Help! Fuel injection type and a V8 Mod

[Mean_Green]

fellow explorer enthusiast:

I am doing a V8 mod in which I am swapping a 98' "Mercury Mountaineer" AWD power plant/ drive line into my 2001 (job 2) 2wd ford explorer sport trac. And I Have hit my first major problem...

My 2001 explorer uses a return less system for the fuel injection and I thought the 98's did too... well that my be true but my 98 is made in late 97 and it definitely has the return style fuel system.

HELP!... So What are my options? can I buy a new fuel pump and add another fuel line and I will be ok? Is the fuel pumps wiring/ gas tank on my car ok or will more suff have to come from the donor car?

Thankyou for your time and your help,

-Don D. aka Mean_Green

 

[Mean_Green]

just read the explorer 911 policy... sorry should have done that first... well I think its a 911 emergency (have 4 days to complete mod on daily driver... ya i am a idiot) but it might be better in another category

/sorry
Don D. aka Mean_Green

 

[joshuaj0214]

I used a mid year 98 mounty drivetrain for my swap and it is a return style system also. I would think you could add a return line and a earlier style pump/pickup assembly but I can't say for sure. The electronics(ECM) may not work with this.

 

[Cobraguy]

Let's leave all legalities aside as depending on state regs, you won't pass emissions with this the way you have it planned. You can only go forward in years, not backwards. (as far as the emissions packages are concerned) It also must be an available combination in the vehicle you are putting this in. Since the 5.0 wasn't available in the Sport Trac, this must not be a concern to you. This leaves the door wide open as to how to fix this. I see two choices. You can add the return system and use the '98 PCM and peripherals. The VSS should work, but since you are playing with a 2WD and a 4WD, that doesn't sound like the wisest choice. I'm not sure what issues you will have and if you will have DTC's to deal with. If this were me, since the 01 has returnless, I would round up the necessary components to switch the 5.0 over to returnless. That will probably be a fuel pump, (the 4.0 pump may work!) the correct ECM to control the fuel pressures, and the correct fuel rail, injectors, and peripherals. This won't be the cheapest, but it should create the less headaches. Also, much of what you would need is usually available on eBay for dirt cheap. For example, I have an ECM for this exact calibration that I picked up for $15.

 

[Mean_Green]

i am in Florida "and we done aint have'nt herd of any done-derr state regulatory stuff"

also I figure since the explorer was available in 01 with the v8 5.0 and mine is an 01 explorer (cough sport trac cough) then it would be ok

 

[joshuaj0214]

You will be fine if you use the drivetrain from a 01. I think the 00 use a returnless system also. If you pick up a whole donor, your life will be a lot easier, trust me!

 

[rwenzing]

1999 through 2001 Explorer 5.0L are returnless, so those years could supply the engine compartment components for a 2001 Trac. At a minimum, to convert the 98 engine, you would need the 99~01 PCM, fuel rail with pulse damper, injectors, MAF sensor, Cam Position Sensor and engine wiring harness. I'm probably forgetting something but that's a good start.

You would also need the PATS module, PATS tranceiver, different generation PATS keys and custom wiring because the 2001.5 Trac PATS is PCM-based and the 5.0 Explorer PATS is not. Either that or find a way to turn PATS off in software.

Next is the speedometer which is driven from the rear ABS signal on the 5.0, not from the transmission as on a stock 2001.5 Trac. The Explorer needs a module for the speedometer signal correction which you don't have in the Trac (again, currently done in the PCM on yours).

The Trac tachometer is easy to correct for the V8 by changing the pin position of a wire in the harness behind the cluster.

 

[Cobraguy]

The VSS signal is a valid consideration. The 5.0 signal comes from the ABS module. It utilizes any of the ABS sensors for the signal and distributes that where necessary. That's true on the 99 model regardless of engine. I don't have the information on the 01, but assumed (there I go again) it to be the same. If so, you don't have any problem. If not, you will need to work around it. I will say this, I see no module in the 99 5.0 speedo. The signal comes from the ABS module to the Speedometer. No module. And since the 01 Sport Trac speedo will work in the 98/up Explorer, I am not sure what rwenzing means there by needing a module. This is news to me.

Because the 5.0 was available in the Explorer does NOT make it legal in your model. Not in this state anyway...and many others. But what do you care since you don't have to worry about it in FL? Yet...

I'm thinking most the sensors from you 98 engine will work with the 01 PCM. If not, just switch to the 01 sensors. Most should be in the same location.

 

[rwenzing]

I am not sure what rwenzing means there by needing a module. This is news to me.

The 2001.5 Sport Trac takes the low voltage speed signal from the OSS sensor on the transmission. In the PCM, the signal is changed to a 0~12v square wave and it is adjusted for tire diameter and axle ratio to yield 8000 pulses/mile. That adjusted square wave is sent to the speedometer, speed control, 4WABS module, etc.

The 98~2001 Explorer is different. The basic speed pulse originates from the rear axle ABS sensor and is sent to the 4WABS Module where it is changed to the 0~12v square wave and adjusted for tire diameter to yield 8000 pulses/mile. The 4WABS Module sends the corrected pulse train to the PCM, speed control, speedometer, etc.

When the 2001.5 ST is converted to a 99~2001 Ex V8, there is no longer a module available to make the conversion. The OE ST 4WABS module can't do it and the OE ST PCM would no longer be there.

