Can I pull the front DS in a V8?

[zfinger]

I know if I pull the front DS out then the truck will roll away if I dont set the parking break. But can I pull the whole shaft and drive without it as a 2wd? I'm a poor college kid with 4 vehicles and dont have $228 for a new shaft right now. And the one in there now is ungodly loud.

I'm a Jeep guy and I picked the explorer up cheap to flip for a small profit, its a basket case, and my bill for my next semester of college is due in like 3 days. With a Jeep the pinions are fixed in the front shaft and the slip is in the shaft itself, so pulling the front shaft is ok because the pinions wont fall out. Is the explorer the same way, I'm sorry but its not at home and I havnt looked under it much.

So the million dollar question is can I take out the front driveshaft and safely drive around?

 

[Dan Whitaker]

As long as it is for a short period of time and on dry roads. Other wise the constant slipping will burn up in the t-case.

 

[X6StringerX]

I thought everyone agreed that the AWD cases don't have clutches, so there is no abnormal stress or wear on any of the parts?

I just made a thread about removing my drive shaft, but everytime I read a thread on this board, one person says it'll burn the tcase up and another says it won't affect it at all because the front output on the tcase will be turning at the same speed as the rear output.




...I just wanna melt what tread is left on my rear tires. :-( Is that too much to ask?

 

[zfinger]

I just wanna pull this shaft and see if the noise goes away. But I dont want crazy stuff like the tire falling off (which is what happened to this explorer when the cv shaft was pulled and driven without) And if it can be done and stops the noise I'm golden to beat this thing for a little longer.

 

[zfinger]

So whats the final verdict here?

So I am safe to take the shaft out and drive without it?

 

[MountaineerGreen]

You can pull it short term, I don't recommend long term driving without the d shaft in. You should be able to find a junk yard part much cheaper.

 

[lowflyingbird]

Hi,
I'm Telling you right now that you can pull the shaft!! I have a 1998 5.0 and it had a bad shaft upon purchase. It made alot of noise upon acceleration. Since I only wanted a 2WD truck, I pulled the shaft. YES, I do set the emergency brake when parked.I also pulled out the entire front axle and shafts ofcourse. I seperated the shaft ends that go into the hubs, cleaned them out and stuck them back into the hubs. I have had NO problem at all and I have put about 40kmi. on the truck since I bought it.

 

[reserved50]

yea but will it work when you put a shaft back in?

 

[MountaineerGreen]

I wouldn't risk it long term.

 

[gijoecam]

Hi,
I'm Telling you right now that you can pull the shaft!! I have a 1998 5.0 and it had a bad shaft upon purchase. It made alot of noise upon acceleration. Since I only wanted a 2WD truck, I pulled the shaft. YES, I do set the emergency brake when parked.I also pulled out the entire front axle and shafts ofcourse. I seperated the shaft ends that go into the hubs, cleaned them out and stuck them back into the hubs. I have had NO problem at all and I have put about 40kmi. on the truck since I bought it.

Good for you, but I beg to differ...

OK, so if the transfer case slips in park, does it somehow NOT slip when you're driving?? Doesn't the transfer case see even greater loads when you apply power to it?? Wouldn't it logically slip more when driving than when in park?? Or does the transfer case mysteriously know that you're driving, so it locks-up solid?

Even though it does not have mechanical clutches, constant slippage of any kind, be it mechanical clutches or a viscous coupling, generates heat. Generate enough heat, and yes, it will damage something.

Long-term running without the front shaft on an AWD case can damage the viscous coupling, plain and simple. Does it damage it in EVERY case? No. Is the potential for damage there? Absolutely. You're using the case in a manner it was never intended to be used. Unless you know something that the engineers that designed the SYSTEM don't, you're on your own, and recommending otherwise without any test data to back up that opinion is irresponsible at best. "I did it, so you should too" is hardly sound mechanical advice.

__________________________________________________________________

Now, that being said, if you're trying to pin down the noise and suspect the front d/s as the culprit, then yes, for troubleshooting purposes, removing it and taking it for a test drive won't do any major damage. The fron d/s flange is locked into the t-case. No chance of it falling out without the shaft in place. Ditto for the front pinion shaft as well.

Be aware, as mentioned, that without the front shaft in place, the VC in the transfer case can slip, allowing the vehicle to slip down an incline when in park. If you're on flat ground, it's not much of an issue, but you'll want to use the parking brake when parked to prevent the vehicle from rolling.

-Joe

 

[RyanP]

Just pull the shaft and run it in 4 high. That way its engaged manually and not slipping, per say.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Just pull the shaft and run it in 4 high. That way its engaged manually and not slipping, per say.

Not really applicable, this discussion is about an AWD case.

Can't drive in 4hi on pavement anyway.

 

[gijoecam]

Not really applicable, this discussion is about an AWD case.

Can't drive in 4hi on pavement anyway.

Correct about the AWD, but you CAN drive in 4high on pavement.... without a front driveshaft.

-Joe

 

[X6StringerX]

You can drive in 4HI on pavement with a front driveshaft.

Why anyone would drive in 4HI on dry pavement is beyond me...






A common misconception that a lot of people have is that driving a 4x4 on pavement will just make the thing spontaneously blow up or something, lol. Our trucks aren't that fragile. Its not recommended to drive in 4HI on dry pavement at all because of binding and nearly certain destruction, true. But you can safely drive at low speeds in 4HI while on pavement so long as it isn't dry. People read little tidbits here and there and get themselves scared to death to drive in 4x4 in the middle of a blizzard in fear of tearing their vehicle up. The 4x4 is there for a reason. Use it, just don't abuse it.

