Driving with a coolant leak from the timing cover

[GregAB]

I am paying a premium for top-notch work and that is why I went to him. But he knew from the start that I didn't want to spend a lot on this and when we saw that we had to replace more parts than we both originally expected and planned, then he was nice enough to cap his hours. So basically he gets the job done and he stopped billing at a point because I told him I just couldn't afford anymore past that and he wants me to walk away happy at the end. After today, he's already at 22 or 23 hours labour put in over the past 4 days and once you factor in the total cost for all the parts and the amount he had to spend on extra tools and doing a fabrication for the harmonic balancer, plus stuff like bleeding out the air, oil change, ATF change, ATF gasket and pan (labour that he's not even charging me for at this point) because he has capped his hours about a day ago, he's now been working for below his hourly rate and by quite a bit. So I can understand his point here. When he took this on, he did not see it turning into a mid 23+ hour job because he would have turned it down. And now it's not even done because the coolant is leaking (likely from somewhere else but he will check in the morning as he needs to clear his head). For him, it's all about having return customers.

He is not happy about my truck being in his shop for 4 full days now and he's had to turn down several jobs so basically he is losing money. He said he can't afford to keep losing money by turning down other jobs. I think if it is the timing cover, he should fix it (even though he has to tear it down again) and yes that will be another full day when you factor in diagnosing. He said that when he had the timing cover off and out, he hit it with degreaser 4 times and even used a brush to really clean the metal inside and out. So all the crud that he cleaned off everywhere that was holding up the engine before is now gone. This is a risk you take when fixing leaks on an old car.

We know the coolant leak is coming from the timing cover area, we just don't know if it's through the cover or where yet but he has a very strong feeling there is a crack in the timing cover. Man if this is the case then I give up as I'm just not willing to put another penny into this and buying a new timing cover is going to cost a fortune. He also said that he didn't look over the cover like with a fine tooth comb and he did check it but just assumed it was still in good shape. It has been a huge job for him and it's been stressful and I can understand how some can lose focus or just need a mental reset before continuing on.

He will check it in the morning but my worry is that he will say where the leak is coming from but that he can't keep working or tear it apart on his own time (unpaid). I don't know how to respond to something like that without all of a sudden creating hostility and a bad working relationship between us or offending the guy without intent. All I know is, I can't afford to just lose this money. I cannot put another penny into it. If I put it into it and I don't walk out with a 100% fixed truck then not only am I screwed but I will be super pissed.

I mean I feel bad for all of this and I sure in hell did not expect this to turn into a 4 day job. But it's a really tough situation to be in.

I don't think the coolant goes through the timing cover. I could be wrong. Ford used plastic for the thermostat housing on some escapes and I think explorers. They are known to crack

 

[98FordLove]

I don't think the coolant goes through the timing cover. I could be wrong. Ford used plastic for the thermostat housing on some escapes and I think explorers. They are known to crack

Not sure but the timing chain is usually oiled though. I do believe that coolant does go through the timing cover because isn't the water pump right beside or inside it?

I replaced the thermo housing and gasket already.

 

[Mr. Alligator]

Almost all of us have been in your position and know how this feels...

Interested in how it works out...

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[98FordLove]

Almost all of us have been in your position and know how this feels...

Interested in how it works out...

Good luck and best wishes.

Thanks, really appreciate the support. I didn't hear a single word from my mech at all today so I am a bit nervous. It could be a bad thing in that he hasn't figured it out or that he's been busy working away at it and just wants to get it done before he contacts me. I am more nervous what he's going to say and whether he's going to ask for more money or not (which I don't have) and will not put another penny in this.

 

[98FordLove]

It's been 2 full days now since I've heard anything. Getting a little worried. Not sure when to touch base with him without him feeling that I am pressuring him. But I know I also need to give him his space to get this fixed.

 

[EB4X]

What impression did you leave him with? "Don't worry, I have other car I'll use as my daily driver...take your time" Or, "Okay, update me as soon as you discover what happened" -- which one?
If the latter and you don't hear from him by mid-day tomorrow I would call for status.... don't be intimidated.

 

[98FordLove]

What impression did you leave him with? "Don't worry, I have other car I'll use as my daily driver...take your time" Or, "Okay, update me as soon as you discover what happened" -- which one?
If the latter and you don't hear from him by mid-day tomorrow I would call for status.... don't be intimidated.

The latter. He said he will take a look at it in the morning (yesterday morning and find out what's causing the leak.

 

[98FordLove]

He's taking a look at it today. He had it parked on the street for the past two days completing other jobs as he said my truck is costing him money and he can't afford to lose anymore. He hopes I understand, I said I understand. Shops would do the same.

 

[98FordLove]

So while I wait for a reply back from my mech on where this new leak is coming from, I am expecting an answer from him having to tear the timing cover off again and because this job has already costed him too much of a loss in other business (he's had to turn down a bunch of jobs over 5 days), he will want more money despite me telling him I am already way over budget and I will not put another penny into it. I completely understand when he says that he can't afford to lose anymore business. We both saw this as a (max) two day job when we first agreed to it and now it's turned into 7 day nightmare from hell.