 

[410Fortune]

get the fuel rail and pcm from the 01 5.0L truck and run it with your stock Sport Trac fuel pump as these guys described. Going backwards to 98 would be difficult due to the differences in the PCM controlling the fuel pump and pressure, the different 8.8 mounted stator sensor.

I believe you may also need to swap the DTRS (digital transmission range sensor) the 97-98.5 is different then the 98.5+ on the side of the 4r70w transmission

The 5.0L computer does not care if the truck is 2wd or 4x4, the 5.0L AWD t case has nothing to do with the V8 computer making it easier for you.

Are you putting the AWD t case in the sport trac and converting to 4x4 front end?
also where are the pics!
I have partial ownership of a 01 Sport Trac and I love the 5.0L V8's I would love to put the 5.0L drivetrain in that 01 truck over the weekend

 

[Cobraguy]

The 2001.5 Sport Trac takes the low voltage speed signal from the OSS sensor on the transmission. In the PCM, the signal is changed to a 0~12v square wave and it is adjusted for tire diameter and axle ratio to yield 8000 pulses/mile. That adjusted square wave is sent to the speedometer, speed control, 4WABS module, etc.

The 98~2001 Explorer is different. The basic speed pulse originates from the rear axle ABS sensor and is sent to the 4WABS Module where it is changed to the 0~12v square wave and adjusted for tire diameter to yield 8000 pulses/mile. The 4WABS Module sends the corrected pulse train to the PCM, speed control, speedometer, etc.

When the 2001.5 ST is converted to a 99~2001 Ex V8, there is no longer a module available to make the conversion. The OE ST 4WABS module can't do it and the OE ST PCM would no longer be there.

This could be a problem. I do know there are aftermarket solutions for VSS signals. That may be a place to look. Or he may need to do some wiring and see if he can't use a 98-01 ABS module with an 01 5.0 pcm.

By the way, the 98-01 ABS module will output a VSS from ANY of the three ABS sensors...not just the rear. I just ran across one where the only ABS sensor on the car was the LF...and everything was just fine (except the ABS system!)

 

[rwenzing]

The 98~01 Explorer 4WABS Module could be used for the speedometer but then he would lose the electronic proportioning (EBFD) used in the Trac 4WABS Module. The 5.0L Explorer had a conventional mechanical proportioning valve and an acceleration sensor that would need to be moved over along with the 4WABS Module. The wiring pinout is also different between the Trac 4WABS module and the 98~2001 Ex 4WABS modules.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I had the same speedometer problem when I swapped the 5.0 into my 03 Ranger. From an electrical point of view, a 2001~2003 Ranger is a first cousin to a 2001.5~2003 Sport Trac.

I chose not to use the 98~2001 5.0 Ex 4WABS module and its peripherals because I wanted to retain the factory EBFD.

My solution was to add a second GEM from a 2001 Ranger 2.5L and assign it the sole task of converting the rear ABS sensor input to the square wave required by the PCM, speedometer, cruise, Message Center, radio and original 03 Ranger GEM. I wired up the rear ABS sensor to the 01 GEM and stock 03 4WABS module in parallel. A dealer calibration tool was used to set the revs/mile parameter in the 01 GEM to match my trucks tire diameter.

 

[Mean_Green]

thanks for all the posts... so can i just steal 98 module from my donor car to get the abs system to work as the vss

also yes i am adding a 4x4 front end with the same 3.73 gear ratio as my rear axle and the new abs sensors.... I actually had not heard about the VSS problem although i was starting to realize something was up because i could not find a vss senor in my 4r70w/aode

 

[Mean_Green]

i think i will do the dual GEM module mod as suggested by rwenzing

 

[Mean_Green]

oh... and i bought a 2000 model engine and have ordered the pcm... will i have problems using the 98's pats module and key starting this pcm for the first start?

 

[410Fortune]

you will also have wiring changes to make, there are wiring changes at the computer and transmission between 98 and 2000 (wires change positions at the computer from year to year)

I would just plan on disabling the ABS system if it was my truck

 

[Mean_Green]

what is this about a transmission digital range senor or such being different... dose this mean the 98 transmission will not work at all with the 2000 pcm... can the sensor be changed easily?

 

[410Fortune]

yes its easy to change but there is more to it then that

I know 97.5 DTRS is different then the 98+ DTRS, the earlier version sends an analog signal, the 98 DTRS is truly digital
ALSO the wiring pins change locations

So
when you plug in a 2000 computer to a 98 wiring harness you are going to run into issues, wires are in the wrong locations at the computer, some sensors are different including the DTRS
my guess is you will need the wiring books for both the 98 harness and the 2000 PCM

 

[Mean_Green]

well i have a 2000 engine and engine harness but is the transmission pig tail harness different... the grey pug that goes from the 2000 engine harness looks the same but i know that dose not mean anything... I do have a 2000 motor and complete engine harness only. I do not have anything else ie wires that go from transmission plug onward and I have a complete 98 (97) donor car to work with.

 

[rwenzing]

oh... and i bought a 2000 model engine and have ordered the pcm... will i have problems using the 98's pats module and key starting this pcm for the first start?

For the type B PATS in the 98~01 4-door Explorer, the PATS module is separate from the PCM. When the truck is newly built on the assembly line, the PCM and PATS module are introduced to each other to make them work as a set. If you put the PATS module out of one truck with the PCM from another, they will have to be reintroduced using a dealer tool.