Just curious, would anyone here buy the new Explorers? | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Just curious, would anyone here buy the new Explorers?

sehaare

Well-Known Member
Joined
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City, State
Chicagoland, IL
Year, Model & Trim Level
98XLT 4WD SOHC,94XLT gone
When I bought my 98 new one of the reasons that I went with it instead of the grand Cherokee was that back in 98 the explorer had a truck frame and the grand Cherokee was unibody construction. So basically a truck versus a Car.

Now flash to 2018 and the current explorers have been changed to also a glorified car. After owning both a brand new 94 and then 98 I just don't see me buying another explorer. Anyone else have any thoughts.
 



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Is there something specific to a truck frame that you need? I'm not anti-truck (obviously, since I'm here), but unit body construction by itself doesn't mean it's any weaker. Some 'unibody' SUV's are little more than a truck frame welded to the body. You get some of the advantages of both that way - the pure strength of a truck frame, plus the rigidity of a unit construction. To be clear, I don't know much specific to the new Explorer. The Pilot and Ridgeline are examples of that construction though. They get a lot of flack for being unibody vehicles, but they're still very strong underneath.
 






I really don't see a truck style of frame as any advantage for a modern SUV. In fact actually rather the opposite.
It's just a very heavy way of building an SUV. The only real advantage a frame has is the versatility in a company being able to mount several different types of bodies cabins onto this one type of standardized frame.

The downsides are that a frame is much heavier and actually tends ending up to be less stiff than an integrated body.
Remember in simplified terms the frame is basically just a more or less flat arrangement of steel beams welded together.
That is nothing near to what welded 3 dimensional steel tube bodies of race cars have instead.
These rather flat frames the way trucks and very old cars have, do rarely ever provide a very good basis for a stiff support to the mounted suspension. And if they are stiff they tend to be awfully heavy.

Today these frames make sense in commercial trucks but not really in SUV's anymore. Technology has just advanced. Cars and SUV's have much more power, better handling, they need to have better fuel efficiency, be built lightweight to compensate for all the additional luxury features and so on. Just as an example, in many modern cars even windshields are glued into the body to provide extra stiffness. Modern construction and design and manufacturing have just advanced way past the traditional simple car and truck frames.
Audi builds cars with aluminum space frames for almost 25 years now. And BMW even adds more and more mass production carbon fiber components to their bodies, the electric I3 and hybrid I8 even have mass produced full carbon fiber bodies.

Sadly traditional American car and SUV makers are usually many years behind the newest technological developments and trends.


To answer the original question:
Would I buy a new Explorer?
I really like the exterior design, but even if I could afford it I probably wouldn't. If I bought a new SUV, then it would most likely be a German brand (most likely a BMW, Mercedes or VW) or a Toyota. The alternatives from those brands just tend to deliver more value and quality for the money than a new Ford Explorer does.

Would I buy one of the new Explorers used in some years though?
Hell yes!!! Definitely a very realistic possibility!!
Because used Fords tend to deliver a lot for the money when compared to the rather costly and more desired Japanese and German counterparts and those also tend to be MUCH more costly to repair and maintain.

Buying new cars or used cars is just a completely different story.
 






They seem far too quirky and hit and miss in their build quality. That’s what would stop me. I have no qualms with a unibody, especially in a street only type vehicle as the newer Explorers. They are not designed, or intended for anything more off-road than dirt, or fire roads.
 






None of the cops I know like them very much. For something that grew, it's rather small inside. Foot well area is small, the normal center console is huge.
But no I wouldn't buy one. I rather pay less & get a Hyundai or Kia if I wanted that type of car.
 






Just went through this late last year when my lady was new car shopping to replace her '04 Explorer that was over 240k miles and a Toyota Corolla commuter car that got totaled. We don't need a 3rd row seats as the kids are all grown and my '97 is the dirt running beater in the family for when 4H/L is necessary, but living in Wyoming we needed reliable and snow/ice capable transportation that isn't a killer on fuel mileage since we put 2k/mo on it.

