Can someone confirm my logic??

[auto_god]

I own a 2002 Ford Ranger Edge with a 5r55e trans, & 116,000 kms. Over the past while the truck developed a 2-3 flare which has progressively gotten worse to the point that I periodically get no 3rd gear until I back off the throttle. It has also developed a 4-3 downshift flare. The problem is also intermittent, some days it drives perfect....other days it acts up at almost every stop light.

I've read all the VB rebuild posts & other 5r55e 2-3 flare posts, however here is what I've done to attempt to diagnose my problem.

Obviously, like every newbie to transmission work, my first instinct was a filter & fluid change.....no difference.

The second thing I did was to swap SS3, & SS1, in the hope that if a solenoid was bad, the problem would follow the solenoid to a different gear. No change.

I then swapped SS2 with SS4 with the same reasoning as swapping the other 2 solenoids. Again, no difference.

So this is what I think I have learned.
1. Swapping the solenoids around with no change rules them out.
2. The fact that the problem is intermittent rules out the chance that I have the blown separator plate gasket issue. This would be a contiuous problem rather than being intermittent.
3. The fact that the problem only seems to be apparent when engaging the intermediate band (whether it be the 2-3 upshift, or the 4-3 downshift) would rule out an EPC problem, as I would suspect that the EPC would control pressure in all gears, not just 3rd, & the other gears work fine.

My logic would lead me to conclude that I have an issue with a intermittently sticking intermediate servo.

If I have made any incorrect assumptions, please correct me. I am by no means a tranny expert. I am learning a great deal on this forum.

 

[410Fortune]

I will wait for somebody with experience to chime in here, but your logic sounds good to me!

Nice post, I wish we had more posts like this, you gave all the details needed in one post to answer your question. Good job!
most times its more like:

help, my trans is acting up, how do I fix it?

 

[bluestream1]

I would bet that you do have a blown Valve Body Gasket. I lived with shift flares from my tranny for 8 months before going in, and my flares were always intermittent. Maybe one shift in 10 would flare. Some days no flare. I found a blown gasket in mine, and replaced the EEC solenoid as a precaution. It's not a hard job, and looking back it was fun.

 

[auto_god]

I would bet that you do have a blown Valve Body Gasket. I lived with shift flares from my tranny for 8 months before going in, and my flares were always intermittent. Maybe one shift in 10 would flare. Some days no flare. I found a blown gasket in mine, and replaced the EEC solenoid as a precaution. It's not a hard job, and looking back it was fun.

I too have been living with the flare for quite some time now, but it is progressively getting worse.

Bluestream1, my issues always occur at light to moderate throttle....no problems at WOT. Was this the case with you as well?

Where approx. did the gasket fail on your VB? It intrigues me as to how the tranny could shift normally sometimes despite a VB gasket failure.

I was also under the impression that '02 models had the bonded separator plate gaskets. Are these still prone to the failures of the ealier models?? Perhaps the bonded gaskets were implemented midway through '02. Would a production date narrow this possibilty down??

 

[BillJ]

I had the 2-3 flare also on a 99 xlt w/ 81,000 miles. I also had a torn VB gasket. My advice would be to do the Ford upgrade (I assume it applies to your model year also) with the modified seperator plate (with bonded gaskets) as per Glacier rebuild diary.

I think that at 72,000 miles that it may not warrant an EPC valve yet. You may also want to consider a shift kit upgrade while you have the VB down (Superier or Transgo).

While you have the VB down, take apart the bores and clean and reassemble each one you can access. Also readjust the bands.

The problem in most cases is due to a loss of pressure in the valve body which can be from many causes (gasket, valves, dirt, etc....)


Hope this helps
Bill

 

[bluestream1]

Auto_god, my shift flare also to got worse over time. It developed into a 2-3 flare, and also delayed engagement. I never had a flare problem at WOT. I guess it had enough pressure to function then. I also did not have a problem when cold as the fluid was thicker, and pressure higher. My gasket was blown by the reverse servo. (see my post: 5R55e shift flare resolved for more details. I put in the update kit from Ford, and did the EPC valve as a precaution. My VB was crystal clean inside, and the old gaskets peeled off easy with no scraping. The aluminium VB and transmission surface were shiny and did not show any stains as the one in the VB rebuild diary. Must be the type of gasket material.

My documents show an updated sep plate for 2002 models, so you may not have a bonded gasket. A bonded gasket can still fail, its just less likely to do so. Why not drop the VB and have a look. Have you checked for no engine braking in Manual first; that will be a dead give away to a blown gasket.

 

[Glacier991]

First off, let me echo 410's appreciateion for your great detail of your issues. Second let me say that BillJ and Bluestream have given excellent advice... this site is getting a cadre of knowledgeable individuals to answer the questions on this tranny - I cannot add anything to what they have told you...they are right on.

Nice job Bluestream and BillJ !

