Ford Dealership...need second opinion!

[4.0L_4X4_Rob]

I know on my 2000 the hub, bearings, and abs senor are all built into one unit.

 

[jimcom]

I don't think Ford is selling 8 year extended service plans. So, he would paid them $1500 for that, and STILL gotten the same quote for this work, 8 years later. Not trying to put down everyone who believes in ESP's, but unless you get really "lucky" and have to have some major service done, only a small percentage of people will EVER get their money back out of an ESP. Besides, I'm sure a "brake cable" would be in the fine print of what is NOT covered.

Sorry for the rant. Just something I am strongly against, and hate to see 99.9% of people wasting their money.

Now back to the issue of the stealership .....

Hey Joe, don't be sorry for the rant, it's your perogative to feel that way. Fords ESP's go up to 7 years and 100K.
Or, used plans go up to 3 years, 36K, and can be bought for anything 5 years or younger.
I wasn't saying he should have bought one, just saying it may have come in handy when the problems first arose. I had 3 wiper moters replaced, my E-brake cable replaced, my brakes replaced, and a bunch of other stuff. The only thing I was disappointed about was the ballast for the 3rd brake light wasn't covered.
Other than that, the piece of mind an ESP offers is worth $1500 and a $100 deductable.
It's okay if you feel differently.
The one caveat with ESP's as I see it, is that most stealerships have the FNG at the shop do all warranty work, so we have to watch closely that they do the job right. That at least has been my experience.

 

[rizzjc]

I still don't have the 3rd brake light on mine fixed ... there's no way I'm paying them $130 for the ballast and $250 for the lamp. One of these days I'll have my new one built.

And I don't disagree with you. Like I said, there are people out there who definitely get their money's worth out of an ESP. I'd have to see some real statistics before I make any serious statements about how much more money manufacturer's get for ESP's, compared to how much they fork out for repairs covered under it. It's basically insurance. My feeling is that you can go broke insuring everything that can possibly be insured.

I've just seen too many people pay thousands of dollars more for a vehicle than the sticker price, because they get sucked in by the dealers. Know someone who had an ESP, life insurance, gap insurance, AND over a 20% interest rate. It kills me to see people doing things like that. I can share my opinion, but I can't change people's minds.

 

[410Fortune]

Not all dealers are stealerships.
I was looking in the Chiltons book last night and it shows the 95-99 Gen II IFS assembly as a wheel bearing pack (non serviceable) that is mounted inside a hub assembly, which the rotor is fitted too. So 3 pieces that ride on the spindle.

So apparently in the later models they made this assembly one unit?

 

[JDraper]

On the Gen II Explorers, the front hub assembly is a single piece that cannot be serviced. It must be replaced (the abs sensor is included with the hub assembly). It is a diy job. I've replaced the hubs in about 30-45 minutes a side. Air tools help, but having a good socket set with a bigass breaker bar will do the trick too.

You should be able to buy new hubs under $200 each from somewhere like Advance Auto.

To replace the hubs, you have to remove the wheel, remove the brake caliper (hang it out of the way on a coathanger. You don't have to loosen the brake lines.) and take the rotor off (it just pulls off...might take some pursuasion if it's rusted in place.). The hub is held on by 3 15mm bolts in the back and the spindle nut. You disconnect the abs sensor at the connector on the frame, take all the nuts out and the hub comes off.

A hint to make the removal easier is to leave the wheel on and on the ground to crack the hub nut loose. Remove the lugnut cover, put your socket on the hub nut and use a pipe on your socket wrench for leverage..It's pretty damn tight! Once the nut is loose, follow the instructions above. Installation is just as easy. Reverse the process. Make sure you use loctite on the hub nut. Many places recommend replacing the hub nut at the same time, but if you loctite it in place with the proper torque, it'll be fine.

 

[ljedik]

Ok, I left the dealership yesterday night without having any of the work done, but paid $111.70 for their diagnostic fee. I went home and since the sun was out I decided to take a look see for myself.
I took the front drivers side wheel off and all the brake components. I used some break cleaner to clean all around the hub and did a thourough inspection. Everything looks to be in order. I wonder if the sensor could be the culprit? can you just replace the sensor without replacing the whole hub assembly? and if I DO have to replace the hub assembly, is it required that I do both Left and Right sides?
After I put it all back together, I took it out for another test spin around the block to test the breaks and there still acting weird, I get a cracking noise when its almost reached a stop. Could this have nothing to do with the Hum assembly but rather the master cylinder? I'm afraid I'm going to go into this waisting money on parts that do not need to be replaced!

As for the E-Brake, I havent explored the possibility of doing it my self, I know the shoes are not the issue but rather the cable that is needing the service, is it something I could lube the hell out of to get it loosened? They seemed to say it was seized up and needed to be replaced. I'm going to look at that this weekend.

