Low battery causing shutoff at stop lights?

[aasu]

My daughter has a 2014 ford explorer v6 (not sure of model level). I didn't get a chance to look at the explorer so this is all second hand info.
She was complaining of the explorer engine shutting off at stoplights and then the low oil pressure light coming on. Her boyfriend checked the battery had 12V at rest, did a little research and said it could be the fuel pump. Due to fuel pump being in the gas tank he didn't want to do that repair. Forward about a week and she takes it to the dealership.
They run diag on battery and oil pressure and find the CCA at 350 and an oil leak at the timing cover. Their explanation for shut off doesn't make sense to me but I'm not familiar with the newer electronics.
1. They said the low CCA was a sign of a bad battery, which the battery management system saw and shutoff the explorer to protect the system. Remember this was happening at red lights after the car had been running.
-- yes, Low CCA is a weak battery which should impact starting but does the management system actually shutdown a running car just because the battery is weak?
-- Shouldn't there be a bad battery light or warning somewhere?
-- Is there any way to turn that shutdown feature off? She's could be in the middle of 5 lanes of traffic when shutoff occurs. Now I know Ford does this for a reason but I'm more concerned about her safety than her computer having a hissy-fit.
2. Wouldn't it be normal for the oil light to come on when the engine shuts down?
3. Would any of this be reported on a code check on the explorer via the OBD port?

Fortunately she has a warranty that covers all but about $600 worth of this work.

Thank you

 

[imp]

My daughter has a 2014 ford explorer v6 (not sure of model level). I didn't get a chance to look at the explorer so this is all second hand info.
She was complaining of the explorer engine shutting off at stoplights and then the low oil pressure light coming on. Her boyfriend checked the battery had 12V at rest, did a little research and said it could be the fuel pump. Due to fuel pump being in the gas tank he didn't want to do that repair. Forward about a week and she takes it to the dealership.
They run diag on battery and oil pressure and find the CCA at 350 and an oil leak at the timing cover. Their explanation for shut off doesn't make sense to me but I'm not familiar with the newer electronics.
1. They said the low CCA was a sign of a bad battery, which the battery management system saw and shutoff the explorer to protect the system. Remember this was happening at red lights after the car had been running.
-- yes, Low CCA is a weak battery which should impact starting but does the management system actually shutdown a running car just because the battery is weak?
-- Shouldn't there be a bad battery light or warning somewhere?
-- Is there any way to turn that shutdown feature off? She's could be in the middle of 5 lanes of traffic when shutoff occurs. Now I know Ford does this for a reason but I'm more concerned about her safety than her computer having a hissy-fit.
2. Wouldn't it be normal for the oil light to come on when the engine shuts down?
3. Would any of this be reported on a code check on the explorer via the OBD port?

Fortunately she has a warranty that covers all but about $600 worth of this work.

Thank you

The only way a "bad battery" can cause a shutdown is if it is internally short-circuited (rare, but possible) causing the alternator to be overloaded. This would not be a repeat thing, nor intermittent, but likely would happen once, after which the battery could not start the engine, nor could it be recharged.

Yes, it makes sense if the engine stops, oil pressure drops to zero, triggering the warning light. Yes, there likely is a digital code calling out the existence of a low voltage problem.

 

[Mbrooks420]

My daughter has a 2014 ford explorer v6 (not sure of model level). I didn't get a chance to look at the explorer so this is all second hand info.
She was complaining of the explorer engine shutting off at stoplights and then the low oil pressure light coming on. Her boyfriend checked the battery had 12V at rest, did a little research and said it could be the fuel pump. Due to fuel pump being in the gas tank he didn't want to do that repair. Forward about a week and she takes it to the dealership.
They run diag on battery and oil pressure and find the CCA at 350 and an oil leak at the timing cover. Their explanation for shut off doesn't make sense to me but I'm not familiar with the newer electronics.
1. They said the low CCA was a sign of a bad battery, which the battery management system saw and shutoff the explorer to protect the system. Remember this was happening at red lights after the car had been running.
-- yes, Low CCA is a weak battery which should impact starting but does the management system actually shutdown a running car just because the battery is weak?
-- Shouldn't there be a bad battery light or warning somewhere?
-- Is there any way to turn that shutdown feature off? She's could be in the middle of 5 lanes of traffic when shutoff occurs. Now I know Ford does this for a reason but I'm more concerned about her safety than her computer having a hissy-fit.
2. Wouldn't it be normal for the oil light to come on when the engine shuts down?
3. Would any of this be reported on a code check on the explorer via the OBD port?

