Don't buy 3rd Gen with 4.0L

[nickelphillips]

When fixing the rear timing chain guide issue (in my case it's an '07 V6 4.0, but I think it's the same as is in the 3rd gen), what other preventative repairs might be worth doing at the same time?

 

[CDW6212R]

When fixing the rear timing chain guide issue (in my case it's an '07 V6 4.0, but I think it's the same as is in the 3rd gen), what other preventative repairs might be worth doing at the same time?

If you are doing the rear chain cassette, then the engine or transmission has to be removed to do it. While in there doing the cassette(chain guide), that's the time to change both seals too, the rear main seal of the engine, and the front seal of the trans. The rear main seal is a very common leak of all engines, and like the rear cassette, you can only get at it with the engine or trans out. I'm guessing that's what you are asking, with either the engine or trans out there are other easy things to do on them if it's time. You should check the engine and trans mounts carefully, and based on mileage other things might be time to service too. The exhaust is often trouble to get loose with 17 years on the bolts etc.

 

[nickelphillips]

Really helpful, thanks. 17 years and 230,000 miles on them. I think we'll probably go the route of pulling the transmission rather than the engine, but should be able to do the seals/etc. Hopefully the exhaust behaves. (As an aside, saw your signature and thought I'd mention that this is a great 'read.')

 

[Flashflood]

So realistically, even though the original post is about "only the front got updated, why not the rear?", that isn't really an issue?

Is there any way to check and confirm which side of the engine has broken timing, other than pulling the engine and looking at the rear? Other than hearing a rattle, opening the front, and seeing that it's fine (implying it's the rear that's bad)?

Basically you'll hear what sounds like lifter noise. If one of your casket is starting to fail. The main thing you want to do before assuming you're chains are bad. Is change the tensioners. Yes they can be a pain especially if they sat in there and never been replaced. I couldn't get mine out! Also a screwdriver to the ear is a good check.

 

[TechGuru]

Any serious chain rattling noise should be fairly easy to locate. The front will almost always be one source, and it could be tough to hear well at the back to know if that one is really bad.

Here's the big issue, the external tensioners are much more prone to losing their strength, either the mechanical spring weakens, or the rubber one way valve doesn't hold oil pressure well enough. Those, one in each head, external, easy to spot, can be replaced without too much trouble, and no special tools required except the large wrench or socket. Be very careful at the front though when loosening that one, do not ever push against the temp sensor which is right there in the space where you need to put the wrench or socket. If you push against that sensor and make it leak, or break it, then the entire thermostat housing has to come off. That is bad because the original were plastic and the sensors usually seize in place, and break in removal, requiring new parts. There are multiple threads here about changing that housing with aftermarket metal ones, plus new updated sensors. That can be avoided if you simply don't touch the one close by sensor while removing the front tensioner. Just be very very careful in that one step.

Usually the best process is to replace the two external tensioners because they always need to be with any chain noise. Then see how it runs and sounds. That often is all that is needed until the chain cassettes wear out, which for some that's 200k etc, and others it's way less. Any loose chain will wear the plastic cassettes much faster, the chain rides or slaps against them.

Also be sure to check the oil condition often, the color and age, and if you suspect any chain issue, cut open the used filters to look for any plastic. The plastic cassettes wearing should produce smaller pieces that might get through to the filter, or else they will be caught at the pump pickup, and that might show with low oil pressure. If everything seems great with the oil, often a noise starting doesn't mean the cassettes are gone, but just that the external tensioners are weak.

I'm at 254K and only have start up rattle. Do I only need to replace the two external hydraulic tensioners at this point?

 

[Fix4Dirt]

I'm at 254K and only have start up rattle. Do I only need to replace the two external hydraulic tensioners at this point?

If it's just startup reattle, then yes its only the hydraulic tensioners. However, what we are seeing now is manual tensioners for a polaris RZR can be used, to prevent future startup rattle! (They are manually adjusted, as opposed to hydraulic) donalds and 410fortune are your guy son manual tensioners!

 

[Flashflood]

If it's just startup reattle, then yes its only the hydraulic tensioners. However, what we are seeing now is manual tensioners for a polaris RZR can be used, to prevent future startup rattle! (They are manually adjusted, as opposed to hydraulic) donalds and 410fortune are your guy son manual tensioners!

That's what my plan was until I was 5rslippy5ed

 

[ExplorerRider]

Many companies now usw the updated guides from the git go. Fords remans, Jasper, Dahmer, and Powertrain products iirc all do last I checked a few years back.

Im not to familiar with 3rd gens but iirc both used the 5r55w, so I think the 4.6 should mate with your tranny physically. You likely will need the PCM from a v8 rig, as well as all the "dressing" for the engine like hoses manifold etc. Not sure if exhaust, etc is different. But I think physically it will bolt up. Although you may think the SOHC is the weak link, in my eyes, I see the tranny as the weakest link. Make sure to change fluid refularly & keep it cool. JMO.

 

[ExplorerRider]

Many companies now usw the updated guides from the git go. Fords remans, Jasper, Dahmer, and Powertrain products iirc all do last I checked a few years back.