Its raining out and I just went to get lunch, and I decided to throw the rear wiper switch and guess what! it worked! I bet you its an electrical problem. reason I say that is because my electronic door locks are not working either! if I manually lock all the doors I can engage the unlock switch and it'll work but when I go to lock them with the switch, I get nothing. Yes, I checked the fuses. Dealership blamed it on the remote starter that is installed in the truck but I bought the truck used with this system in it and it worked flawlessly for the past two years and now suddenly this!

I love this truck dont get me wrong but seems like a whole bunch of problem all came up at once! I guess thats just how it goes!

 

[410Fortune]

cable is like $52 new

Can you tell us what the diagnostics was? You paid $111.70 for them to store your truck or did they give you a detailed description of what is wrong?

all you have said so far is they wanted to replace both front hubs and the e brake cable.

the cable being seized up makes no sense, the cable is pulled from one end (foot pedal) and then pulls on the arm on the back of the E brake. Is it the arm on the e brake that is frozen? the cable only pulls it does not slide inside a sheath/conduit. There is nothing to lube.

a cracking noise when coming to a stop? this is a new one on me. Do the brakes work? Is the noise from the front? is the ABS light on still?
Does it pull to one side?

 

[Bobby D Crawley]

I'm not sure what cable you need but I went to NAPA Prolink (you have to be a dealer to see pricing on line) but the most expensive cable on there was $55.00

 

[ljedik]

Can you tell us what the diagnostics was? You paid $111.70 for them to store your truck or did they give you a detailed description of what is wrong?

They gave me a 4 page sheet that repeats what I had told them then a comments section which the service technician gave his synopsis. Maybe the $111.70 was labor involved in takeing tire off, inspecting brake cable assy. ect.

the cable being seized up makes no sense, the cable is pulled from one end (foot pedal) and then pulls on the arm on the back of the E brake. Is it the arm on the e brake that is frozen? the cable only pulls it does not slide inside a sheath/conduit. There is nothing to lube.

Al that I know is that when I press the E-Brake, it does not engage. Like I said, I dont think the dealership wanted to diagnose the problem, they just said that they'd replace the whole system. (Cable, shoes,labor) $1500

a cracking noise when coming to a stop? this is a new one on me. Do the brakes work? Is the noise from the front? is the ABS light on still?

Well it makes a small crackling noise, the big issue of this if you read my earlier post is that it looses compression at about 15-10Mph. The Mechanic I originally brought it from failed the inspection due to a problem that he diognosed as an ABS issue. And said the E-Brake was not working. There has never been a ABS light on, Brakes are working, the noise is generated from the front end but I'm not sure where.

I'm not sure what cable you need but I went to NAPA Prolink (you have to be a dealer to see pricing on line) but the most expensive cable on there was $55.00

Is this an easy procedure for replacing? easy to buy hard to install!

 

[410Fortune]

Dude again the cable only pulls, the pedal goes down, it pulls on the cable. the cable runs along the side of the truck, splits and goes to the back of each rear disc brake where it pulls the actuator lever on the back of the disc brake assembly and pushes the drum e brake shoes against the drum.

Replacing the cable is pointless unless your cable has stretched beyond workable limits or is broken, the system is adjustable at both ends, and slack in a cable can be taken up with a $2 cable clamp.
Replacing the E brake shoes and hardware is where I would start, forget about the cable and foot pedal for now. The kit to do both sides is less then $100 at Napa
the proceedure has been covered with pictures on this forum.


Your brakes loose pressure at 10-15mph?? WHAT? You mean they still work but they have no boost to them (takes more leg) or do you mean you have no brakes?

Yes most dealers charge $100 or so just to put it on the rack and take a look, however these guys just gave you an estimate based on replacing everything in the systems, it doesnt sound like they went any further then that.

Your original post was misleading, but they were still charging you WAY TOO much and throwing parts at the truck that may or may not need to be replaced without doing any real testing.

Many shops will do the real testing for free or a small charge, and not suggest just replacing everything.

Also the dealership would likely get half way into this job and double, tripple the cost when they find the real issue. I mean say they replace both hub assemblies, and your brakes still have no boost, then they replace the booster? talk about working backwards......its called troublshooting, not guessing.

 

[JDraper]

I agree on the e-brake problem...the Explorers are know for the e-brake shoes failing, not the cables...if you can depress the footpedal and release it with the release handle (and the cable is not broken in half), the cable isn't frozen, and I'd bet a chunk of change on the e-brake shoes.

YOU NEED TO GET THE TRUCK TO SOMEONE YOU CAN TRUST TO GIVE YOU HONEST ANSWERS!!! We can diagnose over the computer to the best of our ability, but without seeing the truck, it's hard to give you good information and an accurate diagnosis.

