my beast won't start (and yes i know what the search button is)

[shlompyboy]

well i've been searching this site and others for days..my 93' won't start..i have cleaned the terminals, and replaced the positive cable..at night and in the rain..(as this has been reported to be a common problem, and oh what fun that was!)..the reason i'm posting is simply because i don't have the money to buy a negative cable, then maybe a relay, then a starter, ect..ect..i was wondering if there is any sort of trick i can do to zero in on the actual cause of this problem beforehand, or do i just have to work through the different possibilities?..basically it will click, the water pump comes on, but nothing else..the battery is only 6 months old, and is reading well on my voltmeter..any tips or tricks to save this boy some time and money?..any and all input will be greatly rewarded with good karma..thankz..

jeremy..

 

[CADDYBILL]

Does the fuel pump turn on when you turn the key? If not check the reset button on the pass side inside firewall.

 

[shlompyboy]

i'm not sure about the fuel pump..there is some sort of pump that turns on when i turn the key (assumed it was the water pump)..my owners manual was stolen a few years back, and the Haynes manual is pretty much useless in finding the fuel pump reset switch on my 93' (i.e. consult owners manual)..but this is the second time this week this has happened, so i don't think it's the fuel pump..last time it was fixed with a battery terminal cleaning and a reconnecting of my auxillary battery (but both check out OK now)..and for the record, other tricks i've tried are jumping the relay (fender), and hammering the starter...both to no avail..hmmmm...

 

[Fischer]

Some Questions to Ask Thyself..

Does it make a noies at all when turning the key? "Click click"

Is this an automatic. I know this sounds totally elementary but my buddy sat for about 3 hours trying to jump start his truck (as he thought the battery was dead) only to realize that it was not in PARK! Needless to say he felt like an ass.
Could something be shorted with the tranny telling the starter that it is in park.

Do the headlights work?

Good luck bro. I really dont know anything else to ask that has not been asked..

If it is a gonner you could get a bumper sticker that says "If this were my horse I'd have to shoot it"

Well good luck man that really is a buzz kill..

 

[TwoToneX]

Originally posted by shlompyboy
i'm not sure about the fuel pump..there is some sort of pump that turns on when i turn the key (assumed it was the water pump)..my owners manual was stolen a few years back, and the Haynes manual is pretty much useless in finding the fuel pump reset switch on my 93' (i.e. consult owners manual)..but this is the second time this week this has happened, so i don't think it's the fuel pump..last time it was fixed with a battery terminal cleaning and a reconnecting of my auxillary battery (but both check out OK now)..and for the record, other tricks i've tried are jumping the relay (fender), and hammering the starter...both to no avail..hmmmm...

Just wanted to say that you can usually find an owner's manual for sale somewhere, like on Ebay, etc...Might wanna check that out...

 

[shlompyboy]

yeah, the relay clicks when i turn the key (does this mean the relay is ok?)

it is an automatic (and it is in park) ..suppose it could be a short..

and all the lights and accessories work..

guess i'll just hafta start replacing stuff if there's no way to zero in on it..hmmm..

 

[Stephen S]

I not 100% sure that the Explorer's have it, but on my old Ranger, there was something in the transmission called the nuetral start switch. It was a manual type switch (ie: not a sensor) that detected when the transmission was in park or nuetral, which told the engine it was OK to start when the key was turned. Well, the switch got stuck while pressed in (tells the engine not to start) and the engine wouldn't start...the starter didn't even engage. I took the same steps you did (shorting the relay, hammer to the starter), nothing worked. So I tried to start the truck in each gear, It wouldn't start in any gear but Drive. So I found the switch, changed it and everything was fine.

Like I said, I'm not sure if the Explorer's have a similar system but you are experiencing the same symptoms that I had. If the Explorer system is not just like the old Ranger, then maybe there is something else that determines what gear the transmission is in that allows the engine to start or not start.

Maybe it's the ignition switch itself that is not making contact??

 

[shlompyboy]

yeah, i just tried starting it in every gear..to no avail..thankz for the tip though..it's all worth a shot..

after replacing the positive cable last night, i am NOT looking forward to the negative..ouch..

 

[GJarrett]

Go cheap

You're putting way too much effort and worry into this. You already said it's happened twice and you fixed it once fiddling with the cables, and you've replaced the positive one already. I'll wager that you simply have an old negative cable with interior corrosion and/or contact to the block.

Your symptoms are classic for not getting enough amperage to kick the starter. Everything else seems to be working for you. As a matter of fact you went backward from what I would have done. I would have suspected a weak ground and replaced the negative cable first before I did anything else.

Double check and clean the contacts on that positive cable you already replaced, then go buy a new negative one, install it, and do the same thing.

