Driving with a coolant leak from the timing cover

[C420sailor]

Instead of arbitrarily buying a new cover, hopefully he will properly diagnose. He should clean the current cover up and dye pen it, at the very least.

 

[fast_dave]

Look at Picture #1 & 2 of Post 12

Look at all of the "meat" around the two water passage holes on the L/R of the Timing Cover.

Your mechanic is saying that area is cracked...

 

[98FordLove]

Look at Picture #1 & 2 of Post 12

Look at all of the "meat" around the two water passage holes on the L/R of the Timing Cover.

Your mechanic is saying that area is cracked...

Can you send me a pic? Don't see a link. Thanks.

 

[fast_dave]

Page 1 of this 5 page thread,
Post #12

 

[98FordLove]

Dave do you mean these holes Dave?

If so, yes he cleaned them right out. When I saw the cover last week it was spin and span clean, shiny clean, smooth to the touch, no gunk.

 

[fast_dave]

The holes you have circled are the coolant passages.

Notice how there is one bolt hole above and below each coolant passage.

These bolt holes lead to the mounting destination = the engine block.

At minimum, your mechanic needs to tap and clean those holes IN THE ENGINE BLOCK as well as the bolts that mate up with those holes= (4) in total.

In actuality, he should do that for ALL (11) of the mounting destination holes in the engine block (and clean the threads of the corresponding bolts) that pass through the timing cover...

 

[98FordLove]

The holes you have circled are the coolant passages.

Notice how there is one bolt hole above and below each coolant passage.

These bolt holes lead to the mounting destination = the engine block.

At minimum, your mechanic needs to tap and clean those holes as well as the bolts that go through those holes= (4) in total.

In actuality, he should do that for ALL (11) of the mounting destination holes in the engine block (and clean the threads of the corresponding bolts) that pass through the timing cover.

Thanks, I see what you mean. I will ask him. If that's the case, then all the small circles on that cover on the edge of the whole thing should be clean no?

I am confident he did clean those 4 holes that you are referring to but I will ask again. When he has the cover off again, he's going to spend more time to clean it all over again.

 

[fast_dave]

...

 

[98FordLove]

...

My concern is how do you know it's leaking from cracks in the timing cover if you can't always detect cracks in the cover by the human eye? He says it was coming out from multiple spots and it was coming out quite a bit.

 

[fast_dave]

Tell him that he needs to follow the KISS principle and thus get back to basics such as:
"spend time chasing bolt hole threads with a tap and then wire brushing bolt threads"

 

[98FordLove]

Tell him that he needs to follow the KISS principle and thus get back to basics such as:
"spend time chasing bolt hole threads with a tap and then wire brushing bolt threads"

Okay I will. I know he cleaned all the bolt holes the first time, no promise thats where the leak is coming from though. But when you had yours leaking from these specific bolt holes, how bad was your leak? Just so I know what signs.

 

[98FordLove]

Got an update and this will all come to a final conclusion tomorrow as to which direction I take.

The mechanic tore the timing cover down today, replaced the gasket again and inspected the timing cover and it's good, no cracks. The coolant leak is coming from a small gap where the harmonic balancer is and it's literally spraying out quite bad. He's going to try something tomorrow to see if he can close that gap when re-installing the timing cover back on.

But from the sounds of it, this whole thing doesn't sound like it's going to close out as a positive outcome because apparently the truck runs rough now and is shaking, and it's not because of the coolant leak. What can cause a truck to run rough all of a sudden? You would think replacing the spark plugs, changing new coolant, new ATF, motor oil, thermostate, water pump, belt tensioner and it would run like gold.

So right now, it looks like I will have to sell the truck as is and try to get $1000-$1500cdn for it. Even if his trick for trying to close that gap at the harmonic balancer works and stops the coolant leak, if the truck is shaking and running rough now, well why would I want to keep it?

I will confirm it tomorrow but when my mechanic told me that the truck is shaking and running rough now, it really drained all my spirit. I think we did too much on the truck all at once that it's like doing a heart transplant on a 100 year old person.

 

[EB4X]

Good video on this here:
Focus on 3:43 and at 4:10 he points out how there probably SHOULD be either a o-ring type insert at both coolant flow holes OR RTV sealant....I would speculate this is where "possibly" your mechanic failed.
At the harmonic balancer / crankshaft area there are no coolant jackets/paths -- so not sure precisely where he's stating the coolant is now leaking from..
Video:
The fact it's now running rough and shaking makes me think coolant got down in the oil pan below during his startup test and possibly damaged a crank bearing--though I would think he spotted leak right away and quickly shut off engine. -- hopefully I'm wrong....just my 2 cents ...spitballing...

 

[fast_dave]

The Youtube video is an incorrect interpretation of a "safety" feature of the Cologne V-6 OHV

3:43 & 4:10 are coolant weep hole channels, not O-ring channels.

They are designed so that when the green teflon impregnated gasket has reached it's service life,
coolant will weep from those holes, thus notifying the owner that the gasket needs to be replaced.

The factory German manufactured gasket is pre-perforated just for this purpose,
look closely at the picture - specifically the water channel portion of the gasket.

That's why it's so important when performing this job to use the factory OEM proper parts.

In addition following Auto 101 basics like tapping/chasing bolt holes, cleaning bolt threads, and keeping the work area clean.

It might be a truck engine, but it's a German truck engine...

