Help with timing chain parts for v6 SOHC 4.0L

[donalds]

seems all simple except of the part under step 10, were you mentioned "start it and adjust you will feel the pulse of the valve springs. I wonder if I'll really be able to know what that feels like.

You will feel it .
If you adjust to tight you will see the engine stumble

If I go too much I imagine I would put stress on the chain and assembly (without realizing).

If you tighten the chain too much you will simply open a valve And the engine will run poorly Don't overthink ITIT's easy

 

[C420sailor]

Most chain stretch occurs early in an engine’s life. It isn’t purely linear.

And if it stretches a little bit over the course of 50-100k, you’ll hear it. Then…snug the tensioner a little. Fixed. Remember, the purpose of the tensioner is to just take up excess slack. Excess slack calls itself out by making noise.

As we would say in the Navy, you’re ‘nuking’ (overthinking) this.

 

[Addicted]

It's easy to overthink the manual tensioner upgrade.

I am guilty of overthinking all this. I tend to to this with certain situations. I try and look at all the angles on any given task to be sure I got it right from the get go.

If you tighten the chain too much you will simply open a valve And the engine will run poorly Don't overthink ITIT's easy

OK. Thanks for letting me know about that. I'm going to go this route. The Mechanical tensioner it is.

Question, if I have that volume reducing plug (the rod) as shown in the photo below, I would want to remove this if using the mechancical tensioiner? Is this correct? I don't leave that in there?

If you are installing new timing equipment I recommend installing factory tensioners Once the engine is running reinstall the manual ones

You previously mentioned this.

Wouldn't it be easier to install the mechanical tensioner before putting everything back together? I can see those sensors sitting besides the thermostat housing getting in the way. Will be much easier to torque down with nothing in the way.

And the mechanical tensioner would be torqued down at the same specs as with the hydraulic tensioner right? Both front and rear at about 32 ft lbs?

 

[donalds]

What parts are you replacing exactly?

 

[Addicted]

What parts are you replacing exactly?

both front and rear timing chain cassette assemblies along with both jackshaft and balance shaft chain, guides and tensioners.

Will be pulling the engine out.

I have already began slowing purchasing the parts. All ford oem parts only. It'll be a few months before I start the job. Just trying to get it all together right now along with the understanding of all this.

 

[donalds]

I'd Assemble everything with the hydraulic tensioners And add the manual tensioners after a few hundred miles That's just how I would do it

 

[Addicted]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole idea of going with a mechanical tensioner is to eliminate that chain slap during engine start up, yet by suggesting to temporally use my original hydraulic tensioners (after timing component replacement) the engine will have to continue enduring the likelihood of this again (chain slap) for the next few hundred miles.


Also, I got to thinking about what would happen if I over-tighten the mechanical tensioner during the adjustment steps. I don't see how that could possibly cause any valves to open. I believe at worst it may cause the cam chain and gear to wear and add unnecessary stress on the cam.

 

[allmyEXes]

@Addicted I spotted this kit on Ebay and wonder if they are "real" Ford parts.
4.0 SOHC 10 piece timing kit

 

[Addicted]

@Addicted I spotted this kit on Ebay and wonder if they are "real" Ford parts.
4.0 SOHC 10 piece timing kit

Would be nice to find a trustworthy source selling the entire OEM kit. Although that eBay seller shows the items will ship from New York, and his profile shows he's from China.

I wouldn't feel comfortable ordering any of this from them. Everything seems to be re-produced (copied) nowadays. It's so ridiculous. To be honest, I don't even like buying anything from eBay. I try to always find either a reputable source or the original manufacture.

I know donalds provided some links for mechanical tensioners through eBay, although I really rather stay away from ordering any parts through that marketplace. I would rather pay many times more the amount and know I have a quality part.

For instance, I saw this mechanical tensioner from Sparks Racing (just not sure if this would be the correct part)

Sparks Racing Manual Cam Chain Tensioner

It's priced high but to be honest, I don't mind paying the price if I know I'm getting a quality part.

 

[C420sailor]

The reasoning is two-fold: to allow the hydraulic to easily compensate for the initial break-in and chain stretch, and to minimize the number of variables.

If you go straight to mechanical tensioners and there is an issue, was it your timing component install? Or was it something you screwed up with the manual tensioner install? If you start with hydraulics and it runs well and quietly, then you can go to the mechanicals with a known good engine. It makes any requisite troubleshooting much easier.

Hydraulic tensioners (Ford) work fairly well for a while, but they still aren’t that great on initial start. To compensate for this, you can crank the engine in flood clear mode to develop oil pressure before letting her fire. You can use this during the initial break-in.

Or, if you’re having this much heartburn, just buy the Ford OEM hydraulic tensioners and install a preoiler or crank in flood clear as mentioned above.

 

[Addicted]

The reasoning is two-fold: to allow the hydraulic to easily compensate for the initial break-in and chain stretch,

Thanks for the reasoning. It does make sense. My thinking was that it would be easier to install the mechanical tensioner on reassembly when the area is more clear of any obstructions. Although I do see what your saying.

And crank in flood mode would work (as a pre-oiler) while I'm breaking it all in (as long as I can get the wife to also remember to do this before starting the engine). Would this be OK to perform every day for the next few hundred miles while I'm breaking it all in?


Would it be best to break it in with new hydraulic tensioners or just use the old one?

And are you familiar with the mechanical tensioner I posted in my previous message? Would that work?