So if this is the case that he will want more money, then I will take the truck back as is and put it up for sale and hopefully just get my money back on what I just spent on the repairs. Take it as a lesson learned. Really hoping this isn't the case but I just have no options if he requests more money for his over time.

 

[98FordLove]

Wondering if I should just put the truck up for sale right now? If I somehow miraculously get this fixed, i won't be getting it back anytime soon, like a month+ from now since the mechanic is only going to work on it when he isn't getting other jobs. When he gets job then am basically screwed and put on the sideline. So if he gets jobs for 3 days the my truck sits for that whole time. What a complete nightmare this repair has been.

 

[EB4X]

Sounds like a jerk....HE DOES A POOR JOB and you have to sit on the sidelines and hope he gets around to FIXING HIS POOR JOB ?!?
And even though he knocked some time off he still up-sold you on other gaskets etc that you did not urgently need...so he made some money and now he's upset fixing his poor work is going to eat his profit.... amazing.....
This is beyond UNACCEPTABLE >> "I won't be getting it back anytime soon, like a month+ from now since the mechanic is only going to work on it when he isn't getting other jobs." You need to get a male friend over there (6' or taller) and lay down the law with this guy...

 

[98FordLove]

Sounds like a jerk....HE DOES A POOR JOB and you have to sit on the sidelines and hope he gets around to FIXING HIS POOR JOB ?!?
And even though he knocked some time off he still up-sold you on other gaskets etc that you did not urgently need...so he made some money and now he's upset fixing his poor work is going to eat his profit.... amazing.....
This is beyond UNACCEPTABLE >> "I won't be getting it back anytime soon, like a month+ from now since the mechanic is only going to work on it when he isn't getting other jobs." You need to get a male friend over there (6' or taller) and lay down the law with this guy...

Well I don't know if I would say that he did a poor job, there is no proof of it. He showed me everything when he was just about done and it looked good. He did replace all the parts needed but this new mystery leak that showed up after he replaced all the gaskets and put the timing cover could be something that couldn't have been prevented and just one of those unexpected things that could happen when working on an old car. I mean I guess I do believe him when he said that he put the new timing cover gasket on properly and it's perfectly installed and that he took his time to be sure of this. I just want to know where this leak from the timing cover is coming from and what's causing it. This is what I'm waiting for him to diagnose and tell me.

I know replacing gaskets and fixing leaks on old cars is risky especially when these leaks have been going on for quite some time. Just like changing the ATF on a car with lots of miles and has never had the fluid changed before.

I definitely needed all these gaskets. The valve covers and timing cover gaskets were the worst. He ordered an intake manifold kit which came with everything and just replaced it all. The thermo housing gasket needed replacement too.

 

[98FordLove]

Sounds like a jerk....HE DOES A POOR JOB and you have to sit on the sidelines and hope he gets around to FIXING HIS POOR JOB ?!?
And even though he knocked some time off he still up-sold you on other gaskets etc that you did not urgently need...so he made some money and now he's upset fixing his poor work is going to eat his profit.... amazing.....
This is beyond UNACCEPTABLE >> "I won't be getting it back anytime soon, like a month+ from now since the mechanic is only going to work on it when he isn't getting other jobs." You need to get a male friend over there (6' or taller) and lay down the law with this guy...

I will say that I really do wish he would just finish the job and get this repair over with. If I was a mechanic, I would just suck it up and get it over with. Since he is putting me on the sidelines, this could go on for months before he even figures out what to do. I don't have time for this crap and I'm not willing to let my truck sit for weeks or months before I get it back. Even though I have two cars, I still need this truck. I will give him some more time to get back to me in terms of what he's going to do about fixing this new leak but if I don't see progress within a week, I will just pick up the truck and sell it.

I may as well put up an ad for it to see what offers I can get for this. I don't even know how I'm going to explain the current condition of the truck. All these new parts but leaking coolant - don't even know if it's from the same spot or what. Mechanic hasn't even told me yet. He said he was pulling the truck into his shop today to look at it but I didn't get a reply.

 

[donalds]

Shoot I'd just fix it for u if you were close
I'd have it finished in one afternoon
4-5 hours
This piece ........ ......... Is taking advantage of your kindness

 

[98FordLove]

Shoot I'd just fix it for u if you were close
I'd have it finished in one afternoon
4-5 hours
This piece ........ ......... Is taking advantage of your kindness

Thanks. By any chance know anyone in Calgary? I'm thinking about finding local garage guys and seeing what my options are. Ya I can't take it to any other mech or shop or else I would have to pay and a lot. I'll give him until Tuesday (which will be a full week since he finished the initial repairs) and if there is no progress then I will pick up the truck and sell it, which really sucks because I need the truck. I really don't want to sell it.

One-week should be more than enough time to look at it and diagnose it.

 

[98FordLove]

What's the best way to check for timing cover cracks?

