Fixed Truck now will not start

[wood1]

Did you try to start it with the MAS unplugged? Just a shot in the dark.

 

[Dannyboy]

I second this theory, my '91 was cranking but not starting until I cleaned my MAF, a few shots of carb cleaner and it runs great. I unplugged the MAF and it started right up with similar symptoms you describe.

 

[lovs2fly]

I second this theory, my '91 was cranking but not starting until I cleaned my MAF, a few shots of carb cleaner and it runs great. I unplugged the MAF and it started right up with similar symptoms you describe.

Thanks. Just tried cranking it with the MAF removed. Same result no start

 

[wood1]

I guess my next question is are the injectors firing? You have fuel pressure, spark, air obviously...

Are your plugs getting wet?

 

[lovs2fly]

I guess my next question is are the injectors firing? You have fuel pressure, spark, air obviously...

Are your plugs getting wet?

Good question. When i pull the plugs I can smell fuel but are they firing? One thing. I had the injectors cleaned externally. Had them checked and spray verified. Everything looked good.

 

[manaen]

try spraying some starter fluid in there to see if the engine kicks over. If it does you know it is still some type of fuel delivery issue. If it still will not try to start you have some type of ignition/electrical issue. Is your check engine light coming on when you go to start the engine? if not maybe your PCM isn't getting power.

 

[TedJ]

With low voltage codes at two sensors maybe you have a wiring or ECM issue? Doesn't the ECM supply the reference voltages for the MAF and EGR? (among other things)

Check your fuses and look for bad wiring.

Maybe try smacking the ECM and then see if it works, sometimes that makes it work a bit if its defective, or look for connectors with corrosion, maybe something that was marginal before corroded more while it was sitting, now causing the no-start. Check especially in the crank sensor circuit, I think there is a reference voltage involved there, check if it's correct.

Try to fix those codes, I think they're indicative of a deeper problem. I'm just trying to think of everything I can, b/c you seem to have the basics covered, fuel pressure is good etc. I can look more in the service manual, just guessing a bit now cause its after 1:00 AM. Service manual reading now might leave me

EDIT: Also look for water in the gas, drain some from the schrader into a cup and look for blobs floating in it, sometimes a problem with stored vehicles, or maybe someone dumped something in it...

 

[lovs2fly]

I agree there it something else going on here. Although I also feel the voltage drop may be a function of the car not running. Anyway, I think your idea to explore the CPS a little more is a good one. I am going to try to check that today.

Thanks
Dennis

 

[wood1]

I'd try the starting fluid too that Manaen suggested. At least then you'd basicly know it's got spark enough to run...

EDIT: Woups, got your thread mixed up with another one...

 

[lovs2fly]

I'd try the starting fluid too that Manaen suggested. At least then you'd basicly know it's got spark enough to run...

Just to recap. I can get it to run for a very short period of time 30-45 secs on starter fluid. This is why I am leaning to a fuel issue. Although I am not conviced it is not a valve issue with the hydrulic lifters.

At this point I have taken off the top of the intake to gain acces to the injectors. I plan to check the pulse at each injector connector. Once I verify this I will put the intake back on and start again.

 

[manaen]

Although I am not convinced it is not a valve issue with the hydraulic lifters.

Even if the lifters don't pump up at all, the valves will still open and allow the engine to run. It will run very badly and make a lot of rattling, but it will run.

is your ECU getting power?

 

[410Fortune]

does the 34 psi at the fuel rail remain during cranking?
I suspect weak fuel pump here

You should check for 12V+ at the red power dist wire that leads to the injectors when the key is in the ON position

 

[TedJ]

I think you need to look more at those codes, esp 214, looked em up in the book..

Continuous Memory DTC 214 indicates an error has been detected in the Cylinder Identification (CID) input signal. The error could be due to a "hard fault" or an intermittent condition.

Possible causes:

-- Open or shorted harness.

-- Damaged Camshaft Position (CMP)/Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor.

-- Damaged Ignition Control Module (ICM) (if equipped).

-- Damaged Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

DTC 327 indicates that the PFE/DPFE sensor signal is less than the Self Test minimum value of 0.2 volt.

Possible causes:

-- Damaged PFE/DPFE sensor.

-- Open harness circuits.

-- Shorted harness circuits.

-- Damaged PCM.

Continuous Memory DTC 66/157 indicates that the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor signal went below 0.4 volt sometime during the last 80 warm-up cycles.

Possible causes:

-- Poor continuity in MAF sensor harness or connectors.

-- Intermittent open or short in MAF sensor or harness.

-- Damaged MAF sensor.