 

[auto_god]

Well, I dropped the valve body tonight. I do have the bonded gakets on the separator plate.....and no, I didn't have a blown VB gasket.

Something must have gone wrong during re-assembly though as I have no transmission operation whatsover. No forward, no reverse.....nada. Too late at night to drop the pan & go all over it again. I seems like the pump isn't priming itself, but its just too late at night to get back into it.

Unfortunately, this being my daily driver & having to get back & forth to work the next four days is going to necessitate towing it to the trans shop in the morning. My patience with the issue was starting to run thin anyway.

In any case I appreciate everyone's input, & I'll let you know the outcome.

 

[bluestream1]

I suspect that you forgot to hook up the Manual Valve. Check the diaries. That is the only thing that would cause your problem, unless you had tampered with the VB. The next thing to fix your problem would be the EPC solenoid. That's why I put in a new one.

If you are going to a tranny shop you will likely come back with a rebuilt.

 

[BillJ]

Check out post 117 (page 6) in the rebuild diary for a picture of the manual valve.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140987

One other thought, I made a dumb mistake on my rebuild and only added 4 gts of ATF at first and had no shifts at all. After adding about 3 more quarts the shifts worked. You loose about 4 qts when you drop the pan and another 3-4 qts. when you remove the VB.

 

[auto_god]

I suspect that you forgot to hook up the Manual Valve. Check the diaries. That is the only thing that would cause your problem, unless you had tampered with the VB. The next thing to fix your problem would be the EPC solenoid. That's why I put in a new one.

If you are going to a tranny shop you will likely come back with a rebuilt.

Bingo....you got it. I took it back apart tonight. Tranny shop wasn't going to be able to look at it till next week. Actually the the little pin that actuates the manual valve popped off, found it in the pan. Had to have the Ford dealer do a search for one, which resulted in 2 hrs. worth of driving to get the new one.....at least I got one, its in, & its driveable again....sort of....gotta get some more ATF in the morning.

One thing I did notice while the pan was off tonight was that the EPC wasn't 100% in the bore...it had one little click to be completely seated. I put the retaining strap as tightly against it as possible....wouldn't that be sweet if my shift problems were fixed on acount of that too!!

 

[bluestream1]

Ok, that's good to hear. That EPC not being tight in the bore may be your problem. Mine only had 1mm of free play. There is an updated bracket part # XL2Z 7L491 AA that holds the solenoids in place. My old bracket looked identical to the new one, but I replaced it anyway. I suspect the new bracket is made from harder steel to resist the pressure the EPC places on it. The old bracket was prone to cracking, and apparently bending. The new bracket lists for $13.47 C$ and is worth getting. I would order all the parts you need: New Sep Plate, new Bracket, EPC, and Ford update kit (3L5Z 7M203 JA) and install them and see if that does the job. I hope you have a drain plug on that pan, as it sounds like you have been in more than once. The other option is to pull the hose off the bottom of your tranny cooler that goes to the fitting that goes back to the transmission and not the radiator. Plug this end. Use a bolt stuck in the end and tightened a hose clamp around it. Put a piece of tubing of the same diameter and about 1'-2' long (depends on how high your Truck is ) so that it reaches easily into a bucket or other container and run the engine for 30 seconds or so. This will drain the pan so you can remove it without being soaked with ATF.

Anyone contemplating this job be sure to read the 5R55E rebuild diary by Glacier991 , and also the stairway to a diary by Bigg Billy. I read them 2-3 times before it all made sense. Many thanks to those people who made the diaries, and who took their time to share their knowledge. This saved me many thousands, and gave me the confidence to do this job. I hope I would have the pleasure of buying you a Beer some day.

My biggest fear was to remove the VB and have all kinds of springs and check balls would come flying out. No need to fear as the separator plate holds all these in place for you.

 

[auto_god]

Update.

One the way to work today all was not good. Very lazy into 2nd, flare into 3rd, flare into 4th, slipping in OD.

On lunch break I grabbed some wrenches & slid under the truck & adjusted the bands.....thank god its a lifted Edged sitting on 31's!

Ran like a champ on the way home other than a slight 3-4 flare.....90% better than what it has been driving like.

Having said that, the only changes I've made inside the tranny are the EPC into the bore as it should be, and SS2 & SS4 have switched positions. Is the solenoid in the SS4 position used in any way during the 3-4 upshift? As you may recall, this solenoid was in the SS2 position when I was having the 2-3 flare issue.

If this solenoid has no use during the 3-4 upshift, I'm debating snugging up the intermediate band a 1/4 turn or so...this had a huge impact on the shifts this morning.....any opinions on this?? My truck clearly seems to prefer the bands tighter than the "2 turns back out" that is suggested. (mine are currently about 1 3/4 turns back out. Any drawbacks to this that I need to be aware of?

