More of the same... well slightly different - O/D light Falshing - Please Help!

[DidiDavis]

I just posted this on another thread but got no response. I hope that you can help me. I'm having problems with 2002 Explorer 4x4 automatic, transmission 5R55W. I'm not familiar with explorers, therefore some of the symptoms that I indicate here may be normal operation. I used an OBD2 reader and I have no codes stored.

Problems:

1- The O/D light is flashing very rapidly. It starts flashing some 5 to 10 seconds after starting the car, even without shifting out of P. It shifts fine through all the gears, including overdrive. I get around 2200 rpms at 70 mph. If I hit the O/D button, the car down shifts and rpms get at around 3000. The previous owner told me that he took the car to mechanic and the problem is the Overdrive Sensor. Is there such a sensor in this car? I've searched through the forum and found no reference to it.

Symptoms:
1-There's a little bit of jerk when shifting the gears, which I think will go away with a transmission fluid change.

2- Sometimes it seems that the shift is not as fast as it should be. There's kind of a delay when up shifting and especially down shifting. When I floor the gas pedal, it takes some 2-3 seconds to down shift.

3- There's a delay when shifting from R to D. It doesn't engage right away, it takes some 2-3 seconds to engage.

What do you guys think the problem is? Based on what I read I'd say I need a new solenoid module.... is that right?

Thanks

 

[DidiDavis]

So many views and no response! Come on guys, I just need some input here!

Thanks

 

[imp]

........ I used an OBD2 reader and I have no codes stored. Wrong! (proly). Aftermarket code readers will not read stored transmission codes. Flashing "O/D OFF" light is used expressly to warn of codes present.
Problems:
1- The O/D light is flashing very rapidly. It starts flashing some 5 to 10 seconds after starting the car, even without shifting out of P. It shifts fine through all the gears, including overdrive. I get around 2200 rpms at 70 mph. If I hit the O/D button, the car down shifts and rpms get at around 3000. The previous owner told me that he took the car to mechanic and the problem is the Overdrive Sensor. Is there such a sensor in this car? I've searched through the forum and found no reference to it. There are 3 SPEED SENSORS, mounted atop the transmission case, their purpose being to compare speeds of input, intermediate, and output shafts relative to each other. That way, slipping, or broken/failed parts may be revealed to the computer, which displays a code appropriate to those speed indications which are not within expected range. There is NO Overdrive Sensor, as such. Your observed RPMs seem acceptable and would rule out failure of the Torque Converter Clutch to engage

Symptoms:
1-There's a little bit of jerk when shifting the gears, which I think will go away with a transmission fluid change.

2- Sometimes it seems that the shift is not as fast as it should be. There's kind of a delay when up shifting and especially down shifting. When I floor the gas pedal, it takes some 2-3 seconds to down shift.

3- There's a delay when shifting from R to D. It doesn't engage right away, it takes some 2-3 seconds to engage.

What do you guys think the problem is? Based on what I read I'd say I need a new solenoid module.... is that right? My impression here is that, yes, you have a partially-sticking/occasionally intermittent solenoid, probably one of the Pressure Control Solenoids (there are 3). Individual solenoids in this trans. are not replaceable, all 8 are mounted permanently on a module, as you mention, easily replaced after removing the oil pan. Before going to this expense, however, unless one is CERTAIN of the failure cause, one is not CERTAIN solenoid replacement will correct the problem. Get the code(s) checked (Ford can do it, transmission shops can do it, specialized code-reader needed). They will not do it for free, nor will Auto-Zone's OBD-II readers work (to my knowledge, SOME may have the correct type). Hope this helps, more questions, please ask! imp

Thanks

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[DidiDavis]

Imp, thank you for replying.

I took the car to a transmission shop today. I've been told that there are no codes stored. They said that probably a valve in the valve body is sticking, causing the O/D light to flash and hard shifts. They want to take it apart for inspection and cleaning. If the cleaning fix the problem, they will charge me 200 bucks. However, they expect that something will need to be repaired, and the cost could be 300 to 400 dollars, but it could go up to 1000 dollars depending on what is wrong.

The car shifts through all gears, including overdrive, therefore they told that they don't expect to see any major problems.

From what I understood I must have a code stored, right? Maybe the shop is just hiding it from me, for some reason. What kind of special scanner I need for this job? Is it possible to buy one? Do you have a link?