Ford Factory Gasket Part Number: FOTZ*6020*A - approximately $12 at Dealerships or Ebay

 

[EB4X]

Awww.... thanks for explanation Fast Dave!

 

[Mr. Alligator]

The Youtube video is an incorrect interpretation of a "safety" feature of the Cologne V-6 OHV

3:43 & 4:10 are coolant weep hole channels, not O-ring channels.

They are designed so that when the green teflon impregnated gasket has reached it's service life,
coolant will weep from those holes, thus notifying the owner that the gasket needs to be replaced.

The factory German manufactured gasket is pre-perforated just for this purpose,
look closely at the picture - specifically the water channel portion of the gasket.

That's why it's so important when performing this job to use the factory OEM proper parts.

In addition following Auto 101 basics like tapping/chasing bolt holes, cleaning bolt threads, and keeping the work area clean.

It might be a truck engine, but it's a German truck engine...

Ford Factory Gasket Part Number: FOTZ*6020*A - approximately $12 at Dealerships or Ebay

View attachment 327285

^^^ agree.

And I doubt that there could be microscopic cracks, invisible to the human eye, that would cause significant fluid loss here. How could a leak that small cause gushing fluid leak? If these surfaces could suffer from such issues, wouldn’t these surfaces need to be machined as part of any work In this area? I think that this is just what gaskets, sealant and proper attention to detail are made for.

Also, I don’t think anyone could do so much proper mechanical work, and fix so many things, on a truck that it would no longer run well.

Just my two cents.

 

[fast_dave]

These are the folks that license repair shops in Calgary, Alberta - The Alberta Motor Vehicle Industry Council

As a consumer to repair shops that they license, they are in your corner...

I'd politely notify the owner of the repair shop that this is your next stop unless both of you can come to a decision that satisfies your expectations.

DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING releasing him from liability until you get money/certified funds in your hand,
a running vehicle, or whatever makes you happy. Additionally, do not take a personal or business check.

Enforcement - Alberta Motor Vehicle Industry Council

AMVIC expects all licensees to comply with Alberta’s consumer protection laws. However, if a breach of the legislation occurs, AMVIC follows a progressive enforcement model that could include a Director’s Order, an Administrative Penalty or a licence cancellation.

www.amvic.org

"AMVIC expects all licensees to comply with Alberta’s consumer protection laws. However, if a breach of the legislation occurs, AMVIC follows a progressive enforcement model that could include a Director’s Order, an Administrative Penalty or a license cancellation."

Hope that helps and good luck!

 

[98FordLove]

Good video on this here:
Focus on 3:43 and at 4:10 he points out how there probably SHOULD be either a o-ring type insert at both coolant flow holes OR RTV sealant....I would speculate this is where "possibly" your mechanic failed.
At the harmonic balancer / crankshaft area there are no coolant jackets/paths -- so not sure precisely where he's stating the coolant is now leaking from..
Video:
The fact it's now running rough and shaking makes me think coolant got down in the oil pan below during his startup test and possibly damaged a crank bearing--though I would think he spotted leak right away and quickly shut off engine. -- hopefully I'm wrong....just my 2 cents ...spitballing...

Thanks. I talked with him last night and he said the new gaskets are all good and the spraying leak is coming from the harmonic balancer. He is putting on a new timing cover gasket and is going to try something when reinstalling the gasket an cover to close that gap. He said it should work.

But even if it does, I'm more concerned and saddened that now the truck runs shaky. How bad I'm not sure because I haven't seen it running yet with all the new parts. I will need to ask him when it started running shaky, if it was right after all the repairs and at first start up or later on.

 

[98FordLove]

^^^ agree.

And I doubt that there could be microscopic cracks, invisible to the human eye, that would cause significant fluid loss here. How could a leak that small cause gushing fluid leak? If these surfaces could suffer from such issues, wouldn’t these surfaces need to be machined as part of any work In this area? I think that this is just what gaskets, sealant and proper attention to detail are made for.

Also, I don’t think anyone could do so much proper mechanical work, and fix so many things, on a truck that it would no longer run well.

Just my two cents.

this is why I'm so confused. How the truck runs shaky now despite having so many new parts. Perhaps it was my fault in doing too much to an old truck all at once. I know there are risks involved when you replace gaskets and remove all the crud on a truck that's 25 years old and been leaking for many years. There was so much crud that the mech removed and scraped off with a knife from the timing cover that it likely did form a layer and work as a bond or glue to help support any leaks. But now that it's all bare metal on the timing cover, there is nothing there anymore so coolant can get through anything since it's much thinner than oil.

 

[EB4X]

Thanks. I talked with him last night and he said the new gaskets are all good and the spraying leak is coming from the harmonic balancer. He is putting on a new timing cover gasket and is going to try something when reinstalling the gasket an cover to close that gap. He said it should work.

But even if it does, I'm more concerned and saddened that now the truck runs shaky. How bad I'm not sure because I haven't seen it running yet with all the new parts. I will need to ask him when it started running shaky, if it was right after all the repairs and at first start up or later on.

I'm guessing your crank seal is ALSO ...or NOW leaking (tried to re-use old one or poor replacement etc)....and that would be leaking oil.....no coolant ports down there....your harmonic balancer bolts onto end of crankshaft and there is seal there ....it goes in that large hole at bottom of timing cover pictured above. Since your mind is on the main issue.... coolant leak.... you might have misunderstood him and thought he was still referring to a coolant leak. Still this falls into his responsibility.