Dealership is lost, please help to figure out this problem

[hostile413]

has anyone said or would this cause it to do this, the rear drive shaft being out of balance?

 

[Dennis94XLT]

I'd like to put my two cents in on this one: I didn't see where the front shocks have been changed. If they haven't - change them. Mine where shot and useless at 40k and I never drive offroad. Changing them was like getting a new truck. Next - rotate your tires so the front ones go to the back. If your shocks are bad, you may have a cupping wear pattern on the inside edges of your tires and that causes shaking.
Try this - press down hard on one front corner of the truck - and bounce it a few times as fast as you can - then let go and see if it goes up and down more than once by itself (even a little). If it does, your shocks are very suspect. I put bilstein shocks on mine when I changed them and so far - they are still good 60k later. I had the same out of control feeling you have until I went through lots of parts - and finally the shocks (which is what fixed it).

 

[exploded99]

Well, what I am basically saying is start from the outside of the front axle and work your way in. You have done everything else.
Knuckles, shafts, bent / tweaked axle tube, something wrong with front frame. The frame checks were most likely checking the rails, not the crossmember. Have not heard of a frame shop measurement for a crossmember. Its pull it out and check it allllllll time in my opinion. I do like the idea of pulling the front driveshaft and seeing if any characteristics change.

Real long shot, but I have heard of axles that had production errors and the axle tube mounts off center point or the bearing is off center, or both.

Altho the higher speed required to create the problem does point directly at a rotating mass issue - more centrifugal force at higher speeds

So a possibility is a used front axle swap off a dead ex. May be cheaper than doing hours of diagnostics

I would be willing to put money on this truck hitting something.

Contact previous owner and get history of the problem.

Can't do that, see what carfax reports.

And I have now officially brainfarted all I can, and am out of ideas.

Except, if they get it fixed, buy them a couple cases of beer and show up at the dealers back door at 5p.m. on a Friday.

 

[Creager]

Only at speeds 55 and up if you turn the wheel it jumps all over when turning the steering wheel.

is it the kind of power steering where you can mix up the pressure lines and the return lines?

you said it only happeneds while turning, so that points directly to be something on the outter ends of the axle (rotor, hubs, CVs).

But you said the steering wheel fights you? That Sounds like when you mix up the pressure line and the return line on a power steering gear box.

Theres no reason to change the power steering fluid (unless you remove the pressure line or something), i mean if air is in there it just wouldnt be power steering. That wont cause the wheel to fight you, it would just be tougher to turn the wheel. But at 55mph thats not even noticable.

i like Exploded's idea, getting a used front end off a dead explorer would definatly help cancel out some 'areas' (but would be a lot of work, i dont think the dealership would go for that.)

 

[bbmoose]

sorry but shocks were less than 1 yr old(less than 2000 miles on them) and they have been replaced.
The dealership is the on theat replaced the rack,hoses and powersteering pump to try and correct this problem.
They and i have both ran carfax and nothing showes up.
And the body shop did messure the crossmember while in there because they wanted to rule that out.
I will more than gladly show up with a keg if needed lol
Thanks for all the thoughts. i am hopefully getting it back this weeked after they check and replace the u joints to the steering box and check the collapible shaft.
Mysteriously they came up with that stuff this early evening.

Thanks all.

 

[410Fortune]

the service tech in charge of your truck probably got ahold of somebody older and wiser who suggested these new items.

I dont think your truck has a steering box, just a pump and a rack
The intermediate shaft shouldnt cause any vibrations in the front suspension, but I guess we shall see

 

[exploded99]

Well, ok, you seem to have answers for all possibilities with the exception of the front axle/cv's/diff assembly.

ALL parts have been replaced with the exception of the front axle and the torsion bars/rear t bar mounts, and you seem happy with the frame checks. Torsion bars are not part of the problem, so it seems to me you only got one direction left to go here......

BTW, who is the extended warranty with, they have been pretty understanding, which is unususal.

 

[bbmoose]

Well wanted all to know They have found the problem or so it seems.
Of all things it turns out they have found it was the tires and rims.
The stuff they replaced minus the shocks were bad.It was blatant(sp). the rack was loss as heck then turning it it had a severe tight spot.The control arm bushings were dry rotted and half of them were missing.The ball joints on the control arms could be seperated and wiggled with just regular hand movement.

I bought tires and rims from firestone like i said in hopes to fix the vibration problems due to bent rims.
They told me that 16" rims were an option on my vehicle.So i upgraded to them.They were a nice pair of american racing rims.
Well they told me they were a direct replacement for my original rims.
WRONG.
They have a much different offset and my XLS NEVER had a 16 package.
The dealer put on brand new rims and tires off a lot vehicle.Difference is night and day.Basically NOTHING vibrates or shimmys now.So they check the offset and how the rims were seating against the rotor when installed.They were not sitting the way they needed to be so it allowed a hair movement under pressure and the offset was WAY way out of specs.