Thank you

 

[imp]

Imp, thank you for replying.

I took the car to a transmission shop today. I've been told that there are no codes stored. They said that probably a valve in the valve body is sticking, causing the O/D light to flash and hard shifts. They want to take it apart for inspection and cleaning. If the cleaning fix the problem, they will charge me 200 bucks. However, they expect that something will need to be repaired, and the cost could be 300 to 400 dollars, but it could go up to 1000 dollars depending on what is wrong.

The car shifts through all gears, including overdrive, therefore they told that they don't expect to see any major problems.

From what I understood I must have a code stored, right? Maybe the shop is just hiding it from me, for some reason. What kind of special scanner I need for this job? Is it possible to buy one? Do you have a link?

Thank you

Didi, yes, a sticking valve MIGHT happen now and then, causing an inconsistent problem, but generally, a stuck valve stays thus and causes a fault which remains. If their high quote is $1,000 max., I would be suspicious that they probably expect to fix it easily, give it a kiss, and put it back in operation.

So far as I know, a flashing O/D light MUST have a trouble code causing it to happen- no code, no flash. Likely your shop does not have the specialized code reader needed, or they do not want to reveal the simplicity of the repair involved, based on the code they are seeing. If I were at home, I could look up for you the scanner used, but I am not, sorry. Ford calls it a "STAR" scanner, I believe (that's their name), others will be named differently. A Ford dealer will do the scan for you, but I have no idea of the cost; it may be negotiable. One must be "cagey" in these dealings; shops will not allow the customer access, but some MIGHT allow you to view the scanner readout; this would be ideal. Knowing the code(s) present would allow you to look up the corresponding cause(s), probably right on this forum. Such scanners CAN be purchased, of course, but since demand is low, cost is likely pretty high. Try calling some local big-name parts stores, asking for a scanner capable of reading Ford transmission codes; O'Reilly, Checker Auto, Pep Boys, Auto-Zone, etc. Sorry, I don't have a link, but you might try a search "buy Ford transmission code scanner", or try E-bay. I bought my solenoid module there, at something like $160, brand new Bosch part. (It fixed the O/D flash, but I had no O/D gear , just first gear through 4th.). Your problem is different.

The codes involved here all begin with the letter "P", for example, "P0778"- "Pressure Control Solenoid "B", mechanical failure". I am leaning towards this sort of failure in your case, but could be dead wrong, too. I wish I could be more concrete in analysis for you, but it's just not feasible, just guesswork, sorry.

A final thought: If you care to gamble, invest in a transmission drain & refill procedure at one of the lesser-technical repair places; fresh fluid often will "free-up" a sticky valve body, and often it is the recourse suggested by some shops just to keep a customer like yourself from leaving, if they feel a reluctance on the customer's part to authorize a full repair up front. My guess would be perhaps $50 labor to drain & refill, plus cost of fluid. Make damn certain, if you do this to see the fluid designation type used, or buy and supply it yourself. If they use bulk (big tank of fluid), ANYTHING might be in there. Your Owners Manual tells you exactly which fluid is needed, probably Mercon-V, not just Mercon, or "Automatic Transmission Fluid".

I am interested in hearing how you do. imp

 

[DidiDavis]

Imp, sorry about taking so long to reply. I've been busy lately.

I agree with you, it's probably an easy fix, that's why the shop did not want to tell the code. They diagnosed it for free, so I can understand. I tried to have the transmission codes read, but no one wants to read it without charging me a leg. Bad economy, tough times. I'll try again tomorrow.

Anyways, I drove the car this weekend and noticed that the shift from 2nd to 3rd gear has a problem. There's a longer delay, and rpm's go up. I believe that everything is pointing towards a bad solenoid. I think I'll just replace the solenoid pack, put new fluid in and see if it solves the problem.

Do you think I should rebuild the valve body as well? How difficult is it? Would it be similar to thread of the 5R55E?

Thanks

 

[imp]

Imp, sorry about taking so long to reply. I've been busy lately.

I agree with you, it's probably an easy fix, that's why the shop did not want to tell the code. They diagnosed it for free, so I can understand. I tried to have the transmission codes read, but no one wants to read it without charging me a leg. Bad economy, tough times. I'll try again tomorrow.