Thank you again for all the input from everybody. I'm certainly glad to see the light at the end of the crappy shifting tunnel.....& for much less cash than I was anticipating too.

P.S. Bluestream1, love the idea of pulling the tranny cooler line off....my truck is certainly high enough to do this. Wish I'd have thought of that last night....& the night before.....I had ATF in places the wife hasn't even seen yet!!

 

[bluestream1]

I don't know much about bands, but I would not make them any tighter. I think adjusting bands can mask other problems you may have.

Have you checked for "engine braking in manual first?" Also, did you buy this truck new? Maybe the updates were already done. Did you remove the seperator plate to check the gasket on the topside? How much freeplay do you have when you slide the EPC back and forth in its bore, and did you pull it out to check the O rings?

 

[auto_god]

Yes, I did pull the separator plate & inspect it. No issues. Gasket is in perfect condition top & bottom.

Yes I do have engine braking in manual first.

As for the EPC, yes I have pulled it. All appears well with the seals. I also cleaned the screen & measured the resistance of it while it was out. My EPC has no free play in the bore. After pushing it in that last click, it doesn't move.

Actually, the transmission has been a dark spot on an otherwise great truck. It was at the dealer 3-4 times while under warranty for various transmission problems. I suspect many of the updates were likely done during these visits.

 

[auto_god]

Update.

OK, so after driving back & forth to work all weekend here is were I'm at.

The 3-4 flare has 100% disappeared....but the 2-3 issue is back as it was...sometimes just a flare, sometimes a very slow engaging third, sometimes no third at all.

The shifts in the gears that are functioning correctly are great since popping the EPC in all the way...nice & quick & firm.

Now, as an experiment on the way home tonight, during one of the 2-3 upshifts that I was getting no third at all, I selected manual second (which I understand should directly apply the intermediate band). I still got nothing. As I understand it, selecting manual second should bypass all the VB controls & apply the intermediate band servo directly. If my understanding is correct, then the only possible causes of my problem would be the band itself , or the servo. Given that the problem is intermittent, the probability of a broken band is VERY low, leaving only the servo

Given that all of my other efforts to date have not turned up "the smoking gun", is this a reasonable conclusion to come to?

 

[BillJ]

Was the Ford upgrade done?

If it were me, I would put a shift kit in the VB (w/ Ford upgrade and new seperator plate). It can be the servo but loss of pressure can still cause this and doing a VB upgrade is easier then going after the servo.

One other thought, how good is your torque wrench you used for the band adjustment? Did you go back 2 turns after reaching 120in-lbs?

 

[auto_god]

The torque wrench I used was brand new. I've tried the 2 turns out, I've tried a little tighter, a little looser....no change.

As far as the VB goes, I've checked everything. No blown gaskets, EPC working well now, shift solenoids cleaned, resistance checked & positions swapped to confirm correct operation. The separator plate is the new style with the bonded gaskets.

This was my purpose for performing the experiment I did on the way home tonight. I was attempting to rule out the VB as a possible cause of my problem. Like I said above, I've turned it inside out & not come up with a part that I can condemn as the problematic part. Putting a shift kit in the VB may be easier, but if it is unecessary, then I would prefer to focus my attention on finding the true problem. It would really suck to put the time, effort, & money into re-engineering my VB, to only have to go back in & do further repairs afterwards (whether it be a servo or otherwise) due to my lack of troubleshooting.

 

[BillJ]

As far as the Ford upgrade is concern, my 99 had a bonded gasket already before I installed the modified seperator plate w/ bonded gasket. Did you notice if hole # 50 was deleted as per Glacier's diary? Also was the EPC limit screen, EPC limit valve & spring present? Did the VB have the new EPC blowoff valve installed?

There are a number of upgrade kits beside the Ford Correction kit that have corrections to 2-3 shift issues. See below:

http://www.superior-transmission.com/products/shift_correction/4r44e.htm

http://www.transgo.com/sk_ford.php

http://www.transmissionspecialty.com/parts/DM/4R44E.htm

A fair number of people have corrected their 2-3 flares with these upgrades and even if it does not in your case at least the known issues with the VB will have been corrected. The Ford upgrade, seperator plate and shift kit will run you about $80 + ATF, compared to the cost of pulling the tranny and replacing the servo???

 

[auto_god]

Update.

After tearing into my tranny countless times & finding nothing, I got to the point where I was prepared to take my truck into the dealer to be diagnosed & repaired. I simply didn't have time to be goofing around with it anymore. With that in mind I returned the tuning in my truck to stock (I had been running a tune with a heavily modified shift strategy). Problem gone.

Apparently the tune worked well....actually, VERY well when initially installed, however as the adaptive shift strategy did its thing, it created some sort of conflict that the tranny didn't like. Now I'm back to running the regular 91 octane perf. tune & all is well again......other than the shift strategy sucks now...but I'll deal with that later.