Problem fixed.

 

[shlompyboy]

yeah, the infamous negative cable..i think that's what i'll do...thanks for the help everyone!..i'll letcha know it that solves it..

p.s. am i right in thinking that it will be much easier to replace the negative cable by first removing the oil filter?..

jeremy..

 

[jimmiecakes]

Voltage drops.... get yourself a little DVOM - radio shack has 'em pretty cheap. Read the booklet that comes with it or, better yet, see if your library has a book on learning how to use your voltmeter.

When it comes to electrical, a few simple test hookups can diagnose a problem that would cost serious time and or bucks to "shotgun".

 

[shlompyboy]

well i replaced the negative cable too..it still won't start..hey jimmiecakes, that DVOM your talking about..would that be able to tell me if it is the relay, solonoid or starter that's broken?..i'm just assuming it has to be one of these three things now from what i can find..the relay seems the cheapest at $15.00, so i'll prolly try that first, unless anyone else has an idea for me..all suggestions are welcome as i've been borrowing money from my work for parts, and i would prefer not buying anymore parts i don't need..thanks..

jeremy..

 

[SteveVB]

Starter

Since the relay is clicking I would replace the starter. If you have a meter check the voltage at the starter, just to rule out the relay. But it sounds like the relay is clicking so I bet its ok. I would replace the starter. Get the complete solenoid/starter assembly, you wont save much if anything removing the starter to get the solenoid off and putting it back together- starter is on and off in 5 minutes- it will take a 1/2 hour or more to replace the solenoid.

If you get a solenoid and install it I dont think you can take it back, so get the starter unit. I went through all of this early this summer, Good luck.

 

[GJarrett]

Sorry the negative cable didn't do it. It's always best to try the simplest and cheapest first. I hope you don't have to buy a whole starter, but it's beginning to look like you might. I can't tell from your posts... have you used your voltmeter to test if the starter is receiving the voltage at the starter when you turn over the key to start it?

 

[shlompyboy]

GJarret..the voltmeter i have is just a simple one with 3 lights for 5.0, 12.0, and 12.5 (flat, low, normal)..if this will work, where on the starter do i actually test..er..where do i touch the + and - at?..and what should the meter read?..i'm pretty dumb with all this stuff..i just kinda learn as i go along..but if i can replace the cables, i figure i can replace the starter if i need to, but yeah i would like to test it first, as they run for about $150 new, but i can get a used one for $30 if need be..thankz for your help..

 

[GJarrett]

Sorry I don't have a '93 but someone should be able to join this thread and tell you. There's gonna be a positive power cable to the starter and it will be easy to find. My thought was that you should be able to hook the voltmeter to it at the starter, ground the negative, and have a friend turn the key while you're under there to see if you're getting the full 12 volt juice when the key is turned. If you're getting juice to the starter and it isn't turning then I'd say that you're gonna have to shell out $$$ for a new starter. If the starter isn't getting any juice then you can look upline to other possibilities.

If the starter is getting juice you should be able to hear the solenoid kick the bendix gear (or whatever it is they call that thing nowadays) into the flywheel. If it tries to kick in but doesn't do anything you may not be getting enough juice to do the job, which is when doing things like fixing a bad/intermittent ground works. But you've already done that. If you're getting full juice to the starter and nothing is happening at all that should answer your question and you'll have to buy one.

One caveat: I had an intermittent problem with mine on my '99 after I took it fourwheeling once. It gave out symptoms like a bad ground or poor connection (tried to kick the starter gear into the flywheel but wouldn't do it sometimes) but that wasn't the problem. Ford wanted $$$ to replace the starter. I took it out, noticed that during my river crossings while fourwheeling that I had gotten sand into the starter gear shaft, and the water had also completely washed the shaft spotless clean. I wiped the sand out, coated the shaft with a dab of grease, and it still works today. Cost me 30 minutes work removing and reinstalling the starter and a dirty finger that got grease on it. Much cheaper than the Ford dealership's suggested fix of replacing the entire starter.

Good luck.

 

[jimmiecakes]

OK... the old farmers trick is to give the starter a sharp rap with a hammer (dont get carried away, you're not pounding fence posts) and try again. If this fixes the problem, then buy a starter.

After 30 something years, I am still amazed at the number of folks who would rather throw $500 or $1000 (and more!) in parts at something I might fix for under $200.

 

[shlompyboy]

well i just put a new starter in, and it started right up..i sure wish i had tested the voltage on the cables and connections before i replaced both of them though..oh well, live and learn..at least thats one less thing i have to worry about, and i've gained alot of knowledge..i just wanna say thank you to all those who have helped me get my truck running again..you are all very much apprieciated!...merry x-mas all..

jeremy..