-- Idle Air Control (IAC) system failure (at closed throttle position).

I would reset the memory (disconnect battery) and try starting it again, then see if the codes come back. 214 is the only code here that can prevent starting, so I would make sure that code is not present before continuing. If it is I would bet fixing that will get it running. I can get you the diagnostic routine for it if you need.

Also check the obvious that your battery is good and charged, make sure the terminal voltage during cranking is sufficient. I have seen batteries good enough to crank an engine but not good enough to get it going at a high enough RPM or the voltage to the ECM is too low. When you are cranking the engine, the check engine light should go out and the tach should indicate some RPM. That verifies that the ECM is getting a crank position signal.

 

[lovs2fly]

I would reset the memory (disconnect battery) and try starting it again, then see if the codes come back. 214 is the only code here that can prevent starting, so I would make sure that code is not present before continuing. If it is I would bet fixing that will get it running. I can get you the diagnostic routine for it if you need.

QUOTE]

Ted,

I agree that the 214 code may be a problem here, even if it ran before the truck sat for 9 months. I would appreciate if you could give me a diagnostic routine to ferret out this problem.

Thanks
Dennis

 

[lovs2fly]

Does anyone know what voltage I should have at the injector connector when cranking?

 

[410Fortune]

lovs2fly, when the key is ON or in START you should have 12V+ at the red power wire at each injector as well as many other sensors

As I explained to you the red power wire is power distribution from the computer to the engine sensors

If you do have 12V+ and fuel pressure checks out I would go back to the code 214 (as TedJ pointed out) and look at the cam sensor, this sensor is at the back of your intake manifold, on the very back of the engine. If you did not plug it in, the wires are pinched, etc then you will never get this thing to start

 

[lovs2fly]

lovs2fly, when the key is ON or in START you should have 12V+ at the red power wire at each injector as well as many other sensors

As I explained to you the red power wire is power distribution from the computer to the engine sensors

If you do have 12V+ and fuel pressure checks out I would go back to the code 214 (as TedJ pointed out) and look at the cam sensor, this sensor is at the back of your intake manifold, on the very back of the engine. If you did not plug it in, the wires are pinched, etc then you will never get this thing to start

I pull one connector and I am only getting 2V any ideas where to look?

 

[TedJ]

Ok the ford manual is being a pain... when you go to the diagnostic section for 214, it takes you to section 8A, the general Electronic Igniton Diagnosis section. There isn't a specific diagnostic routine for that code. There's a whole lot of writing that basically comes down to checking each part of the ignition system. It also makes use of the ford diagnostic harness, which you don't have.

Before you do anything, MAKE SURE the CEL goes out while cranking and the tach indicates cranking RPM, and that there is spark AT ALL CYLINDERS

Basically if you have spark then the ICM and crank sensor are working. The ignition system works on its own controlling the spark, and sends the PIP (profile ignition pickup) signal on to the ECM so it can control the fuel delivery. Since you said the vehicle runs on starting fluid and has spark, then the problem is either in the PIP signal, the wiring, or the ECM.

To check if the ICM is producing the PIP signal, take an AC voltmeter and measure between Pin 1 (GY/O wire) of the ICM and Ground while the engine is cranking. Voltage reading should settle ABOVE 3.5v. If it does not, then ICM is defective.

If there is voltage above 3.5v, then check the harness. Measure the resistance between the below pins, with the connectors DISCONNECTED.

ICM PIN 1 - ECM PIN 56
ICM PIN 4 - ECM PIN 16
ICM PIN 2 - ECM PIN 4

They should all be below 5 ohms, if not then you have a harness issue.

Some connector face charts are attached...

BTW, check injectors with a noid light, not by voltage. Voltmeter can't respond fast enough to the pulses.

 

[lovs2fly]

Ok, Thanks looks like I will need to do a little reading.

Here is what I have found today. First a correction. I have 12 V at the injector connector. I think that is what I should be showing. This pretty much tells me this will not be an injector problem. right?

I pulled the CPM connector of and my book shows I should be getting 1.5V when in fact I am showing 12V. This has me a little confused. This is with the contacts at B and the ground at the battery.

I am going to check the CPK next.

thanks for all who are helping me.

dennis

 

[410Fortune]

ooops forgot, hes getting spark it ran for 30-45 seconds on starting fluid

Chasing a spark issue is not needed IMO

With only 2volts at the red wire on an injector no wonder you are getting those codes

The red wire powers all those sensors

I would check your PCM FUSE (EEC fuse and relay)

How many volts do you have at your battery?
You should have the same voltage (or real close) at the injectors red wire with the key in the on position