Help me diagnose bad noises in front end

[bluevolume]

The front end on my 01 XLT is getting REALLY noisy -- I've got to get under there and figure out what's going on. When driving on any un-even surface (even slightly worn roads) I get this constant knocking sound. To me it sounds like maybe my shocks aren't bolted on tight enough. I tried to re-torque them today and found it impossible, the shock just spins and I have no way of getting ahold of it without crushing it. Regardless, it looks like they are tight.

When driving on a bumpy road, it sounds like the whole front end is going to just come loose. Lots of knocks, bangs, and rattles. I looked around under there last time I changed the oil, but there aren't any visible problems. What I need to do is jack it up and look for specific problems, but I'm not sure where to start. What things should I do to check the tie rod ends, ball joints, shocks, wheel bearings, etc? Are there some common things I can look for? I don't have the cash to just start replacing everything, I need to figure out what's causing it.

I've got about 70K, with new Monro shocks put on 2 years ago. The best way to describe it is its like driving an old school bus that knocks and bangs over every mark in the road.

Any help would be greatly appreciated -- I need to get this fixed.

 

[bluevolume]

I got under there today and I still can't find whats wrong. Both wheels feel secure, no wobbling in any direction. The steering feels tight as well. I don't see anything hanging or broken.

Any idea what I'm missing here?

 

[Diddy74]

I have some phantom squeaks and clunks also,The frustrating thing is the noises are more prominent while your in motion and the weight of the vehicle combined with road irregularites makes them more apparent. Im leaning toward the clunking coming from the torsion bar key padding worn out and banging metal on metal, and the squeaks probably from the sway bar bushings which a good greasing would cure. Is your handling off? An alignment wouldnt hurt. Good luck

 

[Turdle]

Im leaning toward the clunking coming from the torsion bar key padding worn out and banging metal on metal,

I'm wondering if worn control arm bushings aren't allowing for a thrust- knock, or in other words the rear end of the torsion bars move side to side slightly, in this area, as I'm experiencing this also.

 

[Diddy74]

I'm wondering if worn control arm bushings aren't allowing for a thrust- knock, or in other words the rear end of the torsion bars move side to side slightly, in this area, as I'm experiencing this also.

Anything is possible, when ive looked, grabbed,pulled, tried to twist or flex suspension components my mere human strength isnt enough to recreate the same force the weight of the vehicle in motion will. Everything seems tight but I know when I go over a speed bump or just navigating nyc potholes there is a clunk I can almost feel thru the floor boards so i'm guessing it is torsion bar related also. Since were discussing phantom noises I also have a annoying rattle thats coming from the rear cargo area like around the windows somewhere. I looked at the liftgate and glass struts they seem fine but every bump somethinhg back there is definetly rattling around

 

[Turdle]

Could it be the glass hatch rattling. Wrap some duct tape around the latch loop, see if it goes away. If it does you can adjust the latch by bending it gently

 

[Diddy74]

Could it be the glass hatch rattling. Wrap some duct tape around the latch loop, see if it goes away. If it does you can adjust the latch by bending it gently

I checked everything the door and window are snug, the paneling is somewhat loose but its definelty a metallic sound...ony cute I can think of is turn up the radio!!

 

[Turdle]

Maybe a wire harness loom has come loose inside rear panel. It comes off easy.

 

[dreamr]

I am saying balljoints or tierods. More likely the former.

Jack the front end of the vehicle up. Grab a front tire at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock. Try to wiggle it. Any play will indicate bad ball joints. (uppers seem to go first but you can kinda tell if it's top or bottom that is allowing the tire play) Hopefully you will find lower play as the uppers are a one piec unit with the control arm and are a bit pricey

If you grab the tire at 9 and 3 then wiggle Play will typically indicate a Tie-rod or rack issue.

If you are not willing to let someone who knows more test and diagnose I would suggest doing these tests and replacing what is worn. Often a visual inspection with the tire off can tell a tale of more major woes.