Fortunately she has a warranty that covers all but about $600 worth of this work.

Thank you

All but $600 of what work? They didn’t really do anything.

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum aasu.
I don't believe this has been discussed before. While the CCA may be low, I don't think it should cause the engine to shut OFF when it is running since the alternator should be supplying electrical power to the battery and electrical systems. As imp mentioned the oil pressure light would come ON if the engine stalled. If the Battery Management System sees a low power situation it will begin to shut down certain items as per the Manual;
Battery management system
The battery management system (BMS) monitors battery conditions and
takes actions to extend battery life. If excessive battery drain is
detected, the system may temporarily disable certain electrical features
to protect the battery. Those electrical accessories affected include rear
defrost, heated/cooled seats, climate control fan, heated steering wheel,
audio and navigation system. A message may be displayed on the
instrument cluster or center stack display to alert the driver that battery
protection actions are active.
Did they fix the timing cover oil leak? Did they replace the battery?

Peter

 

[aasu]

The only way a "bad battery" can cause a shutdown is if it is internally short-circuited (rare, but possible) causing the alternator to be overloaded. This would not be a repeat thing, nor intermittent, but likely would happen once, after which the battery could not start the engine, nor could it be recharged.

Yes, it makes sense if the engine stops, oil pressure drops to zero, triggering the warning light. Yes, there likely is a digital code calling out the existence of a low voltage problem.

The only way a "bad battery" can cause a shutdown is if it is internally short-circuited (rare, but possible) causing the alternator to be overloaded. This would not be a repeat thing, nor intermittent, but likely would happen once, after which the battery could not start the engine, nor could it be recharged.

Yes, it makes sense if the engine stops, oil pressure drops to zero, triggering the warning light. Yes, there likely is a digital code calling out the existence of a low voltage problem.

The only way a "bad battery" can cause a shutdown is if it is internally short-circuited (rare, but possible) causing the alternator to be overloaded. This would not be a repeat thing, nor intermittent, but likely would happen once, after which the battery could not start the engine, nor could it be recharged.

Yes, it makes sense if the engine stops, oil pressure drops to zero, triggering the warning light. Yes, there likely is a digital code calling out the existence of a low voltage problem

The only way a "bad battery" can cause a shutdown is if it is internally short-circuited (rare, but possible) causing the alternator to be overloaded. This would not be a repeat thing, nor intermittent, but likely would happen once, after which the battery could not start the engine, nor could it be recharged.

Yes, it makes sense if the engine stops, oil pressure drops to zero, triggering the warning light. Yes, there likely is a digital code calling out the existence of a low voltage problem.

The only way a "bad battery" can cause a shutdown is if it is internally short-circuited (rare, but possible) causing the alternator to be overloaded. This would not be a repeat thing, nor intermittent, but likely would happen once, after which the battery could not start the engine, nor could it be recharged.

Yes, it makes sense if the engine stops, oil pressure drops to zero, triggering the warning light. Yes, there likely is a digital code calling out the existence of a low voltage problem.

Thanks imp, didn't consider the possibility of a shorted battery.
I'm hoping the Ford dealership would have diags that would show a shorted battery at testing. I'm really leaning toward them blowing smoke on the battery as the shutdown explanation.

 

[aasu]

All but $600 of what work? They didn’t really do anything.

I agree, From the dealership cost estimate:
150 diags
150 battery
100 installation of battery
150 diags for oil.

She has some type of platinum warranty bought from the dealership when she purchased her car used. I'm thinking it's probably asurian who handles that warranty. That means the diags for oil are covered but she'll need to pay the deductible. Probably bringing the cost down to $500.

 

[aasu]

Welcome to the Forum aasu.
I don't believe this has been discussed before. While the CCA may be low, I don't think it should cause the engine to shut OFF when it is running since the alternator should be supplying electrical power to the battery and electrical systems. As imp mentioned the oil pressure light would come ON if the engine stalled. If the Battery Management System sees a low power situation it will begin to shut down certain items as per the Manual;
Battery management system
The battery management system (BMS) monitors battery conditions and
takes actions to extend battery life. If excessive battery drain is
detected, the system may temporarily disable certain electrical features
to protect the battery. Those electrical accessories affected include rear
defrost, heated/cooled seats, climate control fan, heated steering wheel,
audio and navigation system. A message may be displayed on the
instrument cluster or center stack display to alert the driver that battery
protection actions are active.
Did they fix the timing cover oil leak? Did they replace the battery?