 

[98FordLove]

Have an update:

Good news:
1) Mechanic is tearing it down today to confirm what's happening but he is certain that the timing cover is cracked. He will get back to me later today to tell me what's going on.
2) He's not charging for the labour.
3) He will check the harmonic balancer as well.

Bad news:
1) He said the you can't always see cracks in the timing cover to detect if it's indeed leaking coolant.
2) A new timing cover is $175cdn from a local store. Called around and this is the only store who can get one. Online is about the same when you factor in shipping. Aluminum.
3) Another $175 out of my pocket for another part.

If he confirms that it's the cover, then I will see what he says if he wants more for labour.

 

[fast_dave]

I don't mean to sound abrasive in this post - I'm just going on my experience here, after doing this job twice.

This is not a rush job - due to all the variables involved in repairing a 25 year old vehicle...

Main Message based on reading about your problem:

80% of this job is the preparation that's necessary for a clean reassembly and thus hitting the goal the 1st time.

Part of my preparation involves "chasing the bolt holes" in the engine block with a NEW sharp tap.

I follow up by brushing out the crud from the bolt holes with the appropriate size brass bore brush and carb/brake cleaner.

Then turn my attention towards all of the bolts that go through the timing cover and into the engine block.

I wire brush the threads on all of them.

That's followed up by placing the newly brushed bolts into a plastic jar 1/4 filled with brake/carb cleaner, capping the jar, and shaking the bolts for a couple of minutes in the solution. All of the crud and shavings will fall to the bottom of the jar.

When done, I lay out a clean cotton rag, and dump the bolts onto the rag, allowing them to dry in the sun.

NOW - Since you have a coolant leak from the Timing Cover, here's what I'd wager.

I imagine that there is "crud" in the bolt holes above/below the water passages in the Timing Cover (Refer to the picture I attached earlier in this thread)

NOTE that is one hole above and one hole below EACH water passage - those are the suspect bolt holes.

That crud in those bolt holes are not allowing the bolts that go through them to properly seat/torque - thus the coolant leak.

There is four pages of text to this thread, and I see no mention to the auto shop 101 procedure I just wrote about...

In closing, I highly doubt the timing cover is cracked - it's built like a brick sheet house.

Good luck!

 

[98FordLove]

I don't mean to sound abrasive in this post - I'm just going on my experience here, after doing this job twice.

This was not a rush job due to all the variables involved in repairing a 25 year old vehicle...

Main Message based on reading about your problem:

80% of this job is the preparation that's necessary for a clean reassembly and thus hitting the goal the 1st time.

Part of my preparation involves "chasing the bolt holes" in the engine block with a NEW sharp tap.

I follow up by brushing out the crud from the bolt holes with the appropriate size brass bore brush and carb/brake cleaner.

Then turn my attention towards all of the bolts that go through the timing cover and into the engine block.

I wire brush the threads on all of them.

That's followed up by placing the newly brushed bolts into a plastic jar 1/4 filled with brake/carb cleaner, capping the jar, and shaking the bolts for a couple of minutes in the solution. All of the crud and shavings will fall to the bottom of the jar.

When done, I lay out a clean cotton rag, and dump the bolts onto the rag, allowing them to dry in the sun.

NOW - Since you have a coolant leak from the Timing Cover, I'd imagine that there is crud in the bolt holes above/below the water passages in the Timing Cover - Refer to the picture I attached - there is one hole above and one hole below EACH water passage.

That crud is not allowing the bolts to properly seat/torque - thus the coolant leak.

There is four pages of text to this thread, and I see no mention to the auto shop 101 procedure I just wrote about.

I highly doubt the timing cover is cracked - it's built like a brick sheet house.

Good luck!

Thanks, really appreciate it.

I will respond as best as I can.

Yup I am aware that 80% of the job is the preparation. My mechanic showed me everything and how clean it was. He went out of his way and beyond to make sure all surfaces were cleaned thoroughly and some things like the timing cover he even hit it with brake cleaner 4 times and scrubbed it with a wire brush.

He says that the new gasket was properly seated with the original timing cover. When he showed me the timing cover when out of the truck and cleaned, it was spick and span clean from what I saw.

I highly doubt the timing cover is cracked too but it is aluminum.

 

[fast_dave]

Thanks, really appreciate it.

I will respond as best as I can.

Yup I am aware that 80% of the job is the preparation. My mechanic showed me everything and how clean it was. He went out of his way and beyond to make sure all surfaces were cleaned thoroughly and some things like the timing cover he even hit it with brake cleaner 4 times and scrubbed it with a wire brush.

He says that the new gasket was properly seated with the original timing cover. When he showed me the timing cover when out of the truck and cleaned, it was spick and span clean from what I saw.

I highly doubt the timing cover is cracked too but it is aluminum.

Surfaces are one part of the clean prep equation.

I am talking about the clean prep involved with the bolt holes in the engine block AND the bolts that go into those hole.

You could be leaking past the gasket OR leaking past the bolts that are above and below the water passage holes...

If your mechanic spent the time to do the prep I wrote about, he would have surely told you at some point in your many conversations,
because it's a couple of hours worth of tedious work...

Hopefully someone else can chime in