Although a new Explorer was considered, it really didn't stand a chance for our needs as this vehicle would never tow and we just don't need the size for our purposes. She ended up with a new Subaru Crosstrek that in actuality has more ground clearance and better approach/departure capabilities, 1200lbs less weight, and gets 30+ MPG. Price wise, she got a fully tricked out car for what a base model 4WD Explorer runs, and considering she never once engaged the 4L function on the transfer case, she won't miss true 4WD capabilities. Reliability record was the leading reason she didn't go for another Ford like the Edge or Escape, she basically said she's done dealing with them and I couldn't argue with that since her '04 really was a headache.

For me, I love my little '97 Sport for its simplicity and overall durability as it's never let me down, but eventually there will come the time where I will replace it as my primary vehicle. A new Explorer will not be in the running at all, they've gone too far to the suburban setup versus all-around capable vehicle for me. Perhaps I'll hold out a couple years for the unicorn Bronco to finally manifest itself, or more likely go back to pick-ups and go after the new Ranger that's soon to drop. I'll always have a Ford 4x4 something in the stable, but an Explorer that isn't 1st/2nd gen will not be one of them.
 






I test drove one and it had a terrible smell. Back then the dealer said, oh its normal, don't worry. But now they have recalls, owner satisfaction campaigns, cracked manifold issues, and even with all the repairs some people still have issues. The 3.5L engine has an internal WP that can suddenly fail and flood your crankcase with coolant. They don't even have a low coolant sensor. Some years had serious issues with the electric PS and throttle body. The transfercases are fragile and not really serviceable, or it is too late when you do. It is built on an aging Volvo platform from the late 90s (Volvo S80). Ford D3 platform - Wikipedia. So, you are essentially buying something that was around when our trucks were new.
 






I really don't see a truck style of frame as any advantage for a modern SUV. In fact actually rather the opposite.
It's just a very heavy way of building an SUV. The only real advantage a frame has is the versatility in a company being able to mount several different types of bodies cabins onto this one type of standardized frame.
You have this backwards. The only disadvantages are extra space taken by the frame and extra weight.

The downsides are that a frame is much heavier and actually tends ending up to be less stiff than an integrated body.

They are not less stiff. If this were true then pickup trucks with higher towing and cargo capacity would be unibody.

Remember in simplified terms the frame is basically just a more or less flat arrangement of steel beams welded together.
That is nothing near to what welded 3 dimensional steel tube bodies of race cars have instead.

This is incorrect. Race cars are optimized for low weight, but with extra rollover protection added. They cannot tow or haul much of anything. And are not street legal with crumple zones when built for track with tubing. Additionally unibody street cars/SUVs don't have a 3 dimensional steel tubing, cage style frame.

These rather flat frames the way trucks and very old cars have, do rarely ever provide a very good basis for a stiff support to the mounted suspension. And if they are stiff they tend to be awfully heavy.
You are right about extra weight, but they provide a superior basis for stuff support. Ever look inside a unibody engine bay? Most with decent engine power, can't even keep the struts from flexing without a support beam going across the engine bay. Most are very susceptible to road hazard damage, and again, if this were stronger it would be used on pickup and other larger trucks.

Sadly traditional American car and SUV makers are usually many years behind the newest technological developments and trends.

Largely because newer isn't necessarily better if you care less about fuel economy than longevity, low repair costs, and lower purchase price.

I haven't even mentioned the problems that arise once they start rusting. Many unibody SUVs need special strut tower reinforcements added once they rust out. If there is not a kit then you are left DIY fabricating one. It seems unlikely that vehicles sold new today will have as long a viable lifespan as those sold 20 years ago.

There are advantages to more modern designs, but they are primarily greatly improved handling and weight:size ratio reduction.
 






You have this backwards. The only disadvantages are extra space taken by the frame and extra weight.



They are not less stiff. If this were true then pickup trucks with higher towing and cargo capacity would be unibody.