Peter

They are in the process of fixing the issues. I'm older school shadetree mechanic and know my toyota and pontiac will run with a dead battery since the alternator is providing power. It is possible (after battery replacement ) that the alternator is failing, but I'd expect that to show on diags/code pull. Not being a Ford owner I was thinking maybe this was a brand specific protection process. That's why I was reaching out to the forum for some assistance understand how Ford handles this case.

The timing cover should get fixed under the warranty she bought with the explorer.

They were putting the claim in Saturday so she's expecting some info today/tomorrow.

 

[03WIExplorerLtd]

I agree, From the dealership cost estimate:
150 diags
150 battery
100 installation of battery
150 diags for oil.

She has some type of platinum warranty bought from the dealership when she purchased her car used. I'm thinking it's probably asurian who handles that warranty. That means the diags for oil are covered but she'll need to pay the deductible. Probably bringing the cost down to $500.

100 install for battery? 2 diags? Holy smokes thats terrible. And warranty doesn't cover?
3rd party warranty right?

 

[peterk9]

They are in the process of fixing the issues. I'm older school shadetree mechanic and know my toyota and pontiac will run with a dead battery since the alternator is providing power. It is possible (after battery replacement ) that the alternator is failing, but I'd expect that to show on diags/code pull. Not being a Ford owner I was thinking maybe this was a brand specific protection process. That's why I was reaching out to the forum for some assistance understand how Ford handles this case.

The timing cover should get fixed under the warranty she bought with the explorer.

They were putting the claim in Saturday so she's expecting some info today/tomorrow.

After the battery was replaced did you allow the vehicle to sit undisturbed for at least 8 hours. Also the BMS should have been reset to erase the memory of the old battery.
After battery replacement, or in some cases after charging the battery with an external charger, the BMS requires eight hours of vehicle sleep time (key off with doors closed) to relearn the new battery state of charge. Prior to relearning state of charge, the BMS may disable electrical features (to protect the battery) earlier than normal.
Also, see post #5 of this thread; Battery Replacement / Upgrade - Battery Re-Learn
I agree that some of those charges are ridiculous. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to change the battery.

Peter

 

[aasu]

100 install for battery? 2 diags? Holy smokes thats terrible. And warranty doesn't cover?
3rd party warranty right?

$100 is roughly what the dealership charges for 30 minutes.
2 diags, yes. One for stalling at stop light other because she said the oil light came on.
She bought the explorer used and the dealership sold her this platinum warranty. I'm assuming it similar to the assurian warranties you by with cell phones. It may even be the same company.

I rounded those numbers a little because one is 13 dollars under another procedure is 21 dollars over. The total comes out the same.

 

[aasu]

After the battery was replaced did you allow the vehicle to sit undisturbed for at least 8 hours. Also the BMS should have been reset to erase the memory of the old battery.
After battery replacement, or in some cases after charging the battery with an external charger, the BMS requires eight hours of vehicle sleep time (key off with doors closed) to relearn the new battery state of charge. Prior to relearning state of charge, the BMS may disable electrical features (to protect the battery) earlier than normal.
Also, see post #5 of this thread; Battery Replacement / Upgrade - Battery Re-Learn
I agree that some of those charges are ridiculous. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to change the battery.

Peter

They are in process of working on it, so I'm don't have answer for the battery reset.

Unfortunately she doesn't have the time to pick it up, take to advance auto and have them replace battery, then return to dealership. She's working 2 jobs and doesn't get the free time, it's usually one job to the next.

Just don't breakdown in Savannah, GA unless you got a good credit limit.

 

[peterk9]

3rd party warranties are usually not recommended here. If you decide to get another warranty for the Explorer, check out this thread; Ford ESP at dealer cost to forum members
Good luck.

Peter

 

[03WIExplorerLtd]

They are in process of working on it, so I'm don't have answer for the battery reset.

Unfortunately she doesn't have the time to pick it up, take to advance auto and have them replace battery, then return to dealership. She's working 2 jobs and doesn't get the free time, it's usually one job to the next.

Just don't breakdown in Savannah, GA unless you got a good credit limit.

I'd check the fine print on diag fees in the contract. To Peter's point 3rd warranty have a bad rap. Dealer should have do a battery inspection and look over for free at least to start. 200 an hour is nuts. Never would pay that.

 

[Dave K 58]

There have been other threads about weird stuff happening that was fixed by replacing the battery. In my case, I started having intermittent traction control system issues when the car was about 5 years old. I installed a new battery and it hasn't happened since - going on three years. Coincidence? Maybe.

But I too am really skeptical that the battery was causing complete engine shutdown.

And last time I checked, dealer shop rates in my area were about $125 / hour.