Anyways, I drove the car this weekend and noticed that the shift from 2nd to 3rd gear has a problem. There's a longer delay, and rpm's go up. I believe that everything is pointing towards a bad solenoid. I think I'll just replace the solenoid pack, put new fluid in and see if it solves the problem.

Do you think I should rebuild the valve body as well? How difficult is it? Would it be similar to thread of the 5R55E?

Thanks

You're welcome! I understand about an arm & a leg! A Ford Dealership in Bullhead City, AZ, charged us $75 to read the code, O/D would start flashing each time vehicle speed reached the point of engaging the Torque Converter Clutch. They suggested trying a flush and fluid refill; I ruled that out; we drove it home all the way to Missouri, over 1500 miles, with the l;ight flashing all the way! I bought a solenoid module on E-bay, installed it, and everything's been fine since, about 20,000 miles now. None of this really helps you, though, sorry, but my point is the code indicated failed T. C. Clutch Solenoid, and it WAS.

So, again, buy a solenoid module, if you wish, install it, and hope that will solve it. If it does not, the "dues" will be labor paid, you will have new solenoids, and further work will be needed.

Regarding the valve body, if it were my problem, I would check every valve in thev assembly for freedom of movement, replace the separator gasket, and re-install the valve body. If the oil pan is removed to access the solenoids, it would be par for the course to remove and check the valve body, as I described, re-install the solenoid module on the V.B., replace fluid filter and pan, fill with fluid, and try it out.

Please bear in mind, that a check of stored code(s) might reveal that the problem lies elsewhere. If 1st. and 2nd. gears seem to "pull" normally, but upon leaving 2nd. to shift into 3rd. gear, it appears to stop accelerating the vehicle, engine speed increases, as you say, and then 3rd. seems to finally "take hold", with engine rpm dropping back down, there is a possibility the Intermediate Band is slipping and failing to properly "hold" the Direct Clutch Drum from turning. This band is the only other major component which must function properly in 3rd. gear. Repair of a band failure requires transmission removal and disassembly. My opinion regarding the band problem likelihood is that, though a possibility, IF 3rd. gear is functioning to the extent that it finally DOES engage, and is capable of pulling the vehicle, band failure is pretty unlikely. It would have to be partially cracked, but not broken, or totally worn-out (VERY unlikely).

Hope this helps some, sorry I can't give more positive views; no one is an "Oracle" when it comes to these transmissions! imp

 

[DidiDavis]

I called the Ford dealer and they won't just retrieve the codes for me. They want 125 bucks to diagnose the transmission. Well, for 125 dollars I bought a scanner! I decided to buy one instead of throwing parts at the car. I may need to use it again in the future, who knows.
I bought the Equus 3130 Innova Diagnostic Code Scanner (http://www.equus.com/Product/Detail/7B4EE7FF-C0F7-42ED-A1D6-9633D987F5C2). I hope it works! It should arrive tomorrow. I'll retrieve the code and will post it here.

Please check back tomorrow! And thanks for your help.

 

[imp]

I called the Ford dealer and they won't just retrieve the codes for me. They want 125 bucks to diagnose the transmission. Well, for 125 dollars I bought a scanner! I decided to buy one instead of throwing parts at the car. I may need to use it again in the future, who knows.
I bought the Equus 3130 Innova Diagnostic Code Scanner (http://www.equus.com/Product/Detail/7B4EE7FF-C0F7-42ED-A1D6-9633D987F5C2). I hope it works! It should arrive tomorrow. I'll retrieve the code and will post it here.

Please check back tomorrow! And thanks for your help.

The tech. description sounds like this thing should retrieve your codes! Having spent this much dough, maybe you can get some back by advertising and reading for local people.........imp

 

[DidiDavis]

Hey Imp,

I received the scanner! I had no codes stored in the PCM. They were in the Enhanced Codes "section". Here they are:

P0796 - Pressure control solenoid C performance or stuck off. Replacing the solenoid module will correct this?

P1000 - Continuous OBD systems readiness not complete. I had to disconnect my battery the other day, and the EVAP system is still not ready. Maybe that's the cause of the problem and will go away on its own.

P1565 - Continuous speed control command switch out of range high. Is this indicating a problem with the cruise control? I'll search for it in forum.

