help.. squeek on startup .. not pully related

[dreamr]

I am a bit baffled and would love a bit of input from all of you more knowledgeable than myself.

For the last several weeks my truck has had a bit of chirping going on right after startup. It was much more pronounced in cold wet weather untill recently when it has turned into a much louder squak.

I had originally figured it was either the idler or tensioner going out though I had replaced them both with the serp. belt last fall. I ignored it for a couple weeks figuring I knew what it was. Today I got paid and decided that I would look into it a bit further. Basically conserve a few bucks and isolate the guilty pulley. Everything turned smoothly with no odd noises (A/c, idler, tensioner, PS, and water pump/fan) I thought that was odd, so started one by one lubricating pulleys and testing it with the belt on. The squeek continued, so I pulled the belt completely and started the truck. In essence nothing should be turning except the internals of the engine.

Sadly the squeek continued. Since the fan wasn't turning with no belt I poked around a bit listening and found that the by now very loud squeeking and squaking was the loudest when I laid under the truck. It semed to be centered in the area toward the front of the oil pan.

I had planned on heading into the hills this weekend for some camping, hiking, and fishing. Now I am a bit nervous getting to far back in the mountains where most tow trucks can't go. Furthermore I am a bit nervous about driving period.

So know that I have filled in a few details can anyone tell me what is going on in there? Furthermore can I still drive it for a couple weeks untill I have cash to take it to the stealership as I just ordered SAS parts and spent most of my money before isolating my squeek????

 

[dreamr]

Sorry, but just one little bump as this has drifted down to page three and I thinks me is going camping anyway...... I'll just have to camp close to the main road, and hike into the wilderness rather than drive 10+ miles in on crappy little roads... Of course I am still sitting at the computer screen watching for a solution in the meantime.

 

[96limitedX]

could it have somthing to do with the fan? sounds weird to me.. my idler made a loud whineing noise when it was redy to go. not a sound like your saying..im really dont know. but maybe the fan or somthing to do with it..would be my best guess.

 

[Cali' Explorer]

Well, not something you want to hear, but could it possibly be the front seal Crankshaft Seal? This would be just behind the main engine pulley, and would be more front and bottom located than anythign else in the engine. Its also what the crankshaft rides on... so its possible, but if that's what's squeeking, that certainly can't be happiness for your truck.

Did you get under it with a stethoscope to confirm the exact area its coming from? Listening by ear can be a tricky thing in an engine compartment because sound travels short distances so easy.

 

[dreamr]

could it have somthing to do with the fan? sounds weird to me.. my idler made a loud whineing noise when it was redy to go. not a sound like your saying..im really dont know. but maybe the fan or somthing to do with it..would be my best guess.

Nope, without the drivebelt (serpentine) in place the fan does not spin, nor do any of the pulleys with the exception of the crankshaft pulley.

Well, not something you want to hear, but could it possibly be the front seal Crankshaft Seal? This would be just behind the main engine pulley, and would be more front and bottom located than anythign else in the engine. Its also what the crankshaft rides on... so its possible, but if that's what's squeeking, that certainly can't be happiness for your truck.

Did you get under it with a stethoscope to confirm the exact area its coming from? Listening by ear can be a tricky thing in an engine compartment because sound travels short distances so easy.

No that is not something I want to hear, but at the same time was my first thought when I heard the squak after removing the drivebelt. The one thing that does not seem right to me if the seal is going though, is that there are absolutely no leaks under my truck.

I don't have a stethescope, though it would be a very good investment so I can't precisely point to it. However I am rather certain that it is in the lower part of the engine, though front or back of the oil pan is hard to pinpoint.

If this is the case, what am I looking at work wise? Once we get inside the motor my shade tree mechanical skills get to be sadly lacking. I am still under warranty, but don't have the 200 deductible till the 5th of next month, though I am sure I can pull it out of the air somehow if I HAVE too.

Any other thoughts or advice folks?

 

[96limitedX]

how many miles?(just wondering)

 

[rookieshooter]

Don't need to buy a store bought stethescope, you allready have one..........use a long scewdriver, place blade end on engine block, altenator, valve cover etc. place your ear directly on end of the handle, or you can place your thumb on handle then ear to thumb, plastic works better then a wood handle. Try what I say on the altenator or valve cover first, you will be amazed on how the sound waves and vibrations travel up the to your ear. Now it is no longer a screwdriver but a media for the sound to ger to your ear. It acts just like the old needles in a old record player. Oh yea, a long 3/8 extension also works.

 

[Cali' Explorer]

Correct on the screwdriver. The other thing with the seal is, it IS possible for that to be the squeak but have no leak (haha, that's rhymes). If somehow the seal is blocked from the back side, this could be the case. Also, seals typically have 2 surfaces that contact the crank, one on the inside and one on the outside. Typically, oil seeps through the first and lubricates the seal, preventing the second from leaking, but if the first is preventing oil from coming through, its possible the seal has become dried out adn that's where the squeak is coming from. Its also possible that the squeak is coming from something contacting the seal.

Another question, how long does the squeak last after you start? Is it constant at idle? Also, is it pronounced enough to sound like its outside the engine? It could possibly be something like a cam chain or tensioner that isn't properly getting lubed when the engine is on a cold start. Does this noise happen on any start, hot or cold?