Im not to familiar with 3rd gens but iirc both used the 5r55w, so I think the 4.6 should mate with your tranny physically. You likely will need the PCM from a v8 rig, as well as all the "dressing" for the engine like hoses manifold etc. Not sure if exhaust, etc is different. But I think physically it will bolt up. Although you may think the SOHC is the weak link, in my eyes, I see the tranny as the weakest link. Make sure to change fluid refularly & keep it cool. JMO.

Oh, I agree. While I totally get ppl's balking at buying a 4.0, I know of two, still running, w/300,000+ on them! My tranny shifts smooth as can be. And I do at least have the last of the 3rd gens, the '05, & it has their 'fixed' cassette & guides n stuff. And you're right, I learned. A 4.6 will bolt up. Just would have to do those other things you mentioned. But yeah... I need to have a tranny flush ASAP. But RN, after having hubs & bearings all the way 'round, plus parking brakes shoes & hardware kit, & rotors & pads all around, w/calipers on the back... Cuz now, whenever I turn right, 75% of the time, I get a chirp or a squeaking racket that I just cannot pinpoint! Third gens... Learned my lesson, at least!

 

[TechGuru]

That's what my plan was until I was 5rslippy5ed

Speaking of slip, can the transmission bands be tightened externally on these?

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Speaking of slip, can the transmission bands be tightened externally on these?

Yes at least the 5r55es you can adjust.

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes the bands can be adjusted, that's a kind of forgotten maintenance item. The TransGo VB kit describes a slightly different band setting, I think it helped mine when I did it in 2007 when I first got my 99 truck.

 

[ExplorerRider]

If the chains and guides have been updated or a new engine installed then I would feel just fine about buying a 3rd gen with a 4.0.

To be honest I just had to put a head and piston in an 02 4.6 due to the timing chains grinding all the way through the tensioners and loosing all oil pressure to the front timing cover area. It locked up the cam in the right head (It always goes first, has the worst flow path). This was with 168k mi.

In the end is all about how well a car was taken care of. Buying from a private seller will give you a whole lot more history of the vehicle than any dealer with carfax (as long as seller is honest or has receipts). When a dealer gets a car to sell they throw every bit of information out the glove box in the trash except the owners manual.

Whadaya mean by "updated" "chains & guides"??? I'm abt to have to redo my timing chains... And I reckon if it's gotta come out for the rear chain, might as well do them all!

 

[ExplorerRider]

I agree. I had a nightmare with the timing chains. Once the repair was done by Ford however, I should be able to get a few more years from the engine.

What did that set you back, if you don't mind my asking? (And I realize this thread is 10 yrs old before anyone calls it out.)

 

[ExplorerRider]

Not sure on the cost to repair your engine if it is still running without any major internal damage, but if the engine has jumped out of time and quit starting like mine did (rear Timing chain) and you have damaged valves etc, Ford will tell you it is cheaper to replace the engine than tear the old one down and go thru it looking for damaged parts and pieces of the tensioners. Costs more in overall labor $$$ to break the old motor down than to buy a used, working motor and install that into your vehicle. I can tell you Ford charged me roughly $1600-$1700 in labor to R&R my engine, this included the AC system evacuation and recharge and they quoted me around $1600-$1900 on a used engine with 96K on it with either having a 1 month to 6 month warranty on them. I decided to get a new, Ford Reman motor for $3200 with a full 3 year, parts and labor warranty. My total install costs with tax and a few extra's installed came to $5280.00 This was back in Oct 2013.

Whadaya think I'd be looking at, for parts AND labor, here in 2025, for Ford to repair my timing chains system???

 

[CDW6212R]

The engine work itself is not too bad for an engine that is believed to not be hurt badly(internal besides the valvetrain). The debris from the timing chain plastic guides can create oiling issues(bearings etc).

The chain system parts should be possible to get for $500 at a guess. I don't count low quality brands in my guesses, those are useless parts. You must use Ford chain cassettes, and the external tensioners. Many people have had great success with aftermarket manual external tensioners, found on ATV's. Those require manual adjustment, but seem to maintain the chain tension for a long long time. Those are slightly cheaper than OEM hydraulic tensioners, it's not about the money, the hydraulic type lose strength over time, the internal spring weakens.

So the labor to R&R the engine will be the expensive part, don't skimp on the engine components.

 

[Josh P]

For a dealer to do the work, it will be very expensive.

 

[ExplorerRider]

For a dealer to do the work, it will be very expensive.

I've got an older fella, been twistin' wrenches (for a living) since 1983, still gets $70//hr labor. His shop is probably the most well equipped shop in MO, south of St. Louis. I think I'm gonna buy a full chains & guides set & have him do it. I've sunk too much into this to turn back now. Besides.... I actually like the truck, itself. Believe it or not! But can someone point me in the direction of a prelubing pump install??? Thnx in advance!

 

[ExplorerRider]

When fixing the rear timing chain guide issue (in my case it's an '07 V6 4.0, but I think it's the same as is in the 3rd gen), what other preventative repairs might be worth doing at the same time?

I'm trying to find info on a prelubing pump ATM

 

[ExplorerRider]

Whadaya think I'd be looking at, for parts AND labor, here in 2025, for Ford to repair my timing chains system???

Thnx