So, what do you think? Are these bad or good news?

Thanks

 

[imp]

Hey Imp,

I received the scanner! I had no codes stored in the PCM. They were in the Enhanced Codes "section". Here they are:

P0796 - Pressure control solenoid C performance or stuck off. Replacing the solenoid module will correct this?

P1000 - Continuous OBD systems readiness not complete. I had to disconnect my battery the other day, and the EVAP system is still not ready. Maybe that's the cause of the problem and will go away on its own.

P1565 - Continuous speed control command switch out of range high. Is this indicating a problem with the cruise control? I'll search for it in forum.

So, what do you think? Are these bad or good news?

Thanks

Ahhhh! The thread was about transmission problems.....but some additional detected. My guess would be a replacement (NEW) solenoid module, the only way Pressure Control Solenoid C may be replaced (you get ALL 8 new solenoids, permanently affixed to the module, which screws onto the valve body), will likely eliminate the shift problem. Rejoice it's not saying "band" or "servo".

Sorry I can't tell you much about the other two codes, but seemingly, they are not significant enough to keep you from driving/using the vehicle. I would have to research both codes to tell you more; my sho[p manuals are not now available to me, until late next week. Hope I've helped! imp

 

[DidiDavis]

Good news then!

The 130 bucks spent on the scanner paid off. Nice piece of equipment.

I'll put in a new module. Would you recommend doing something to the valve body as well? I read about rebuilding it, don't know if that's really necessary in my case.

The truck has 182K miles by the way. I just bought it, and I don't know how long it's been driven with this problem. I'd say it has been like that for the past 40K miles. Could it cause any other problems?

FYI, I searched the other codes. P1000 will go away on its own, nothing to worry about. P1565 is probably due to a bad clockspring in the steering wheel. Easy fix, but costs some 100 bucks.... Since the cruise control is working fine, I'll wait to replace it further down the road.

Thanks!

 

[DidiDavis]

Ok, I found the solenoid module, but I'm not sure about the part number. Is 9L2Z-7G391-A the correct one?
Another relevant piece of information. I went under the car and there's a yellow plate on my transmission pan. It says to check "US and Canadian Dealers Only - Exchange Program - Prior to Repair See TSB # 00-16". Any clue of what is that?

Thanks

 

[imp]

Good news then!
I'd say it has been like that for the past 40K miles. Could it cause any other problems? Probably not, in my estimation. Anything further being caused by driving with the fault condition would have already quit working properly. My opinion, now!.....Thanks!

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[imp]

Ok, I found the solenoid module, but I'm not sure about the part number. Is 9L2Z-7G391-A the correct one? Cannot help you here. Try calling a Ford Parts Department, ask correct P/N for that year/model w/5R55W trans., if different, ask him to cross-check your number above. There possibly are modules slightly different from each other based on various vehicles using same trans. However, such requirements as operating pressures are likely programmed into the PCM used.
Another relevant piece of information. I went under the car and there's a yellow plate on my transmission pan. It says to check "US and Canadian Dealers Only - Exchange Program - Prior to Repair See TSB # 00-16". Any clue of what is that? No certain clue, but a guess: trans. was replaced with a Ford Reconditioned unit, and some nuances relating to that Tech. Service Bulletin were included in it.....See if you can search TSB 00-16; I expect if the module you obtained is the correct item for 5R55W, it will work out OK. Whoever does the work: Inspect closely for metallic chips/particles in oil pan, and on TOP side of valve body. This requires valve body removal to accomplish. Most gurus here seem to feel the valve body separator plate gasket should always be replaced whenever the oil pan is removed for such work. FYI, I did NOT replace mine when replacing the module, but DID remove the V.B., and found bronze chips on top of it, presumably from the guide bushing in the failed solenoid, in my case, the Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid. Good Luck! imp

Thanks

Edit: PS: You might try a PM to "swetrid". He knows a hell of a lot more than I about newer Ford stuff, earns his living thusly.

 

[DidiDavis]

Hey Imp,

I replaced the solenoid module, everything went fine. But I have a problem. I compared that part number (9L2Z-7G391-A) with the Ford Parts website, which showed me only the 7G391. Since they partially matched, I went ahead and put the new module in. I had to go to a ford dealer to buy a new transmission drain plug (I striped the inner bolt), and asked them to check the part number for the module. The problem is that they gave me a different number (1L2Z-7G391-AG). And they are not sure if the module I just put in will work.