This is incorrect. Race cars are optimized for low weight, but with extra rollover protection added. They cannot tow or haul much of anything. And are not street legal with crumple zones when built for track with tubing. Additionally unibody street cars/SUVs don't have a 3 dimensional steel tubing, cage style frame.

You are right about extra weight, but they provide a superior basis for stuff support. Ever look inside a unibody engine bay? Most with decent engine power, can't even keep the struts from flexing without a support beam going across the engine bay. Most are very susceptible to road hazard damage, and again, if this were stronger it would be used on pickup and other larger trucks.



Largely because newer isn't necessarily better if you care less about fuel economy than longevity, low repair costs, and lower purchase price.

I haven't even mentioned the problems that arise once they start rusting. Many unibody SUVs need special strut tower reinforcements added once they rust out. If there is not a kit then you are left DIY fabricating one. It seems unlikely that vehicles sold new today will have as long a viable lifespan as those sold 20 years ago.

There are advantages to more modern designs, but they are primarily greatly improved handling and weight:size ratio reduction.

I should have phrased it a little different and should have been more precise in my arguments.

If you look at the weight and the material that is needed to achieve the necessary or desired stiffness of a structure, then a simple frame with a body mounted onto it is actually a very poor design approach and leads to a very heavy structure.

But because trucks are built so heavy, their frames then do of course end up being stiffer in the end than a lightweight modern design often does.
But the structure of these fat frames inherently does not provide much torsional stiffness around the central axis which plays a major role when it comes to handing in turns or off road. And to compensate for this they need an awful lot of steel and end up being awfully heavy.
Modern designs achieve much better torsional strength with much less material!
Especially the example of modern race cars with their tube frames shows that. These steel cages of sports and race cars are actually not so much only designed with rollover protection in mind but much rather with enhancing the torsional stiffness to improve the handling in high speed turns. Twisting of the body directly and negatively affects the suspension and the positioning of the wheels and tires on the road.
For trucks of course that isn't quite as big a priority and issue as it is for modern sports cars, but still it does have an effect on off road performance and a trucks handling in turns. But with bigger engines and demand for better handling of modern trucks and especially SUV's this naturally does start playing an increasing role just like it did with sedans and sports cars many years ago.

For a modern SUV something like a "beefed up" heavier designed version of the Aluminum space frames could for example be FAR superior to the classic separate frame and body. But it would end up costing the car makers more and reduce their margins for profits unless they can raise the price.

Now for towing heavy trailers and maximum towing capacities of course a relatively heavy weight of the vehicle actually even provides a certain natural advantage. So that also plays into the trucks design of course. The higher the towing capacity needs to be the less the need for reducing the vehicles overall weight.

Old cars also tend to be built much heavier and sturdier than most new designs, but that is not due to them having a unibody. That is much rather due to modern cars being designed with quite different priorities, primarily meaning reduced weight, improved fuel consumption and much better safer crash behavior in case of a collision. And a modern unibody design is in many ways superior to the classic frame with a separate body mounted onto it.
On our 2nd gen. Explorers for example the whole body is practically not much else than basically just a classic passenger cabin and doesn't provide much if any additional stiffness to the frame and suspension mounts. On integrated unibody designs all that metal in the body is part of the entire structural design and even the windows are glued in and come under stress providing part of the overall stability and stiffness of the vehicle.
And I'm very confident that the new unibody design of the new Explorer for example provides a considerably stiffer and lighter platform than our old 2nd generation ones with the separate frame and body have. (Same for the BMW X5 from 99 and later, by the way, the first SUV with unibody design on the market.)

But yes I agree new cars and SUV's most certainly won't have as long a viable life span as our 2nd Gen. Explorers, but in many countries they also don't really "need" to. Many other countries other than the US, especially those all over Europe have strict regular technical inspections and emissions tests. They have very high taxes on owning and operating old and polluting vehicles, much higher prices for gasoline etc. So in many places driving an old vehicle is not as cheap as it is in the US.
And with time the US auto market will most certainly also move towards that direction as well.

