My new tube bumper - lots of pics!

[glfredrick]

hey u you are goin to ruin your pump by laying it side ways and bending with it. all the fluid in your pump isnt going into the piston in the pump. u will blow seals and ruin the pump.

all you guys need to throw away these harbor frieight PIPE benders and go and buy a model 3 tube bender. you wont have any dimples in your tubing and have no kinks. there only 300 bucks.

I'll have to watch out for that, but I was under the impression that I could use it laying on its side becasue it has pads for that use built in... I'll let you know if it actually blows. Seals are not too expensive - and if I blow it, I'll just replace them. I'll probably order a couple sets to have on hand, just in case. Who knows when they'll change the part number of the jack... It's HF after all.

Oh - and a little update...

I did the thing with the larger tube (to give the smaller tube a place to ride so it's not directly in contact with the rollers) and it worked perfectly. Not a dimple in sight. This bender does an excellent job of bending pipe with no kinks once you get it figured out. No, it's not a JB3 or a Pro Bender... But, it's under $70 with all the dies to 2". They also have a 16 ton model that goes to 3" for you guys looking for larger pipe work for bumpers, etc.

I'm VERY happy so far... In fact, my bends look FAR better than the stuff I got from one of my local shops using the Model 3. They stay round and are perfectly formed now that I have gotten the hang of things.

 

[yosh18981898]

all you guys need to throw away these harbor frieight PIPE benders and go and buy a model 3 tube bender. you wont have any dimples in your tubing and have no kinks. there only 300 bucks.

Why should I pay three hundred for a bender when I can pay 70 and have it do absolutely everything I need it to, without dimples or imperfections? Besides that, the bender you're talking about bends tubing, and therefore comes with the wrong dies for pipe, pipe can be bought at the local menards or home depot for a fraction of what tubing would cost me from the hard to find tubing suppliers. Again, why should I pay $0.40 per inch for 1.5" OD HREW tubing (if I can find a place that sells it to the public) when I can get 10' of 1.25" ID pipe that carries the same ASTM strength spec as the tubing for $22.00 almost anywhere?

Sheesh! Some people and their dogmas...!

 

[Josh S.]

I think you guys are overlooking the bling factor here...jesus...j/k

I would much rather have a JD2 or Protools, and if I was to get a bender, this is what I would get. The HF one works, sure, and I have seen some very nice prerunners built out of them...but they are more limiting in terms of how far you can bend than a professional quality bender...I believe HF can only go up to 90*. correct me if I'm wrong. I just personally don't like HF anyways, except for their jackstands and cheap welding gloves and hammers and stuff. In other words I'm a fan of their "primitive" line but most other products there are cheapass crap from India or China...I like American made tools

 

[yosh18981898]

It's true they wont bend past 90 but so far I haven't encountered a situation where I needed to bend past 90- and I don't think I will when making stuff for the X.

It's also true that American made is better, by far, but 300 to 70 is the difference between owning a bender and making stuff and dreaming about owning a bender and making stuff.

 

[Josh S.]

Yah I hear ya...some of my buddies got a HF bender a little while back and have been cranking out bumpers like mad! I oughtta go check them out to see how they turned out...the cradling idea is a good one to get rid of the dimples...I've seen new pins made from tubing then the cradle welded to that (maybe thats what you did I dunno)...also heard of packing that **** with sand or something...Moving the pins to the farthest out position helps also...I have a great link with tips on getting grat bends out of this bender...I will dig it up.

 

[Josh S.]

Here's the link...should help all you HF bender dudes out there...
http://www.desertrides.com/forum/vi...days=0&postorder=asc&highlight=kinker&start=0

 

[smpfreerider69]

YOSH that harbor frieght has imperfections. how can u say that the bends are better looking a model 3 or pro tools. i can see the imperfections in the pics of your bumper. right where the bend is, it is flatter on the top. it should be the same diameter all the way through the bend. if u dont believe me then get a pair of micromters out and measure it.

your idea about galvinized tubing is fine if you are just using it for bumpers. but i wouldnt make a roll cage out of it. for one, good luck finding hole saw to notch the pipe, and your bumper and cages will weigh a million pounds. of course your 2.375 x .147 pipe is going to be as strong as 2"dom. IT IS WAY BIGGER. the reason dom is so popular and widely used is because it is strong, and also keeps the wieght factor in place, it is stronger then standard mild steel and also not twice as heavy. i am sure your piped bender isnt the lightest thing. u stand up for pipe like it is great, you might as well make your bumper out of solid rock. it will be strong, but heavy

 

[yosh18981898]

The bumper was the first thing I made on a harbor freight bender. I've since learned how to keep the pipe from flattening like that by packing it with sand.