What should I do? Should I put new fluid and see if it works? Would it hurt my transmission?

Thanks

 

[DidiDavis]

So, I decided to put some fluid in and see if the transmission works. And guess what, it works fine. The car shifts through all gears, no delays, no rpm going higher, overdrive works, the O/D light is off. I checked and have no enhanced codes. I drove for about 15 minutes and 10 miles and had no problem.

I called another Ford dealer and they told me the same thing. I put the wrong part in. The correct one is 1L2Z-7G391-AG. I'm not sure what to do now. Even though it's running perfectly, I guess I'll have to replace it. What do you guys think? Any experts in transmissions around?

Thanks

 

[imp]

So, I decided to put some fluid in and see if the transmission works. And guess what, it works fine. The car shifts through all gears, no delays, no rpm going higher, overdrive works, the O/D light is off. I checked and have no enhanced codes. I drove for about 15 minutes and 10 miles and had no problem.

I called another Ford dealer and they told me the same thing. I put the wrong part in. The correct one is 1L2Z-7G391-AG. I'm not sure what to do now. Even though it's running perfectly, I guess I'll have to replace it. What do you guys think? Any experts in transmissions around?

Thanks

It is likely the only difference between those two part numbers is the type of vehicle application, that is, programming to include heavy duty use, for example, w/tow package, etc. My opinion only, of course, but I think if it were me, I would drive it several hundred miles as it is, and see if any apparent changes in feel develop. Since FORD DEALERS are divided on WHICH NUMBER is correct, WHAT IF: what if the one you got is the CORRECT module for the application? Ford Parts Numbers, FYI, work like this: the first 4 identify year and engineering facts, the 7G391 means SOLENOID MODULE, and the suffix denotes changes made during production runs. I do not think you will screw up the transmission, if everything feels OK. Be sure the transmission shifts solidly at reasonably hard throttle, fast acceleration. If any "sloppiness" feels apparent between shifts, or if the engine speeds up during the shift, the module may be incorrect. Otherwise, it sounds like you have a winner! Let us know, whatever you decide! imp

 

[DidiDavis]

The Ford Dealers are not divided, I definitely have the wrong part. I bought it due to inexperience. Now that you explained how the part numbers work, I see that any solenoid module will have the 7G391.

But, so far, the transmission works well. Just keep in mind that I just bought this truck (with the transmission problem), so I'm saying that it works well based on the improvement I've seen. I have no idea how it is supposed to be. I believe you are right, maybe the programming is only slightly different and it works.

My transmission fluid was really bad, it seemed like used motor oil. There was a kind of very thin mud on the bottom of the pan. The old solenoid module was dirty too. I'm cleaning it up with clean fluid and syringes. Since I need to drain and replace the transmission fluid a couple more times to make it cleaner, I'll try to put the old module back in to see it works. What do you think? Would it be only a waste of time? Maybe it will work. I had 3rd gear before, it was just taking some time to engage (i.e. bad performance). If it doesn't work, I'll buy another solenoid module and sell the wrong one I just bought. This transmission has already 182K miles, I don't want to risk damaging all reducing its life because of a couple hundred bucks. It's not cheap, but I don't want to risk other more expensive problems.

Thanks

 

[imp]

Sorry......

It took so long to get back...tried last night, couldn't find the dang thread, with my dial-up computer......

IF it were me, knowing now a bit more of the transmission's history, I would surely try to get as much of the old fluid out (torque converter has no drain plug, proly), one way suggested, short of yanking the transmission out, and emptying the torque converter, is to add fluid through the fill hole, right-rear of case just above oil pan lip, while allowing fluid to drain out by disconnecting the fluid cooler line which FEEDS toward the cooler up front.....this way, appearance of oil coming out may be watched closely. This must be done with the engine idling, of course.

If continuing to use the present solenoid module concerns you, then get the correct one, and install it....BUT, try the thing out BEFORE you dispose of the "incorrect" numbered part. As for trying the OLD module, I would not. These solenoids seem to fail on a pretty regular basis, with much less miles than you mention. Remember, EVERY single thing the transmission does, every shift, every time you release the gas pedal, solenoids are being turned on and off. imp