. The tires have slow leaks and it's on soft ground. I put a cement paver, some boards, and a Jeep wheel (don't remember why I have a set of Jeep wheels) under the cross member. When I put the tire back on and lowered the left side, the right side came off the ground!

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Just ran an errand in the truck. Pumping the brakes doesn't change a thing.

 

[SoFlaLivin]

Just ran an errand in the truck. Pumping the brakes doesn't change a thing.

what color is your brake fluid? . bleed brakes again ... run the old fluid out of every wheel.

 

[410Fortune]

I can tell you from experience that too long of a stroke before bench bleeding will/can result in torn seals and a soft pedal
You have bled the air from the abs pump and lines still soft pedal
It’s the master

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I bled right at 2 quarts of fluid through the system 2 years ago, no more than 20,000 miles ago.

I very likely damaged the new master cylinder bench bleeding it 2 years ago. I remember using long strokes and rereading the instructions to use short strokes halfway through. The one I took off should be in a box around here somewhere. I should read through the thread from when I did that work to see why I replaced it. I'll probably put that one or the one from the '01 on to see if that helps before buying a new one.

At the same time, I'm sure the pads are too tight in the brackets and I have to take one side apart for the dust shield anyway. I got the '01 caliper brackets cleaned up pretty well, at least where it counts. That went reasonably well after I started using a medium to coarse flat file. The edge makes a good chipping hammer and scraper, and the flat side takes off what's left. A lot of the rust chips off - if you do that step first. It's harder to get off if you use the file or a grinder/sander on it first.

I don't know if I'll replace the brackets first or the master cylinder, but I'll do one job then the other rather than both at the same time so I'll know which makes the most difference. And I will do both.

 

[lincolnlocker]

My apologies in advance for another long post!
My '02 ST has had excessive brake pedal travel at least since I replaced the booster, ABS module, and rear drum shoes 2 years ago, even after bleeding the ABS module 3 or 4 times with Forscan and bleeding all 4 corners numerous times. The brakes work and are not spongy, it just takes a lot of pedal travel.

Last week I replaced the front pads, and the pedal travel is worse than before.
There's a video on YT about excessive pedal travel not being due to air in the system. The guy says sticky caliper pins could be the issue. I don't think that's my problem because they are, and have been, greased and move easily. However, he said a couple of other things that caught my attention. If the inner pad is worn significantly more than the outer, that's an indication that the caliper is not able to move the pads freely. My inners were almost completely gone, but the outer still had material left. Both were evenly worn with no grooves or anything and the rotors are fine. He also said you should be able to easily wiggle the pads in the bracket. I had to force the old pads out of the bracket and smack the new ones with a hammer to position them. Couldn't wiggle them at all, new or old pads. It's like they're a tiny bit too long.

I'm thinking the pads are too tight in the bracket and the calipers aren't able to move them properly. I planned to either grind a little bit off the end of each pad (which will have to be done every time the brakes are changed) or take a little off the caliper bracket where the pads seat. Before doing that, I decided to take the brackets off my '01 parts truck in case I screw something up. After seeing the amount of rust buildup where the pads seat, and cleaning them out as best I can, I'm questioning if it's worth the effort. The '01 pads were stuck too, but the truck has been parked for a year and a half. I did get them to wiggle in the bracket like they should after cleaning, but there's still some rust Get Started. I haven't taken the '02 apart yet, but rust is likely an issue with the pads fitting properly. Reman brackets are $23 each, plus cores, at O'Reilly. I'm trying not to spend $$, but that seems like the way to go.

Thoughts??

Replace the caliper brackets with remanufactured ones for $23 each from O'Reilly. This will likely resolve the issue of the pads being too tight in the brackets and improve your brake pedal travel.

 

[410Fortune]

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I put the '01 brackets on yesterday. They cleaned up well where they needed to. The pads move as they should and I didn't need to smack them with a 3 lb hammer to get them in. The '02 brackets aren't nearly as rusty as the '01s were, with practically no rust where the pads go, but I seriously did use a 3 lb hammer to get the outer pads in and out of them. Unfortunately, it didn't change the pedal travel.

I most likely damaged the seals in the master cylinder when I bench bled it. The tight pads may have stressed the seals even more. I just read 2 threads I made several years ago about brakes on the '01. In one case, the poor braking was due to the rears being out of adjustment after Midas had replaced them along with an axle seal and failed to adjust them. I spent a lot of time getting the rear brakes right 2 years ago, so I doubt that's the issue here.
Another possibility is that I didn't get the pushrod adjusted to the right length when I replaced the booster 2 years ago, but since pedal travel got worse after changing pads and not touching anything under the hood, I question whether that's the issue.

 

[410Fortune]

The pushrod length adjusts the front to rear bias, it should be set at basically 1”
Even with the pushrod adjusted way out you would still have a soft pedal

The rear brakes are adjustable? The e brake is

 

[429CJ-3X2]

2001 and 2002 have rear drums, so yes, they are adjustable.

 

[410Fortune]

Ahhhhhhhh of course I always forget about the silly trac rear drums I’m so used to having discs back there

They are self adjusting drums

Drive in reverse, hit brakes… repeat
They should self adjust

 

[429CJ-3X2]

The brakes grab immediately in reverse, so I don't think the rear brakes are the problem. I'll check them anyway.

What are the symptoms of a bad brake booster? I changed this one 2 years ago because it was wet where the master cylinder bolts up. Probably didn't need to, but it was getting rusty in that area.

 

[410Fortune]

Basically they hold vacuum or they don’t pretty simple device

Shut engine off, pull brake booster grommet.. should be holding vacuum

Should have a firm pedal even without the engine running and booster full of vacuum

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I'm not ready to say it's entirely fixed, (been there, done that, only to be wrong) but ....
This afternoon, I took the master cylinder off the '01 parts truck and put it on the '02. I also adjusted the push rod from the booster to match the '01. When I replaced the booster, I took the old one with me and turned it in for the core when I picked up the new one, not realizing I'd need to adjust the push rod length. It was set 2mm shorter than the '01, 15mm vs 17mm. That doesn't seem like much difference, but it's a fair amount percentage-wise and took more turns than you'd think.

I'm not concerned about the fluid in the '01 master cylinder. The rear brake line had a hole rubbed through it and was replaced in January 2020, which is a year or two more recent than I thought. Reading through the thread when I did that, I saw that I replaced the calipers in Feb 2020, which I had forgotten, and the pads and rotors in the summer of 2020. I have more parts to salvage than I thought! I went through a lot of brake fluid doing those repairs, and the engine died in the fall of '22, so the fluid should be in good shape.

After swapping master cylinders and adjusting the push rod, I took it for a test drive of several miles, making multiple stops at different speeds, and the pedal feels much better! It was kinda scary yesterday, but the pedal feel is much more confidence inspiring now. And I haven't bled the system yet.

 

[410Fortune]

2mm is a lot! The bias changes dramatically
Basically uou can make it do the rear brakes lock up way before the fronts

I’ve always had good luck with the factory setting

Basically an inch

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I should have clarified that 17mm is the length of the adjustment screw from where it comes out of the shaft to the tip, not from the booster housing as shown above. That illustration is helpful, but not great. The adjustment screw is longer than it appears above. If it was turned all the way in so no threads are showing, it's about 13-14mm from the tip to where it comes out of the shaft, not the tiny amount shown.

 

[410Fortune]

The diagram is assuming you made the simple wooden jig or “gauge
Block”