If it is the seal, the job isn't terribly, but probably something you want to take care of with your warranty as it requires dropping your crank on your engine to do, but with lower mileage, I highly doubt its the seal... it was just a first thought due to the location.

What about harmonic balancer? Don't the Explorer's have an external harmonic balancer that's mounted on rubber? I guess it could be that squeaking. But, it could also be something as simple as an engine mount that rocks when it starts or something. I think the first key is isolating exactly where the sound is coming from and when it happens.

 

[dreamr]

96limitedX-- it has about 98,000

rookie-- good call me and my 10" 3/8's extension have a date this morning.

cali' explorer-- The noise seems to only occur on cold starts. Though I do occasionally hear it very faintly when warmed up. I would guess that the sound continues for about 10 minutes at a very loud level and slowly quiets down to where it is very faint and unheard over exhaust/engine noise, or it goes away. Startup to quiet seems to be around 10-15 minutes or basically untill the temp gauge is in the normal position and it has been driven for a bit. I doubt it is anything like an engine mount...(you would have to hear to undrstand ) The harmonic balancer is possible I suppose, and i will peek up their when I am playing with the improvised stethescope.

I will be leaving for a few days, but will be back early monday and continue looking into it. Thank you for all the ongoing support everyone.

 

[dreamr]

The closest I could pinpoint it with a makeshift stethescope was to say that the sound seems to be the loudest on the passenger side center of the oil pan. Basically just in front of where the oil filter sits.

 

[davidmmm69]

camshaft position sensor?

 

[dreamr]

camshaft position sensor?

Possible.

I do have the OHV which makes the tensioner unlikely, but the sensor is indeed possible.

Hmm......
She squaked a bit every morning while camping, but ran fine. I went ahead and scheduled a visit to the stealership tomorrow morning so I guess we'll see. I figure they may as well replace a few other parts it needs as well to make my 200 dollar deductible stretch as far as possible.........

I have another odd sound coming from the rear when stretching the suspension, and my passenger side Tierod End is toast. sooooooo.......

 

[Albino 94LTD]

You know you have to FEED the chipmunks once in a while,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,don't you?












How's your oil pressure? What oil are you using?

 

[davidmmm69]

Possible.

I do have the OHV which makes the tensioner unlikely, but the sensor is indeed possible.

Hmm......
She squaked a bit every morning while camping, but ran fine. I went ahead and scheduled a visit to the stealership tomorrow morning so I guess we'll see. I figure they may as well replace a few other parts it needs as well to make my 200 dollar deductible stretch as far as possible.........

I have another odd sound coming from the rear when stretching the suspension, and my passenger side Tierod End is toast. sooooooo.......

I siad that cause that same thing hapened over the winter on my van and took it to my brother in laws school and that is what it was..
sounded to me like a bad bearing or even a belt. but turned out to be camshaft positioning sensor,

 

[dreamr]

You know you have to FEED the chipmunks once in a while,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,don't you?
How's your oil pressure? What oil are you using?

Oil pressure is normal, chipmunks are fed, and I run the higher mileage synthetic oil from Quaker State though it looks like it will be Amsoil soon thanks to the special on here

I siad that cause that same thing hapened over the winter on my van and took it to my brother in laws school and that is what it was..
sounded to me like a bad bearing or even a belt. but turned out to be camshaft positioning sensor,

Interesting, hopefully it is something simple like that!

Thanks for the support and input everyone!

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Bryce, jayhawkexplorer is having the same noise; http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137947

You two can do a duet

 

[jayhawkexplorer]

Yeah, Dreamr we are definitely having the exact same problem. Albino, thanks for connecting the two threads.

Amazing that it looks like we're the first two out of almost 40,000 people to have this problem. I too replaced the belt/idler/tensioner and the noise continued anyway. Its gotten worse for me. It did it for over half an hour yesterday, anytime I let off the gas at all it was easily noticable. Its really loud outside the truck, its embarrassing to drive it with the dang squealing. I had it at Ford last week to have the steering coupler replaced under warranty but they didn't hear the noise on any of the 3 days it was there. Probably because they parked it a mile away from the shop and had some idiot parts runner go grab it, by the time it got to a mechanic it'd quieted down.

The camshaft position sensor is interesting. I'm going to search around on here and see how hard that is and how expensive it is. I've got a warranty with a $100 deductible, and its up in 4,000 miles so I gotta figure it out soon. 105,000 miles right now.

One thing that worries me is that I switched from dino oil to Royal Purple at 97,000 miles. I'd never had any leaking and still haven't, but this noise appeared about 5,000 miles after the switch. I read and read threads all over the Net about whether it was dangerous or not to go synthetic with that many miles.

 

[jayhawkexplorer]

Looks like maybe we're not the only ones.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96355&highlight=camshaft+position+sensor

 

[jayhawkexplorer]

Upon looking at O'Reilly Auto's site, the cam/crank sensors are only $30 each. That's a lot less then paying a deductible and dealing with taking the truck in, getting a rental, etc. How hard are those to put in, anybody know?

 

[Rhett]

jawhawk not only do you and Dreamr have the same cold start chirp, but I have it as well. I too thought it was belt/pully chirp and replaced tensioner, idler, and belt, all to no avail.

Have either of you considered a leak in the header pipes/exhaust manifold?