4HI = Slippery hard surfaces (sleet/ice/snow/extremely heavy standing rain) and moderate off-roading (probably shouldn't exceed 45-50mph)

4LO = Strictly off-roading or heavily ice/snow covered pavement (low speeds only, I'm thinking <20mph)

 

[reserved50]

yea but it really stresses your U-joints driving in 4WD hi on a V6 model on a surface with any traction(with all shafts ),I wouldnt recommend it in rain either, just flooded areas etc like it was mentioned earlier

...did u-joints on this one idiots dented GMC 4x4 every few months because he was too stupid to keep the same tire sizes and used it for rock crawling also, he also managed to high center the thing and crack the transfer case, go figure, they're strong but not that strong

 

[gijoecam]

4HI = Slippery hard surfaces (sleet/ice/snow/extremely heavy standing rain) and moderate off-roading (probably shouldn't exceed 45-50mph)

Why not? All the components are turning at higher speeds, whether you're locked in 4high or not? I fail to see the danger? I regularly run 60-70 in 4high in drag races at the sand dunes, or down the freeway in and out of 4high as conditions merit.

4LO = Strictly off-roading or heavily ice/snow covered pavement (low speeds only, I'm thinking <20mph)

One can easily top oout in overdrive at 50-68 mph (depending on the madel, trans, and gearing). The speed isn't the issue. Traction is. Again, I've bounced it off the limiter in OD with low range engaged in the sand and in the snow. Again, speed isn't the issue, it's a traction issue.

Running in 4 high on any high-traction surface is never a good idea. My point was that running in 4high on dry pavement can be done without any chance of hurting anything for as long as you want if the front shaft is out.

Of course, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the original post regarding an AWD case.

-Joe

 

[RyanP]

Not really applicable, this discussion is about an AWD case.

Can't drive in 4hi on pavement anyway.

My 2000 has a auto-high-low knob. Seems like it would work ok. I've ran other 4wd drive vehicles before in 4wd with a ripped out rear driveshaft a few times home. Or his just full-time auto??

 

[scottyfireman]

to answer your question

YES YOU CAN!!!

i have been driving my 97 5.0 for about three months now without the front drive shaft

you will see a little mpg gain and a ton of hp gain!!!

of course you know it will roll in park....
at a snails pace but it will roll....
so dont worry about it just taking off----

 

[Big6ft6]

I'm a newbie here, but after reading this thread (great discussion ) I thought I'd add my opinion in response to Gijoecam whos says "if it slips in park why wouldn't it slip in drive": If I understand correctly ita ctually doesn't "slip" in park. EDIT: THE TRUCK WILL ROLL IN PARK WITHOUT FRONT DS, I'M JUST DEBATING WHY THE TRUCK ROLLS AND HOW THAT RELATES TO DAMAGE WHEN FRONT DS IS OUT. SO BE CAREFUL IF FRONT DS IS REMOVED!!

If the car doesn't roll in park WITH the front driveshaft, then clearly the viscous coupling isn't "slipping". If the coupling could slip with respect to rear driveshaft, the truck would still roll with front shaft installed.

So if truck doesn't roll with front ds installed, then there must be a pretty sturdy connection between tranny and front ds. If the truck rolls when front ds removed, then I would think that is becuase the transfer case is turning with the tranny and the ds isn't there to hold it still.

I would assume then that if one removed the front ds, and drove around the transfer case would turn with at the same rpm as tranny there would just be no drive shaft turning. So I don't think it would be slipping.

However, if it does still slip (meaning I'm confused) gijoecam is right, it would definitly build up heat weather it is a dry clutch or viscous coupling and heat is a machine's worst enemy.

 

[gijoecam]

I'm a newbie here, but after reading this thread (great discussion ) I thought I'd add my opinion in response to Gijoecam whos says "if it slips in park why wouldn't it slip in drive": If I understand correctly ita ctually doesn't slip in park.

If the car doesn't roll in park WITH the front driveshaft, then clearly the viscous coupling isn't slipping. If the coupling could slip in park, the truck would still roll with front shaft installed.

So if truck doesn't roll with front ds installed, then there must be a pretty sturdy connection between tranny and front ds. If the truck rolls when front ds removed, then I would think that is becuase the transfer case is turning with the tranny and the ds isn't there to hold it still.

I would assume then that if one removed the front ds, and drove around the transfer case would turn with at the same rpm as tranny there would just be no drive shaft turning. So I don't think it would be slipping.

However, if it does still slip (meaning I'm confused) gijoecam is right, it would definitly build up heat weather it is a dry clutch or viscous coupling and heat is a machine's worst enemy.

I understand what you're saying, but your logic is flawed. It doesn't slip in park with the driveshaft in place because the front axle holds the front output in place. The reason for that is that the input shaft does not drive the rear output directly with the viscous coupling piggy-backed on the side.

Think of it like a rear axle turned-sideways. The input is the driveshaft, and your two outputs are the axles. Now, hold the driveshaft in place and put pressure on one wheel, and the other wheel tries to spin. If it cannot, the wheel you're applying torque to won't either. Now, break that opposing axle shaft, and there will be nothing to stop the wheel from turning.

The input shaft drives the viscous coupling, and by whatever means, the VC applies some portion of the power to both of the output shafts. (I admit, the actual workings are a mystery to me still) In other words, the AWD transfer case does not have a direct-drive of the rear wheels like the A4wd case does. With the 4405 A4wd case, power is transmitted directly through from the input to the rear output, and the front output is hitched to the rear as necessary (electronic controls). With the 4406 AWD cases, the VC does not put the power direct through to the rear output.

Those members on here that have done it have witnessed the slipping when parked on an incline.

-Joe