Statistical analyses of 3rd party warranties show that the warranty companies enjoy about an 88% margin. The odds are not in the buyer's favor!

 

[Brun03Avi]

Has the alternator been checked? What’s the battery voltage at idle? Alternator belt tight?

 

[peterk9]

Has the alternator been checked? What’s the battery voltage at idle? Alternator belt tight?

Welcome to the Forum.

Peter

 

[RicsRides]

My daughter has a 2014 ford explorer v6 (not sure of model level). I didn't get a chance to look at the explorer so this is all second hand info.
She was complaining of the explorer engine shutting off at stoplights and then the low oil pressure light coming on. Her boyfriend checked the battery had 12V at rest, did a little research and said it could be the fuel pump. Due to fuel pump being in the gas tank he didn't want to do that repair. Forward about a week and she takes it to the dealership.
They run diag on battery and oil pressure and find the CCA at 350 and an oil leak at the timing cover. Their explanation for shut off doesn't make sense to me but I'm not familiar with the newer electronics.
1. They said the low CCA was a sign of a bad battery, which the battery management system saw and shutoff the explorer to protect the system. Remember this was happening at red lights after the car had been running.
-- yes, Low CCA is a weak battery which should impact starting but does the management system actually shutdown a running car just because the battery is weak?
-- Shouldn't there be a bad battery light or warning somewhere?
-- Is there any way to turn that shutdown feature off? She's could be in the middle of 5 lanes of traffic when shutoff occurs. Now I know Ford does this for a reason but I'm more concerned about her safety than her computer having a hissy-fit.
2. Wouldn't it be normal for the oil light to come on when the engine shuts down?
3. Would any of this be reported on a code check on the explorer via the OBD port?

Fortunately she has a warranty that covers all but about $600 worth of this work.

Thank you

If

There have been other threads about weird stuff happening that was fixed by replacing the battery. In my case, I started having intermittent traction control system issues when the car was about 5 years old. I installed a new battery and it hasn't happened since - going on three years. Coincidence? Maybe.

But I too am really skeptical that the battery was causing complete engine shutdown.

And last time I checked, dealer shop rates in my area were about $125 / hour.

Statistical analyses of 3rd party warranties show that the warranty companies enjoy about an 88% margin. The odds are not in the buyer's favor!

When the ignition is on and the vehicle isn't running the oil light will come on on ANY vehicle, that's not a problem. A battery replacement and an alternator test would be the first things I'd do. Good Luck.

 

[peterk9]

^^Welcome to the Forum.

Peter

 

[CajunHO]

How about bad connection at positive battery terminal? The design of that connector with a fuse built in it and other wires leaving it isn't good. It corroded badly and ruined the battery and cable assembly. It was causing the instrument panel to freak out. Eventually it wouldn't start. But never shutdown at a stop. 86000 miles and third battery from Ford under warranty.

 

[laker82]

My daughter has a 2014 ford explorer v6 (not sure of model level). I didn't get a chance to look at the explorer so this is all second hand info.
She was complaining of the explorer engine shutting off at stoplights and then the low oil pressure light coming on. Her boyfriend checked the battery had 12V at rest, did a little research and said it could be the fuel pump. Due to fuel pump being in the gas tank he didn't want to do that repair. Forward about a week and she takes it to the dealership.
They run diag on battery and oil pressure and find the CCA at 350 and an oil leak at the timing cover. Their explanation for shut off doesn't make sense to me but I'm not familiar with the newer electronics.
1. They said the low CCA was a sign of a bad battery, which the battery management system saw and shutoff the explorer to protect the system. Remember this was happening at red lights after the car had been running.
-- yes, Low CCA is a weak battery which should impact starting but does the management system actually shutdown a running car just because the battery is weak?
-- Shouldn't there be a bad battery light or warning somewhere?
-- Is there any way to turn that shutdown feature off? She's could be in the middle of 5 lanes of traffic when shutoff occurs. Now I know Ford does this for a reason but I'm more concerned about her safety than her computer having a hissy-fit.
2. Wouldn't it be normal for the oil light to come on when the engine shuts down?
3. Would any of this be reported on a code check on the explorer via the OBD port?

Fortunately she has a warranty that covers all but about $600 worth of this work.

Thank you

I'm not sure if there is a difference in the 2nd hand translation between an engine "shutting off" and a simple stall. Idle too low for a alternator dragging down the idle versus a computer shut down. Anyway I would also look at the pick up coil and the front end oil leak. Is there oil in the pigtail making a poor connection? Assuming that is still the location on a 2014.