And with the increasing number of hybrid or even all electric cars as well as the considerably high costs and short lifespans of their batteries, the aspect of a vehicles viable lifespan is most likely going to get dramatically worse.
 






It depends on what you need of it. Having a '14 (current generation) in addition to my '98, they share nothing in common but the make and model name.

The '98 has significantly better ergonomics, vs '14 more features, none of which I use much on the '14, except that when the backup warning beeps I find it annoying but I then look at the backup cam screen anyway. I haven't turned the warning feature off just in case some day someone or something is back behind me that I don't see, but so far for decades I drove without this feature and never backed over anything.

The handling improvement of the '14 over the '98 is a night and day difference. The '98 is the last of the old school explorers without independent rear suspension. This is arguably better for a *cheap* off road conversion, but significantly detracts from ride quality and handling. Around here the roads are all hills and curves, if yours are all straight and flat, it may not matter as much. The same is true for the entire suspension, it is not easy to DIY mod the 5th gen explorer suspension beyond adding firmer springs and struts, maybe lowering it with expensive custom struts. I would not try to lift it at all.

Many parts on the '14 are more expensive to repair or replace, with many things over twice as expensive from steering rack to tires to water pump to battery cables to wiper blades, dash gauges & info-whatever-sync-center console, power lift gate struts, and a lot more air bags to go off in a collision. Air bags are great to save lives, but not so great if a small accident sets off $3k worth of bags and you only needed one if any.

The '14 has significantly worse visibility, particularly for shorter drivers. It also has a surprisingly small amount of front passenger space considering the total vehicle size and especially width. You really feel cocooned in and have to lift your feet a bit just to get out of the vehicle because the rocker panels are significantly higher than the floor pan. It has plenty of head and leg room but otherwise, I've been in a lot of economy cars that feel as roomy in front.

The '14 is a big lifted AWD station wagon with 3rd row seating. It does that duty fine and I'd rather have it over a sedan, but nothing on it has needed repaired yet. I will feel a lot more negatively about it once I have to work in the cramped engine bay and pay a lot more for parts.

If Ford had already released the upcoming Bronco, I probably would have gone with that instead, except that I get the feeling that it will be in short supply and priced accordingly for a while after introduction, and that's extra money spent on a feature I wouldn't use for years as I don't take new(ish) vehicles off road. So far I have seldom even driven the '14 in snow because they salt the roads around here. That's what the '98 is for, among other things. I had to try the '14 in snow though and it does great, within the limitations of the stock street tires, but it seldom snows here more than 4" at a time.
 






No. I bought an SUV when I bought my 1996 Explorer (used!).

I don't have a need/use for a minivan like the new Explorer. I'm not a soccer mom, for goodness sakes! :)
 






Considering I use my 2000 like a truck, it tows and works HARD in life, I'm going to go with no on this one. For a just DD yes but I need more than that from a vehicle, it needs to tow nice trailers and have lots of room and be cheap to drive and fix.
 






I looked online at common problems for the new Explorer out of curiosity and in case I wanted to buy a used one down the road. One of the first things I saw was that the 3.5l had an internal water pump and if you were "lucky enough" to catch it before it ruined the engine, it's a 22 hr job. That was enough info for me to stay away from them
 






For reasons I do not completely understand, Ford quit making the 302,351, 289, … OHV engines. . Chevy still makes them, go figure. Internal combustion engines have been around since the early 1900s and the Ford 302, 351, 289 designs is one of the most reliable I am aware of for a gasoline burning internal combustion engines. Ergo, OP... Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, take you pick, me, I'll stick with the 5.0/302 OHV for now. The new Explorers are no longer OHV (ended in 2001...). I throw post Ford 2001 OHC engines in the pot with the rest of the OHC engines. comparing reliability with HP. Please show me information/sources proving me wrong. So, OP, if you are buying a vehicle for the engine, the 302 (2nd generation Explorer) is my pick for now.
 