They called me and asked me to test drive it this afternoon. I am spring for the first round of any drinks tomorrow after 5pm( honestly i am for about 8-9 guys that have been dealing with me and with the vehicle for months now).

Called firestone and told them what ford said and did and they wanted it in writing so they could turn it into there warranty company to cover the replacement correct rims with the proper offset and new tires(all 15 inch size this time).
I got everything from the dealer and went there tonight.They were so shocked by the paperwork and such that they took the stock tires and rims off the vehicle(deealership is allowing me to use them which is really nice of them) and installed my ones that i had bought from them and couldnt believe the difference either.So they are swallowing everything.The new rims cost almost double what i had payed originally and they are covering that too along with my 100.00 deductable for my warranty work.

So after this "book" i just wrote i wanted to say thanks to all that have posted here and makes me believe in ford and the people that own and drive them.

The warranty company i have by the way is daimler chrysler company because i bought it off there new/used car lot.

Again thanks everyone.

 

[410Fortune]

WOW, I thought the tires and rims had already been swapped out once?

At least you/they solved the problem! Now I wanna know how much $$$$ total YOU had to spend.

 

[gavin]

read that again Fortune He did buy new tires and rims, but they were not direct replacements and not seating corretly against the rotor.
Never heard of that happening myself... but very interesting. And I wanna know how much money *you* spent on the whole ordeal too.

 

[Skyhiranger1]

* Info
They have swapped 2 sets of rims and tires from brand new vehicles and it still does the exact same thing.

Sounds like to me they didn't swap out the wheels and tires, like they said
Typical stealership

 

[410Fortune]

Um yeah WTF is up with that?

So if the wheels were the cause of this, did the problem start right after you installed them or what?

 

[Bob K]

Many have eluded to front drivetrain issues.

If power steering pump and related components aren't the problem and it only happens when turning can't help but think it's related to front drivetrain.


Since ball joints and knuckles where replaced, what about bent axle, bearings, etc?

What about running vehicle on lift and turning wheels to see what vibrates?

55 mph plus suggests resonant frequency problem due to a rotating part like drive shaft, axle shaft, wheel balance, etc. not air in power steering fluid, etc.

Should be thankful you have warranty. Sounds like you may have a completely rebuilt truck in a few weeks time. Would be good to track down previous owner and find out history to see if this started due to a specific incident like hitting a curb at a bad angle.

 

[410Fortune]

Um they found the issue I thought, everything you mentioned has been covered I think hahaha

 

[bbmoose]

I always had a vibration and slight shimmy in the steering wheel since i bought it.I was told it was because of the rims being slightly bent.So i went finally and bought new rims and wheels.I still had the problem but it was about 20% worse. Firestone was telling me it was the rack.But i still had an open ticket with the ford dealership from when they told me it was my rims being bent.So thats why it went back to the dealership.

As far as money out of my own pocket:
84.00 for frame check at auto body shop
470.00 for new rims at the time( over double now with the correct ones that fit my vehicle)(firestone is eating the difference from the price of the first set i bought from them).
460.00 for new tires
90.00 for lifetime alignment service
100.00 for new shocks
110.00 for new staybar bushings and endlinks
100.00 deductable (firestone is eating this too)
140.00 shop time (for testing and adjustment and such not covered by warranty company,including road force balancing and alignment check)
control arms= covered under warranty
ball joints= covered under warranty
rack=covered under warranty
power steering pump and hoses= covered under warranty
all new tierod ends= covered under warranty
hub assembly(1 side)=covered under warranty
Car rental for almost 2 weeks= covered under warranty

so close to grand total was 1454.00
BUT i did need rims and tires so that along with alignment was 1020.00

So i guess with firestone eating the deductable of 100.00 i had to put out 330.00 or so.
But the front end suspention and part of the front drive line is new.
And i drives like a dream.

Oh add about 80-100.00 for drinks around 5-5:30pm today.
Well worth it, but ticks me off still that i trusted someone who's job it is to know better.
Needless to say i will do all my business with this dealership again.

And i did ask them about were i was told they swapped out different rims and tire like they had told me.
I still cant get a straight answer on that.Been told teverything from the y did do it to they swapped used tires and rims fron another vehicle and those rims might have been bent to well they didnt and were mistakened .
Its a dealership with so many heads the hands dont know what they are doing i guess.

 

[exploded99]

So now we have stealerships and SNEAKERships.

Just kidding, they hung in there, so you gotta give em credit for that.

And I'm sure drinking the deductible was alot more fun.

 

[bbmoose]

Well there were about 4 guys when they got to the bar and a few got on their cellphones and called some of the other guys to tell them i was really there ready to buy the first round.
About 5-10 minutes later 4 more guys came in.They said one guy didnt drink at all and thats why he didnt show up.
Well bought the first round and bought pictchers for the second round just to make good on my word. They really enjoyed it.
Least i could do for those guys.