Parts and prices just so ya know
-Lower ball joints......go with greasable Moogs 25-30 per side
-Upper balljoint/ control arm assembly Moog has a 2-piece design nerxt time you just replace the joint 100-130 per side (rockauto is usually 108)
-Outer Tierod end Moog again ~35 per side
-Inner Tierod ends Moog ~25 per side


I offer all the prices just FYI. And figure I am the type of person who replaces all 4 when one tierod or balljoint wears out. I figure if they were installed around the same time they'll wear out at similar rates....not always true....



Anyway my vote is for balljoints cause when the lowers go it sounds like your front end is gonna fall off on City streets..........And in truth that's not to far off. Uppers do clunk but tend to get really squeeky as well.

 

[dreamr]

I forgot to respond to the wheel bearing part of your post. It is unlikely that the bearing is causing all this clunking and such......

The wheel bearings and hubs are a sealed integrated unit. When they go they tend to hum, grate, groan or howl......especially when you turn to that side.....

Easy replacement but the parts are usually 200 per side give or take a bit depending on source

 

[Turdle]

I'm going with this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ball...hZ019QQitemZ8072114701QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

These have the grease zerts

 

[gucc]

I had same problem. Was easy fix.

I couldn't figure out the issue either and had bad thoughts like it might be the torsion bars.
Start with the stabilizer bar links. Its hard to diagnose them while sitting still. I can't remember if they were $30 each or $30 total, but the rattle was gone. Bad design but easy fix.

 

['97 V8]

I'm going with this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ball...hZ019QQitemZ8072114701QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

These have the grease zerts

Jt, your the man. Ive been looking for that on ebay recently. Great find.

 

[Turdle]

The way I look at it, if you're going to tear into it, tear into it

Now to find lower control arm bushings

 

[bluevolume]

I am saying balljoints or tierods. More likely the former.

Jack the front end of the vehicle up. Grab a front tire at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock. Try to wiggle it. Any play will indicate bad ball joints. (uppers seem to go first but you can kinda tell if it's top or bottom that is allowing the tire play) Hopefully you will find lower play as the uppers are a one piec unit with the control arm and are a bit pricey...

Thank you for the info, that will certainly get me started.

 

[dreamr]

That kit is a great find!!!!
I spent a lot more than that on all of the individual parts.....though I still prefer Moog parts

 

[Homerexplorer]

Tie rod ends and ball joints should be pretty easy to identify, as described by Dreamr. It helps if you have a 2nd person to do the the pushing/pulling so that you can look at the ball joints/tie rod ends - sometimes it's hard to notice movement when you're doing it. When you check the lower ball joints, I found it helpful to put my head against the top of the tire and pull out and up on the bottom of the tire. The first time I checked mine, I missed it.

If it were the bearings, you would probably hear them growl or a low hum while you're driving, not a clunk when you hit bumps.

With that said, If you have checked the ball joints and tie rod ends, I would start with the stabalizer links like gucc says. They are hard to test/identify and the bushing are notorious for going bad. 70k, it's that time. Plus they're easy and relatively cheap.

 

[bluevolume]

I'm looking through my Haynes manual, and it says that the ball joints aren't replaceable (neither upper or lower). What's that about? It also says that you can't use a torch on it, probably why they tell you you can't do it. I know I needed to use heat when I changed the joints on my last Ex.

Any procedures online, hopefully with pictures?

 

[dreamr]

For the lowers just use a standard ball joint press to press them out and the new ones in. We used a bit of heat to get the olkd out, and put the new in the freezer overnight to help installation. The upper joints are not replaceable except as a one piece control arm ball joint assembly.

 

[Homerexplorer]

I did mine - no heat needed. They advise against it because the heat can remove the temper on the control arm. Do a search here for replacing ball joints-there are several threads with alternative methods and pics. The press is a must for the lowers (they are replaceable) and the uppers are integrated with the arms so the whole thing must be replaced. I also used a Pitman puller (2 jaw) to remove the lower from the knuckle.