HELP PLEASE FOR SOA

[JoshC]

This wasn't getting many looks under the other title so i just changed it to over here:

Alright, get your brains fired up and ready to think.

I did this but it didn't work right. I measure the thickness of my springs, just a shade under 2.25". Measured the thickness of my axle with the old perch, 3.5" i think, together that makes 5.75". Okay, so i lugged the axle out from under the truck, and man that sucker is heavy! Anyways, took it to the machine shop, showed the welder what i wanted done with the new perches and then i showed him the shackles and told him i wanted 5.75" cut off and new holes drilled. No problem so far right? Well he was good enought to squeeze me in today cause he was busy, so i wasn't complaining, but he did an excellent job welding and cutting. Got home put the shackles, little oh things, on the truck, hooked up my springs, waited for my buddy to get there to help get the axle out of my truck and on the ground. He gets there and we start hooking things up and i start to notice that something isn't right. Well, i'm not sure how it happened but i came up with this:

Now tell me something isn't right there???? I don't know how it happened, but if i were to have left the shackles untouch then i swear on everything i have it would have given me over 10" lift, and i'm not kidding. Come to find out the shackles are cut at 5", not 5.75". I measure from the bottom of the perch on the bottom to the top of the top leaf spring after the conversion and it came up to be 7". My shackles can't get any shorter because when i put the axle on they are hitting the frame, with out the axle they were fine, here look:

If i were to put my 31" tire on the truck right now in the drive way i could drive away and i would have over a foot of clearance. This has been the worst week of my life so far, everything that could go wrong is going wrong. My grandpa is dying, i worked on my fiancee's legacy wagon (which i will never do again) all freaking week cross threading every freaking bolt, and now this didn't work out.

Someone tell me what i did wrong. The new perches are a little higher then old ones, but not enought to make up that many inches. I am really close to going to a junk yard and picking up an 8.8 off of a ranger and also getting the leaf spring brackets off the frame because in order for the ranger to set up like it does, the brackets are on the out side of the frame and back one, is actually above the bottom of the frame if i remember right. Someone help, i'm going to have to convert this thing back over in the morning which isn't a big deal, just a pain in the butt. I only spent about $60 on everything with labor so it's not like it killed but this should have worked and i want to know where i messed up. Thanks!

Happy trails!!

 

[Harry5150]

Why did you cut the shackles down? What was the total number of inches you were going for?

 

[TarHeel085]

wel you could try takin off your add-a-leaf and overload spring and see how that works. i cant beleive this didnt work. in theory it should.

 

[JoshC]

Harry--the reason i cut the shackles down was to keep the same height that i have now. See what i mean, trying to counter act to the SOA by cutting them.

Tarheel--you and me are both stumped. I don't know why it didn't work, that's why i put this thread, maybe someone can tell me what i did wrong because i really want this to happen!

Happy trails!!

 

[TarHeel085]

well HAVE you put back on your tires? cause you could have a lot of sag and it would bring you back down. also how much lift did you get from the add-a-leaf? that could be some of your problems right there. hope some of this helps.

 

[JDraper]

You made a goof in your math. Whenever you change shackle length, the change in height at the wheels is only half of that since you are only moving one end of the spring. Cutting 5" out of the shackles will only change the ride height by 2.5". Cutting the shackles down was also a mistake. You need the shackle length so the spring doesn't whack the frame when it compresses, as you're finding out. This is also probably why your springs aren't compressing as much when you put weight on them. They are hitting the frame which is preventing them from compressing to their normal position.
It also looks like your driveline angle is off from the one photo. (Kinda hard to tell). It looks like your axle should be rotated backwards quite a bit more to try and align the pinion better with the driveshaft. Time to re-weld the spring perches or put in angle shims.

A SOA will give you a LOT of lift. That's why it's done. Take a look at Lizardtrac's truck and you will see how much it does lift the truck.

 

[2001ExpSport]

You can't just weld on some spring perches, they have to be at the right angle so that the driveshaft and pinion shaft are aligned. Incorrect angles will tear up the pinion shaft bearings, seals and U-joints. Plus you'll get some nasty vibrations.

So you cut off 5.75" off of what shackles? WP? So that means you have like a 4" shackle? This is the main reason why I haven't done this. There isn't a good enough way to do the SOA without gaining at least 5". Then you have to crank the torsion bars to the max and that is asking for trouble. I had mine cranked almost full and blew a hub last november. Yes, I know, there are guys here who will rant and rave about how they have had no problems. Trying to get lift out of your truck the cheap way isn't worth it in my opinion. With money you'll save on repairs you can buy a real lift.

To be honest, I think you should forget about the SOA for now. It's too close to Paragon and if it's not right and it grenades on the trail how do you plan to get home? Just something to think about.

 

[JoshC]

Thanks for the concern fellas, but i'm really not trying to get a "cheap lift." I'm trying to get no more lift at all. I just want to keep my same height but gain some ground clearance.

Jeff--Yeah i never thought about the shackles being that small when i took the measurements, but i did find that out the hard way today when i put my rims back on and took it for a drive. Man, talking about a brick, it doesn't give any in the rear, kinda funny though. I see what you are saying about the goof in the math, thanks for showing me that, now i know. I can always put in shims.

