FAILED INSPECTION!!! NEED HELP FIXING BRAKE LIGHT!!!

[newtek007]

Hello. I have a very bad problem that is eating at me. I have a 1991 Explorer XLT 4x4. I went to get my truck inspected this morning only to find a BIG RED REJECTION sticker on the windshield! I figured, "hey, no big problem I'll just replace the light bulb in the dash". Basically, the problem is this: when you start the truck the brake indicator light and ABS lights on the dash are supposed to come on breifly to let you know they are working. When I turn my truck on the light doesn't come on. When I put the parking brake on the light does come on. The light bulbs were all okay. I have pulled at all of the wires and the harnesses and to find a problem, but I’m no electrician and I was wondering if anyone has had this problem before and how did you fix it? Can someone with a 91-94 tell me if the brake light switch is supposed to come on in the first place? Thanks. Until I fix it, it is sitting here in Virginia.

 

[jimbo74]

the pbrake light should only come on if the brake is on..... unless you have too little fluid in the reservoir... than that will trigger it also....

 

[fastcougar]

Let me get this straight ... you where failed because a light on the dash didn't come on??? That is complete BS ... they should only check safety items like brakes, windshield, wipers, signals, bulbs, etc. They shouldn't give two ***** about your gauges.

 

[jimbo74]

i just reread that... that is bs i agree..... they cant fail you becuase the lights dont come on at startup.....hell, those lights are never supposed to be on unless there is a problem.......

 

[newtek007]

Thats what I thought too

I have been thinking about this all night and I have to agree! There isn't anything machanically wrong with my truck. All brakes work including the parking brake. I am going to ask the inspector to show me this is writing. But, technically speaking... there is a problem somewhere with the brake light because it is supposed to light up briefly when you turn the truck on. I'll keep plugging away and let you know what happens.
Thanks.

 

[gijoecam]

I doubt it's the brake light.. MAYBE the ABS light? The brake light should only be on if the brake fluid level is low or the e-brake is set. Never any other time. If it's the ABS light, does your truck even have ABS? If not, then the light should definately not be on. If the bulb's out, just replace it! Could be more than the bulb, though.... in that case, $$$$$$

-Joe-

 

[jimbo74]

that is very true..... if you have a 91 bit is possible it isnt equipped with the abs as that was an option i think, but that the cluster was built universally....

 

[fastcougar]

Regardless, even if the truck had ABS and the ABS was non functional, it should still pass inspection because the brakes work, they just lockup like normal brakes if you put the pedal to the floor.

Question the inspector and ask to speak with his boss if he doesn't budge on the issue. It's not his job to make sure that dummy lights should or shouldn't come on ... it's his job to make sure that your car is safe to drive on public streets. Due to state regulations and insurance liability, he had to pull the car into the garage to inspect it. This meant that he had to apply the brakes to stop the car from going through the back wall right ... obviously they worked.

If this the THE ONLY item hold you up from passing, insist that he pass you or you will take the matter up with the "Chief Inspector" in Richmond.

 

[fastcougar]

Just pulled out the owner manual and here we go:

1996 Explorer - Owner Guide
Page 71 - Warning Lights and Guages

"Brake System Warning Light

The warning light for the brakes can show two things - that the parking brake is not fully released, or that the brake fluid level is low in the master cylinder reservoir. If the fluid level is low, the brake system should be checked by your dealer or qualified service technician.

This light come on when you turn the ignition key to START to verify that the indicator bulb is working. If the light stays on or comes on after you have released the parking brake fully, have the hydraulic brake system serviced."

The fact that the brake light or ABS light didn't come on at startup has no corrilation to it's operating condition. It's an indication that the bulb isn't working. Applying the parking brake should illuminate the light, as should disconnecting the brake fluid level sensor. If you do this and it doesn't illuminate, it's probably the bulb or the circuit to the buld that is faulty.

Where did you have the truck inspected???

 

[newtek007]

Thanks for the advice. Here is what I have found so far. I checked out the VA. state inspection codes and after reading all of the stuff that could be failure criteria... well, let's just say I think I am much better off fixing the light and going elsewhere in the future for inspections.
My 1991 was one of the first lot ever produced and ABS was an option. Mine does have the Rear Wheel Anti-Lock Brakes. It has the sensor on the top of the 8.8" rear-end. When I first bought the truck in '97 the ABS system malfunctioned and I had the brakes pulsating every time I touched it. Hall Ford replaced the ABS unit and it was fixed. However, when I put my 33x12.5" tires on the ABS never worked again. If I slam the brakes on the tires lock up!
As far as failing me for the brake light, the VA State code does state that if the vehicle has the OEM equipment and lights that they have to work according to OEM specs. Unfortunantly I have come across a state inspector that does his job TOO well. If you are ever in Newport News, Virginia and happen to need an inspection on your Explorer DO NOT go to the Airport EXXON station on Jefferson Ave in front of the Patrick Henry Mall!!!
I don't hold any grudges against this guy, after all he's just doing what he's supposed to, but he could cut me a break on something as trivial as this. Anyway, I thank all of you for the input and I look forward to trying to fix this problem.