The hole saws are plenty easy to find. Since pipe is used by plumbers, electricians, who need to run pipe through wood and metal there are plenty of hole saws availible. For instance: 3/4" pipe takes a 1-1/16" hole saw, 1" pipe takes a 1-3/8" hole saw, 1-1/4" pipe takes a 1-3/4" hole saw, 2" pipe takes a 2-1/2" hole saw...etc....but you get the point.

And I would build a roll cage out of it. If you design it right, it will be just as strong as a DOM cage, and only weigh 20 Lbs more. I'd rather have 20 extra pounds of pipe cage than pay $100 more for 20 Lb less DOM cage.

But each to his own. If you want to pay the extra for the $300 bender and pay extra for material, then I'm happy for you.

 

[Dug]

Deer is a beautiful animal. I look at it and then I shoot it. I dress it and then I eat it. That's why deer are here. It's a gift from God...by the way...Nice work on the bumper!

 

[Ford_Racing_Guy]

wow thats some good stuff there.


good work guys

 

[Savage Wolf]

all you guys need to throw away these harbor frieight PIPE benders and go and buy a model 3 tube bender. you wont have any dimples in your tubing and have no kinks. there only 300 bucks.

Yeah your right the bender is only $300... then add the dies (1 3/4" 240 deg 6" CLR = $295, and a 1.25" 240 deg 6" CLR is $235 Tubing dies), Stop/degree ring (nice if your planning to use the bender) the stand, ect.... granted that the HF bender doesnt make nice bends like the Pro-Tools bender but if your not running a fab shop or build a whole tube buggy/race cage the HF bender does fine for most of the guys on here
bang for your $$ you cant beat the HF pipe bender

oh btw i have a pro-tools MB105HD on order right now

 

[Savage Wolf]

The hole saws are plenty easy to find. Since pipe is used by plumbers, electricians, who need to run pipe through wood and metal there are plenty of hole saws availible. For instance: 3/4" pipe takes a 1-1/16" hole saw, 1" pipe takes a 1-3/8" hole saw, 1-1/4" pipe takes a 1-3/4" hole saw, 2" pipe takes a 2-1/2" hole saw...etc....but you get the point.

Think he was talking about notching the pipe/tubing for tight fit prewelding and it is needed to make a strong/safe cage

And I would build a roll cage out of it. If you design it right, it will be just as strong as a DOM cage, and only weigh 20 Lbs more. I'd rather have 20 extra pounds of pipe cage than pay $100 more for 20 Lb less DOM cage.

bumpers and brush guards ok out of pipe, but i dont know if i would use it for something that your life depends on not failing... I think I'll stick with my Drawn over Mandrel tubing for safty cages, and I'm pretty sure that the pipe isnt approved for safty cages by any racing body

 

[Josh S.]

bumpers and brush guards ok out of pipe, but i dont know if i would use it for something that your life depends on not failing... I think I'll stick with my Drawn over Mandrel tubing for safty cages, and I'm pretty sure that the pipe isnt approved for safty cages by any racing body

 

[yosh18981898]

If you look at the nearest harware store, you'll find that you can buy bi-metal hole saws in any size by 1/16"s.

If I was building a cage, I might spring for DOM, but I would still bend it in the HF bender

 

[Savage Wolf]

If you look at the nearest harware store, you'll find that you can buy bi-metal hole saws in any size by 1/16"s.

If I was building a cage, I might spring for DOM, but I would still bend it in the HF bender

not to knock the HF bender much but most cages need >90 deg bends
hell, even my bumper designs have >90 deg bends
IMO cutting corners bad on any safety gear even if its using the wrong tools for the job

 

[glfredrick]

Lots of ideas and debate going on here - and that's good. We learn things that way...

As far as my opinions about the tube/pipe issue -

IF I were building a race car that had to be inspected per track or sanctioning body regulations, I would build that car according to specifications allowed in that body.

Also -

IF I were building something to protect me in 200 MPH crashes against concrete walls with other 200 MPH missles comming at me, I'd think a LOT about what I built my cage with... ANd it likely wouldn't be DOM - It'd be Chrome Molly... TiG'd by a certified expert.

And -

IF I were building a competition rock crawler, where the expectation was that I would barrel roll down hills that would absolutely crush me - I'd go whole hog with my cage design...

But, on the other hand, most of us are building off-road vehicles that seldom see 25 miles per hour on our favorite trails - and we mainly want to come out of the roll-overs and tree/rock hits - body damage issues that are common to our sport - so in that case, I think that the pipe is fine - and far better than what most guys are using - absolutely nothing...