Or another good known US brand?

 

[donalds]

The reasoning is two-fold: to allow the hydraulic to easily compensate for the initial break-in and chain stretch, and to minimize the number of variables.

If you go straight to mechanical tensioners and there is an issue, was it your timing component install? Or was it something you screwed up with the manual tensioner install? If you start with hydraulics and it runs well and quietly, then you can go to the mechanicals with a known good engine. It makes any requisite troubleshooting much easier.

Hydraulic tensioners (Ford) work fairly well for a while, but they still aren’t that great on initial start. To compensate for this, you can crank the engine in flood clear mode to develop oil pressure before letting her fire. You can use this during the initial break-in.

Or, if you’re having this much heartburn, just buy the Ford OEM hydraulic tensioners and install a preoiler or crank in flood clear as mentioned above.

Spot on

 

[Addicted]

Thank you donalds, C420sailor and all others for the help.


Anybody familiar with this Sparks Racing mechanical tensioner?

Sparks Racing Manual Cam Chain Tensioner

I'm not familiar with them although they seem like a reputable company. I don't know which brands would be considered best for the mechanical tensioners however I would rather steer away from ordering a cheaper unit from eBay or other online market place source.

The price is no problem. The quality of a trusted brand is more important to me.

Hope somebody will have more insight on this. Thanks again

 

[donalds]

All of us have bought and run the eBay one
We have no experience with the sparks racing unit
However the sparks racing unit is probably higher quality
If I was you I would order both the $20 unit from amazon and the sparx racing be the 1 to compare them for us

 

[Addicted]

I would order both the $20 unit from amazon and the sparx racing be the 1 to compare them for us

I wouldn't mind doing that. I like to make sure I'm ordering the correct parts. The one from sparks racing which I linked would be the correct part?

The mechanical tensioner for polaris 1000 xp is the same fit like the ford oem tensioner. Is that right?

 

[donalds]

I wouldn't mind doing that. I like to make sure I'm ordering the correct parts. The one from sparks racing which I linked would be the correct part?

The mechanical tensioner for polaris 1000 xp is the same fit like the ford oem tensioner. Is that right?

Yes its correct

 

[Addicted]

Thanks for confirming. Will pick them both up soon and post a review on any notable differences if any.

I spent a bit on other parts right now and will need to wait a few more weeks from now. Once I receive them I'll start a new thread/post as this one took a beating.

 

[410Fortune]

I’m
Late to the party here

I have told this story 50+ times on this forum and several
Members have ran with the idea (no pun)

I’m the one who bought some Polaris machines years ago and found out that right off the showroom floor my 20k utv was using the same crappy tensioner from our ford sohc engines. Polaris for whatever reason used the same hydraulic tensioner in their 999cc prostar ohc engines.
Nothing like having a brand new utv with a cold start rattle. I knew what the noise was immediately. We owned 3 of these Polaris engines a 2014 a 15 and a 2018. I still have the 2018 Polaris ranger northstar, we sold our two rzrs

It was in 2015 when the aftermarket companies started making manual tensioners for the rzr. Sparks racing tensioners were $350 back then. I installed one in our 2015 rzr and the cold start noise went away. That part remained in our machine until last year when I sold it.
It was my idea to use the rzr manual tensioners in the ford sohc engine

Now here we are 10 years later
The rzr has as big of an aftermarket as jeeps
There are now several options for manual chain tensioners
Decent stainless steel ones are like $40 or less
It is not a complex unit. Just a threaded plunger inside the housing that screws into the block. So even the cheap ones can do the job

No slack chains, engine is not out of time, the slack chain will not destroy the guides… win win

It literally takes minutes to un thread the old hydraulic tensioner and thread in the new
Except on the 97-02 sohc engines with the early upper intake, on that one you have to remove the intake to get at the drivers tensioner

This is not a complex situation and they are easy to setup. I would just install the manual tensioners from day one and live with it!
Now with that said I have only owned a sohc engine for a few weeks before we blew it up, it was bad when I got it. So I ripped it out and installed a v8 lol
I have worked on and fixed 100 of these engines, just never really owned one

Sparks racing unit is very good, they probably use a better quality stainless steel then the $40 china ones, but in reality it is just a screw and I can buy 5-10 of the cheap ones for one sparks unit. The cheapos work just fine, it is just a screw that pushes on a guide

 

[Addicted]

Thank you so much for that post. Better late than never.

So nice to hear this from a veteran who's been down this road more than more than once.

So at some point my original hydraulic tensioners lost some of it's tension thus resulting in that slack which lead to my broken guides.

Such a brilliant design.

And you are right about the removal of the tensioners being a bit more involved on the years you mentioned. That's what I face on my 99 sohc engine.

I'll be pulling out the engine and replacing all timing chain components. I felt it would be convenient to install the manual tensioner upon reassembly of the engine although it was suggested that it would be best to install the hydraulic tensioner first and then after a few hundred miles do the swap.

Installing the mechanical tensioner seems simple enough. As long as I don't put any excessive tension on the chains, how can I mess this up doing it from the get go?

What would you do given my situation? Install during reassembly or after the initial break in?

 

[410Fortune]

Once you do it a time or two removing the 99 upper plenum to get access to that tensioner is no biggie it takes about 20 minutes.
I can totally see the logic in using the hydraulic ones first
But the manual is not that difficult to setup so don’t overthink it