 

[ljedik]

Thanks guys, I do appreciate all your input, I agree that we can discuss it till our fingertips are bloody but in the end the Truck need to be inspected by someone who is an expert in these things and hopefully not going to rip me off

Your prabably right about the E-brake, the pedal does work and release so I will pull the rear tire off this weekend, thats a job I'm well capable of, its the cable I was worried about, I guess the dealership got me all worried and I havent actually gotten on my hands and knees to inspect it myself.

As for the Breaks, they work, but they loose tension at the lower speed and they tend to let go a bit and theres a slight crackling noise. Sorry I cannot describe it any better than that. I will have to take it in to look at.

My 10 day Inspection is due tomorrow, I called the DMV and they will not give me an extension. I hope none of you are cops that are reading this!

 

[410Fortune]

in Colorado we have a 30 day grace period after your plate tages expire. Is it similar in NY or no?

 

[ljedik]

no, here in NYS when you register your vehicle, they ask if you need a 10-Day inspection sticker you stick that in your windshield and after the 10 days if you haven't gotten it inspected, you start using more back roads!

Now on the up side, theres nothing on the sticker that will alert a passing cop to know its expired until he pulls you over. I suspect that you would be wearing your luck thin by keeping it on there.

 

[jimcom]

What the dealership is telling you about the E-brake cable "seizing" is sounding earily similar to what they did with mine. Replaced the cable and both front and rear e-brake assemblies. Something to that effect, I wish I had saved that paperwork, but it was 2 years ago when I had that done. But what I do remember is them saying either the e-brake was rusted or seized. I asked if they meant stretched, they said no, that it wouldn't move at all. It was under my ESP and I had it in to do the rear wiper moter, so I didn't care about the cost and didn't really question it too much since I was already paying 100 bucks, no matter how much work they were doing. But wow, 1550 bucks!

If you don't like the idea of a "mom and pop" shop, and want a national chain, I have had decent luck with firestone service centers. Hopefully they are okay up in NY too (if you have them). They do pretty much your basic stuff, a little more expensive than the little guy down the street, but far cheaper than the stealer.
Let us know what the real deal is when you get it into a shop!
Good Luck!

 

[Wade Lippman]

I have only been there once, but I just had a good experience with Fairport Ford. They estimated a repair at $750 and found they could do it for $250 once they got into it.
Bit of a drive for you, but if you don't find any good alternatives...

 

[ljedik]

My neighbor saw me with my wheel assembly all apart yesterday and I got talking to him about the problems and he has given me a contact to call. A good friend of his who is a mechanic. He works mostly on race cars but he said he does repair work on the side and he would help me. So I'll try him. I want to believe that this problem is something simple like the Master cylinder. The E-brake I've bought new pads and am doing that today, I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe I'll get some pictures so you can see the condition there in. I'll check back in later.

 

[hunterdan]

Try disconnecting the ABS sensor from one of the front wheels at the frame. The ABS light will turn on, but it will deactivate the ABS. My truck would do the something similar. It would brake fine then at around 10 mph or so it would shudder, feel the ABS kick in, pedal would go down then be fine again. I disconnected the sensor and it doesn't do it any more. It definitely sounds like an ABS sensor to me. I'd replace mine, but its in the hub/bearing assembly and I dont want to pay $130 for the whole unit when all I need is a sensor. Crawl under your truck, while all wheels are chocked and wont move, and have someone hit the e-brake, then watch to see if the cable moves, or the levers on the back of the rear brakes move. If everything moves your good with the cable. Feel how much tension is on the cable, if theres not a lot, to the point where you can move it when the e-brake is fully engaged, then tighten up the adjusters. If the levers on the back of the rear brakes aren't moving, and everything is tight, then spray it with penetrating oil and tap it with a small hammer, not hard, but enough to get it to move. Then try the brake again. As for unplugging the ABS sensor, if you follow the wire out of the hub, it will go up to the bumper and plug in. Just unplug it and zip tie it out of the way so it doesn't hang down. If your pedal still drops at 10-15 mph, then you are not having an ABS related issue and can plug it back in. But I believe that you have a faulty sensor.

Dan

 

[ljedik]

Is there such thing as buying a used Hub assembly from the Junk yard or do I not want to take that risk? Maybe they wouldnt sell me that...I dont know, but we have a good junk yard here in Auburn and I was thinking of giving them a call to get a used one, it'll be cheaper and I'll know if that is the culprit! I guess $130 isnt all that bad if it solves my issue. Do you have to replace both left and right Hub assemblies when doing it? can I just do the Drivers side?

 

[410Fortune]

Doesnt pulling the ABS fuse also disable the ABS system and return you to regular braking?

You might try that to confirm if the braking issues are ABS related or not.
I would not trust a used wheel bearing assembly. Many of the trucks int he yards sit at auction for a year or so before they are even bought then moved to a yard then sit longer..
Now with that said of course it is possible to find the parts used in good working order but I would be cautious.

My 93 front hub and axle assembly cost about $35 to do a complete wheel bearing job per side, man I dont know about these newer trucks with the non service-able parts...