E85 at $3.50@gallon vs 87 octane $6.00@gallon.

[Paul Anderegg]

While filling up a 2021 PIU FFV, noticed E85 was $3.50 a gallon at Shell. With regular 87 octane and only a few thousand miles on the vehicle, we are getting 14.7MPG and the thing pings like a 1993 Crown Vic with 200k on the odo. What type of MPG could we expect if we switched to E85, and what type of engine wear would we be susceptible to using ethonol?

We drive the car "admin" style, the pinging is under moderate load light throttle, and current engine hours are 400 total, 250 idle.

Paul

 

[joney]

Edmunds tested MPG with a Tahoe: E85 vs. Gasoline Comparison Test | Edmunds

Found this more promising idea; Mixing E85 With Pump Gas: Getting Higher Octane For Less Money
(Might try this myself if they start selling it around here. Just to see if it makes any difference to my old '98)

But: isn't your vehicle supposed to use premium fuel?

PS: in the 2nd video, note the price of gas IN CA as of 12/2020.

 

[Rick]

I don't know about the PIU, but the 2020 ST is not a flex fuel vehicle and should not run E85.

 

[peterk9]

Usually, the higher the ethanol content the fewer mile per gallon you will get.

Peter

 

[94Eddie]

Based on the specific energy chart below I would estimate a drop in mpg going from gasoline to E85 to be about 22%-23%. The cost savings would depend on the type of gasoline you are running. Premium fuel is a lot higher cost than regular. I would guess the happy medium is mixing some E85 with regular gasoline to get the same octane level as premium fuel if your vehicle requires premium. If it runs on regular then buying regular gas is probably the best choice from a cost aspect.

Edit:
I have to revise my conclusion. Taking into account the price difference in E85 vs. regular gasoline quoted by the OP, it makes more economic sense to use E85. This is due to the cost per gallon of E85 is 41% lower than regular. This far eclipses the mileage drop of 22%-23% making E85 the better economic choice.

 

[Rick]

Usually, the higher the ethanol content the fewer mile per gallon you will get.

Peter

Always.

Alcohol has half the BTU of gasoline and needs twice as much to create the same power.

"1 gallon of methanol contains 50% of the energy as 1 GGE."

"1 gallon of E85 contains 73%– 83% of the energy in 1 GGE."

 

[Rick]

Based on the specific energy chart below I would estimate a drop in mpg going from gasoline to E85 to be about 22%-23%. The cost savings would depend on the type of gasoline you are running. Premium fuel is a lot higher than regular. I would guess the happy medium is mixing some E85 with regular gasoline to get the same octane level as premium fuel if your vehicle requires premium. If it runs on regular then buying regular gas is probably the best from a cost aspect.

View attachment 428120

Learned about the energy density of polystyrene at the camp fire

 

[94Eddie]

Learned about the energy density of polystyrene at the camp fire

I think we need to burn discarded plastic instead of gasoline. It would play hell on catalytic convertors though. Maybe thermite would be the best option based on the specific energy of aluminum?

 

[Paul Anderegg]

What about engine wear? This car will literally be run until it blows up, two shifts a day. Reading that E85 eats away seals and such? As we don't drive the car balls-out-mad-man-style, not too concerned about loss of power, but idling so much burning seals is worrisome.

Paul

 

[94Eddie]

What about engine wear? This car will literally be run until it blows up, two shifts a day. Reading that E85 eats away seals and such? As we don't drive the car balls-out-mad-man-style, not too concerned about loss of power, but idling so much burning seals is worrisome.

Paul

If it is rated to run E85 from the factory then it should be fine. If it isn't then you are right. It will have issues with seals, lines, injectors etc. over time. Also, the engine programming is much different running E85 over gasoline. E85 cars have the ability to sense the fuel and adjust programming accordingly.

 

[MNgopher]

You indicate you have the the FFV capable engine, so that takes care of that.

Expect approximately 20-25% lower fuel mileage on average. Yes, it is that noticeable. You should have no issues with the fuel system or engine wear - its designed for it.

(These answers are based on working with the full size truck fleet with flex fuel capability (F150 and F250's) - and we idle these to death).

 

[Hillsndale]

Remember to establish an SOP to run a tank of normal gasoline through it periodically as Ford recommends. Sorry, I don't remember the interval.

 

[jr230]

While filling up a 2021 PIU FFV, noticed E85 was $3.50 a gallon at Shell. With regular 87 octane and only a few thousand miles on the vehicle, we are getting 14.7MPG and the thing pings like a 1993 Crown Vic with 200k on the odo. What type of MPG could we expect if we switched to E85, and what type of engine wear would we be susceptible to using ethonol?

We drive the car "admin" style, the pinging is under moderate load light throttle, and current engine hours are 400 total, 250 idle.

Paul

if your really getting 87 it should not ping , as for e 85 your cars rated for it it will get about 20% less mileage
but the price difference worth trying btw is car turbo if so are you sure it doesn't require mid or premium many turbos do due to high compression

 

[Paul Anderegg]

Thank you for the responses.

Regular 87 is up to $6.19 a gallon at the same Shell, E85 still $3.49. I tried putting 91 octane into a few tanks, but the pinging persists. At the first oil change, Ford wanted to keep the car a minimum of 4 days to check our complaint, which was a no-go so we ping onwards.

Paul

 

[christes]

Thank you for the responses.

Regular 87 is up to $6.19 a gallon at the same Shell, E85 still $3.49. I tried putting 91 octane into a few tanks, but the pinging persists. At the first oil change, Ford wanted to keep the car a minimum of 4 days to check our complaint, which was a no-go so we ping onwards.

Paul

That’s crazy, I paid $3.49/gal for 87 in Omaha today. Why are fuel prices so high in California?

 

[Paul Anderegg]

We have oil refineries here a mile or two away and ships bringing oil in to our ports, so logically we would pay twice as much, it just makes sense. You guys pay less because of the cost reductions possible when transporting oil hundreds or thousands of miles from where it costs twice as much.

Paul

 

[Hillsndale]

Makes sense, but on a serious note there is definitely something wrong if you are hearing that much pinging. I hope they find and fix the problem for you.

 

[peterk9]

That’s crazy, I paid $3.49/gal for 87 in Omaha today. Why are fuel prices so high in California?

I paid $8.75 a gallon for 91 octane last week. A CDN gallon is 1.2 U.S. gallons.

Peter

 

[joney]

I paid $8.75 a gallon for 91 octane last week. A CDN gallon is 1.2 U.S. gallons.

Peter

Ouch! Why are gas prices so high in Canada? Too far from refineries?

 

[peterk9]

Ouch! Why are gas prices so high in Canada? Too far from refineries?

Taxes are a big part of it. The carbon tax just added another 2 cents a litre a couple of days ago and that is not yet shown in the statement below.

When it comes to taxes, there are four different federal and provincial taxes. Fixed gas taxes, that is taxes that don't change, are a federal tax of 10 cents. There is an Ontario road tax of 14.7 cents and the carbon tax at 8.8 cents per litre. The HST is another 13 per cent of the price at the pump.

Of course the current world situation isn't exactly helping either.

Peter