TarHeel--I actually don't think i gained any from my ad-a-leaf, i don't know how it is suppose to work out, but mine is pretty flat and pretty thick, i just bought it really for the added weight on the rear when i hawl stuff around. These perches aren't coming off, they are on there, he did "to good of a job" welding them on. But that's better then a poor job!

Matt--for now the SOA is back to normal. It really isnt' a big pain in the butt to switch it over, so that's why i wasn't worried about doing it. I didn't just weld on perches, i actually did exactly what the rest of the guy did on here. I went off of the bottom perch and it is exactly squared, but man that extra height just throws the angel off something awful like Jeff said. My shackle right now might be about 3" long, it's pretty funny looking! No biggy though, i'll just pick up some next week. I was going to put my factory ones on but man i can't find those anywhere.

Well one good thing about this, it's already done for future use. One of these days i'll get a lift. Also, i haven't given up on this either, you all wait and see, i'll rig something up that works and if it happens to be before Paragon i'll be sure and try it out first, but i don't think it's going to happen that quick. Thanks fellas!

Happy trails!!

 

[KEbert]

Do you have your add a leaf under the factory overload spring? That's what the pic looks like.

 

[JoshC]

I'm not sure which spring is the overload spring. I have it second from the bottom if that does you any good.

I wasn't sure if i put the link up to the pics, but here it is anyways: SOA

So what does it matter where the ad-a-leaf goes KEbert??

Thanks.

Happy trails!!

 

[TarHeel085]

i had another thought, you could go and buy a mono leaf from a sport, cut off the spacers on the bottom, and then do the SOA with that.

 

[2001ExpSport]

Originally posted by Jot017
Thanks for the concern fellas, but i'm really not trying to get a "cheap lift." I'm trying to get no more lift at all. I just want to keep my same height but gain some ground clearance.

I know you aren't trying to do a cheap lift, I was just calling it that. Some guys I have met crank the **** out of thier torsion bars and then do some horsesh!t in the back. It's cheap and it breaks.

Matt--for now the SOA is back to normal. It really isnt' a big pain in the butt to switch it over, so that's why i wasn't worried about doing it. I didn't just weld on perches, i actually did exactly what the rest of the guy did on here. I went off of the bottom perch and it is exactly squared, but man that extra height just throws the angel off something awful like Jeff said. My shackle right now might be about 3" long, it's pretty funny looking! No biggy though, i'll just pick up some next week. I was going to put my factory ones on but man i can't find those anywhere.

Well one good thing about this, it's already done for future use. One of these days i'll get a lift. Also, i haven't given up on this either, you all wait and see, i'll rig something up that works and if it happens to be before Paragon i'll be sure and try it out first, but i don't think it's going to happen that quick. Thanks fellas!

Again, I wasn't trying to imply that you went about this blind. I was just kind of talking in general. What happens when you match up the perches to the stock perches is you get a different angle once it's installed. That you found out. Toss the 3" shackle, it's not even close to long enough. I know you are not an idiot, sorry if it sounded that way. It's just a pain when people do stuff real quick and then it breaks on the trail. Then everyone else has to spend half the day getting the person back to where ever.

Just trying to give you a different perspective.....I really am a nice guy....honest...

 

[2001ExpSport]

BTW, the overload spring or "helper" spring is flat.

 

[2001ExpSport]

Originally posted by Jot017
I'm not sure which spring is the overload spring. I have it second from the bottom if that does you any good.

I wasn't sure if i put the link up to the pics, but here it is anyways: SOA

So what does it matter where the ad-a-leaf goes KEbert??

Thanks.

Happy trails!!

They should be longest to shortest.

0___________0
________
______
___

Kinda like that, with the helper being on the bottom. I have an add-a-leaf and replaced the helper with it.

 

[JoshC]

Matt--I was just cranky man, i had spent all freaking day on this thing and then all the next day putting it back over. I do appriciate your help thought. Yeah about the lengths, when i put my ad-a-leaf in i just put in where it looked liked it belonged in the pack. That was a pain in the but!!

TarHeel--what is your name by the way, just curious? I never thought about using the mono leaf, but wouldn't that be way to weak for my 4dr? I'm still not sure that would give me enough "loss" in inches. But say i did try that, how long would my shackles have to be for them to function correctly, come on Jeff, i never said i was any good at math!!

Happy trails!!

 

[TarHeel085]

my name's Curtis. but yeah the mono would be weaker so that way it would sag, thus reducing the height of it. but it would ride like a boat so you would need some stiff shocks to counteract it.

 

[JoshC]

my name's Curtis

I guess it does say that in your profile

So what kind of shocks would you have in mind for this job? Also, if i used the mono, if you think about it, well once i start to think about it i don't know if it would work, because at the most load i wouldn't want to put spring completly leveled out, so i don't know. I'll have to take a look at that tomorrow to see how that would line up.

Happy trails!!

 

[KEbert]

You mentioned that you were trying to keep the same amount of height but gain ground clearance. Do you mean the shock mounts and that clearance or overall clearance of the entire vehicle?

 

[JoshC]

Not the whole vehicle, just the rear axle, getting rid over everything under the axle.

Happy trails!!

 

[jasonb]

not sure about this... but if your really up for doing that SOA and keeping the same ride height.. you could fab up a mount on the side of the fram for the shackles and move the springs out a bit. i haven't looked to see if this is possible, but isn't that how the ranger is done? i'm guessing you would have to know how to weld stuff good or would need to take it to a shop. just an idea...