 

[newtek007]

going to try fastcougar's suggestion

Hey Fastcougar, I'm going to try your suggestion about the brake fluid sensor in the morning. It's raining here in Hampton right now. I'm also going to see if the light comes on when I disconnect the ABS wiring harness on the rear axle.
Thanks.

 

[fastcougar]

Fixing something like this can be like going on a wild goose chase with a blindfold on ... I wish you luck! Some things to try/verify.

1) apply parking brake ... if the light comes on, the parking brake is working
2) using a turkey baster and a clean container, remove enough brake fluid from the resiviour to set off the light. If the light doesn't come one, you know your sensor is bad. If it does come on, you know it's working
3) pull the guage cluster and test the voltage to the bulb that isn't working. Now compare that reading to one that is working properly (battery light).

Best of luck!!!

 

[newtek007]

No Joy!!

I disconnected the Master Cyliner connection and the ABS sensor on the rear axle and the brake light on the instrument panel still doesn't come on. Is there some cind of main control unit that might be bad? I located another instrument cluster at the locla junk yard for $50. Should I go ahead and get this or try something else.

 

[gijoecam]

I'm not 100% sure, but isn't there a fuse on the 91s that controls ONLY the ABS? Could be as simple as the fuse....

Also, is it rear wheel ABS or 4 wheel ABS?

Seems like if there was a problem with the system, the light would be on either way??

thinking out loud here... if the light orks with the e-brake pedal, seems like it's either a short in the wire from the ABS unit to the bulb, or the ABS unit isn't functioning at all.... I need to look at a wiring diagram first...

The main question... is it RABS or 4wabs?

-Joe-

 

[newtek007]

RABS

The system is the RABS system. It has a control module under the dash with all the pluming in on the left wheel well and the sensor on the top of the rear axle with the excitor ring inside the axle housing. As an update I found that the RABS connection to the module had actually come loose. I re -connected it and now the Yellow RABS light come on all the time. Now I have even a worse problem because I now have to fix whatever is wrong there PLUS the regular brake light test lamp problem. It's starting to look like I might be getting rid of this ride in the near future. The $$$$ are adding up. Oh well. I'll keep plugging away.

 

[Jarrett088]

Man this is weird. I have a 91 F-150 that I have the same problem with. Recently I had to take it to emissions for testing. It sits, since I bought the X. Both the RABS and the brake lights were lit up. I thought that maybe something was hung up and would fix/free itself. They would not test it due to the brake light being on. They won't test vehicles if either the check engine or the brake lights are on. If it was only the RABS light on they would test it. After driving through to get my waiver, I decided to check for a blown fuse or something. I found that RABS fuse under the dash and pulled it. I looked up and my brake light lamp had gone out (RABS stayed on). I immediately went back around to the test lane where I went through with flying colors. Strange, I was trying to get mine to go out, and you're trying to get yours to come on. Sounds like it may be a problem for that year. I hope your fix(when you find it!) will also help me. Just thought I'd share this. Good luck

Tim

 

[VairKing]

Here is what I would probably do...If all that was pending on my truck being street legal was a light that is supposed to come on for the first few seconds of startup, and it didnt work, I would run a piece of small jumper wire from one of the light's wires that did work (i.e. check engine light) and then run it to the brake light's wire. This way when the check engine light came on, it would also light up the brake light. I would disconnect the brake light wire from the sensors tho, cause i dont know if that would hurt them at all. Then when you inspection is over, you can have all the time in the world to fix it.

And yes, my Flame Suit is on.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, all 91 Explorers came standard with Rear wheel antilock drum brakes and non antilock discs in the front.

 

[newtek007]

GREAT IDEA!!!

VairKing... Great Idea!!! I'm going out there right now and try this. I can't believe I didn't even think about trying that! I'll let you know what happens.!!!

 

[newtek007]

Worked!!!

VairKing. I feel like a true idiot. I consider myself a great McGyver, but I truely let that one go over my head. I just jumped from the seat belt lite and the brake light now lights up and goes off. Now I will just unplug the RABS connection again and get my truck LEGAL. HaaaaHHHaaaaHHHAaaaa!!!!!!!! Take that Virginia!!
I guess I now have a year to figure it out. Thanks.

 

[VairKing]

Hey man no problem. I just had to put the flame suit on because some people are against stuff like that, but I couldnt see anyone justifying not driving their Explorer because of something as stupid as that. I'm glad it worked for ya.