For reasons I do not completely understand, Ford quit making the 302,351, 289, … OHV engines. . Chevy still makes them, go figure. Internal combustion engines have been around since the early 1900s and the Ford 302, 351, 289 designs is one of the most reliable I am aware of for a gasoline burning internal combustion engines. Ergo, OP... Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, take you pick, me, I'll stick with the 5.0/302 OHV for now. The new Explorers are no longer OHV (ended in 2001...). I throw post Ford 2001 OHC engines in the pot with the rest of the OHC engines. comparing reliability with HP. Please show me information/sources proving me wrong. So, OP, if you are buying a vehicle for the engine, the 302 (2nd generation Explorer) is my pick for now.
Seems to be hit and miss. Take their v8 2v and 4v engines, they are almost as reliable as a 302 minus some occasional manufacturing issues.
Then you have the 3v and the 4.0L SOHC, nothing has to be said about those, :lol:.
 






I looked online at common problems for the new Explorer out of curiosity and in case I wanted to buy a used one down the road. One of the first things I saw was that the 3.5l had an internal water pump and if you were "lucky enough" to catch it before it ruined the engine, it's a 22 hr job. That was enough info for me to stay away from them
I took my car in for inspection and some guy was fighting with the dealer about it. I think they quoted him 8k. Crazy. No warning, just driving on the highway and it overheated and locked up. Oil was full of coolant too.
 






^ Sure but if you go to a dealership and let them talk you into a NEW engine, plus dealership labor rate and hours, you're asking for that. The 3.5L is readily available on ebay/etc with low (< 75K) miles for $1K delivered, or less if you pick it up locally. A dealership might bill for 22 hrs, but there are mechanics who claim they do a water pump in closer to a dozen hours and not many more for the whole swap.

I'd love if I could get a 5.0L OHV in a newer vehicle but on the other hand, consider the extra cost of fuel over 15+ years, might just pay for a repair or engine swap eventually. On the other hand if you don't drive enough miles in that time to pay for an engine swap with the fuel savings, you may not need an engine swap or pull for parts replacement until the vehicle has very little value. That's where I am with the 4.0L SOHC in my '98, still running fine, and probably where I'll be with the 2014 3.5L some day (currently has under 15K mi. on it).

Some one guy who kept driving his vehicle after it overheated, then payed an inflated quote from a dealership, is just an example of the rare individual who made multiple bad choices, out of millions of Explorer owners on the road. If you look at the % of bad experiences, any vehicle is going to have some horror stories.

You can go for the 2.(n)L Ecoboost instead, but then you may need to fork out hundreds of dollars every 50K mi. to get the valve carbon deposits blasted off, or watch the performance and fuel economy tank. That too adds up over the entire lifespan of the vehicle. All manufacturers are now using more complex and expensive to maintain engines. Thanks EPA!
 






As I am reading this I can't help to think

Chain a new explorer 4x4 and a 2nd gen 4x4 together and see which one is better
 






As I am reading this I can't help to think

Chain a new explorer 4x4 and a 2nd gen 4x4 together and see which one is better
I’ve done this. A ton of it comes down to driver skill.
 



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For reasons I do not completely understand, Ford quit making the 302,351, 289, … OHV engines. . Chevy still makes them, go figure. Internal combustion engines have been around since the early 1900s and the Ford 302, 351, 289 designs is one of the most reliable I am aware of for a gasoline burning internal combustion engines. Ergo, OP... Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, take you pick, me, I'll stick with the 5.0/302 OHV for now. The new Explorers are no longer OHV (ended in 2001...). I throw post Ford 2001 OHC engines in the pot with the rest of the OHC engines. comparing reliability with HP. Please show me information/sources proving me wrong. So, OP, if you are buying a vehicle for the engine, the 302 (2nd generation Explorer) is my pick for now.
While I love the 5.0, it is an antiquated design. It’s lackluster on power and torque compared to more modern designs. There’s nothing wrong with OHC motors. Every other manufacturer uses them without issue. They are more efficient, make more power, and don’t have to be inherently unreliable.
 






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