I've looked at the DOM cage work on a lot of rides - and have a pair of DOM sliders sitting in my workshop - all bent and ready to put on my Ex. The pipe I'm bending (at less than 1/3 the cost mind you) is STRONGER. I can move (flex) the DOM by hand by pushing on it - I cannot move the same sized pipe. It is more rigid. Now, that may also mean that it is more fragile as well, but, well, it bends without cracking - so I don't think so. It just has about 1/3 more wall thickness (something the DOM dudes look at when making certain parts!) and as such, it is simply more solid a piece than the DOM.

Now, mind you, DOM comes in all sorts of steel clasifications - from the EXACT same stuff as pipe to some exotic hardened stuff that isn't suitable for cage work. Most that I've seen locally isn't any better than the pipe I'm getting from my plumbing supplier - and in fact the pipe is better looking from a quality standpoint.

So, my personal conclusions are:

Get the best if you are doing the most radical stuff
Get what you can afford everywhere else...

I have yet to even bend one of the pipes I put on my Ex since installing them - and last weekend I bashed them off of almost every tree in the woods - that's why they are there... and they work. Bring me the pipe baby!

Oh -as an after thought... the HF pipe bender manual stipulates using sand fill, so they already know about that and recommend it. The rest of the instruction book is worthless - so it would be best to learn from each other the best ways to get good bends from this type bender. I'm SO pleased with my latest ones - not even a ripple... They are round and true as can be - FAR better that the ones on those DOM sliders I mentioned earlier... You have to consider the main reason that people bend PIPE... It is to hold stuff inside it - so round bends are critical to capacity. Round bends are the strongest as well - so both needs are served for our use.

Also - I can easily bend 90* corners - and can even go past 90* if I like. I haven't tried to see just how tight a bend I can get, but I expect that I can get around 110* if I push it. At some point, you will run into the limits of the die in a physical sense and start kinking the bottom edge (where it comes out of the die) but that is long past 90. So, do I think that I can duplicate the "stinger-style" front hoop as found on a lot of western Jeeps? Likely not - but I could if I were willing to cut and weld two pieces of pipe together...

 

[Savage Wolf]

pipe = bad

The ASTM A-53 spec is the American Society for Testing and Materials specification that covers seamless and welded steel pipe intended for mechanical and pressure applications, including ordinary uses in steam, water, gas, and air lines. Note that it says "mechanical applications" whcih means building things. Also note that the yield strength of this most common type of pipe is 30,000-35,000 compared to 32,000-40,000 psi for common 1010 ERW, CREW, and HREW compared to 70,000 psi for 1020 DOM and 90,000 psi for 4130 Cr-Mo DOM.

1020 DOM (which is a process used on ERW) IS alot stronger than that pipe you guys are playing with, and it helps to do some research before saying something thats not right....

DOM isnt hot rolled electro welded tube, and compairing HREW to DOM to Pipe is 3 totaly diffrent things

Ridgid really doesnt mean stronger, what wall DOM and what metal alloy?

Depends on your budget, needs, and ability to weld and stress relieve. 1020 DOM is an excellent all-around choice for most - clean, tight tolerances, good strength, reasonable cost, and fairly readily bent and welded. HREW is a good low-cost, easy to work with alternative for non-critical applications or mild use. Cr-Mo is the top of the strength scale (depending on condition, of course) but with some serious drawbacks: Unless properly TIG of Oxy-Acetylene welded AND properly post-weld stress-relieved all you have is an expensive pile of tubing no stronger than 1020 DOM (all you Cr-Mo MIG welders take note!!). It is also expensive and a bear to bend, cut, drill, and machine

Info to read DOM vs HREW vs PIPE
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-BV60/Materials/carbon_tube.htm
Hope your using Grade 3 pipe at the least...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-BV60/Materials/Pipe.htm

 

[yosh18981898]

OK

We never said pipe was as strong as DOM. We said the right grade pipe is as strong as HREW and often the same thing.


When my pipe bumper bends in half, destroys the truck, and kills 20 people, I'll tell you. Until that happens, please start your own thread for posting this information

 

[Savage Wolf]

OK

We never said pipe was as strong as DOM. We said the right grade pipe is as strong as HREW and often the same thing.


When my pipe bumper bends in half, destroys the truck, and kills 20 people, I'll tell you. Until that happens, please start your own thread for posting this information

sorry just trying to post correct info for those who might care (like for those looking in to making cages and what nots that it really makes a diffrence)

 

[glfredrick]

I agree with Yosh...

IF I were building a race car that hit walls at speeds in excess of 200 MPH, I'd be running chrome moly to franchise specs.

IF I were running UROC pro classes, I'd be using DOM, with a pro-built cage.

But, for the most part, we are just running trail rigs that never see past 30 MPH on the trail - and for those of us that also drive our stuff on the street, I PROMISE that the pipe we bend is multiple times stronger than the stock steel bumpers that come on our trucks from the factory.

Try this with a factory stock bumper...