Solved No start.

[danno2944]

Been busy, haven't had time to get after spark plugs until tonight, just been PB blasting them for days though and did get all of the three cracked on the drivers/easy side, and pulled the easiest one in the middle, cylinder 5.

The plug looks original, it is an autolite 300, the electrode is completely worn off with some carbon deposits.

I measured the gap out of curiosity and it is .080, lol

Compression was 115 psi in cylinder 5.

Going to get wheel off and get after other side tomorrow. And try to finish.

I have some Ngk platinums and am currently gapping to .054

Would anyone recommend going to .055 or 0.056 instead.


Ignition coil is getting power. I will test wires as well tmmrw.

Odd thing... it sounded better turning over with only 4 plugs igniting at the time during compression test (had 2 plug wires removed) and fuel pump relay removed.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Original plugs should be Motorcraft, and original wires will be branded with Motorcraft and “bougicord” as well as the cylinder numbers.

 

[danno2944]

Oh thanks I will check wires tomorrow for cylinder number.

So I guess the previous owner had the plugs done. If that's the case, there is still about 120000 miles on them. I googled auto lite quickly and seen motocraft owned it, so I assumed..

So if it has compression across all cylinders with spark and fuel and it doesn't start, we know it has slipped timing but the motor is salvageable, correct?
If at this point, you would drop the pan to be sure..

 

[koda2000]

.054 on the spark plugs. Why would you think wider would be better? The passenger side plugs will probably be in much better condition than the driver's side.

115 PSI is kinda low compression. Was that with the throttle body held open?

 

[danno2944]

i asked about gap, because I overthink everything.

TB was closed.

Thanks.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I’d start with the gap on the tight side of the spec.

 

[koda2000]

i asked about gap, because I overthink everything.

TB was closed.

Thanks.

The TB needs to be held full open during the compression test. That's why your PSI is so low and therefore inaccurate. I'd say you should have around 160 PSI on a warm engine.

Ford's spec for the plugs is .054. Over time the gap will widen do to wear, so setting them wider than .054 would cause them to get to/exceed .080 that much sooner. The driver's side plugs wear much more than the passenger side plugs due to the "wasted spark". When I changed the double platinum Motorcraft spark plugs in my daughter's 5.0L last spring (after less than 70K miles) the driver's side were so worn the my .080 gauge was a super sloppy fit. I'd guess they were .085 or wider. The passenger side plugs looked almost new gap-wise. IDK why Ford says the change interval is supposed to be 100,000 miles.

 

[danno2944]

Thanks, I did check forum quick before wrenching tonight, and managed to perform the test properly on cylinder 6 @ 140psi and cylinder 4 @ 137.5psi.
Got after the passenger side, couldn't get Cylinder 1-2 cracked, no room for leverage, I Did get Cylinder 3 plug out, it was very tight. But unfortunately the pressure tester brass fitting started to cross thread so I didn't get a test.
Made sure I could get the plug in and was successful. It was finicky, but it went in smoothly.

I needed to get it sealed before dark because all of the moisture from the spring, I'm basically working in a puddle, and it drops below 0 every night still. Oh, and no, I haven't been in any water/driving thru puddles etc.. with truck prior to no start.

Plugs looked terrible on bank 2, just completely worn out. You were right about bank 1 being better, the #3 cylinder plug at least had a bit of electrode.

 

[koda2000]

I don't have to deal with any rusted old spark plugs here in GA (no salt used on the roads here) so I use my impact wrench on it lowest setting to get my old spark plugs loose. I remove the front tires and splash shields and go through the inner fenders. This makes changing plugs and wire much easier. If I had extremely rusted heads and/or spark plugs (I've seen some beaut's here) I might be afraid to use an impact, but in that case you're going to be dealing with a nightmare situation anyway.

 

[donalds]

Put a ill bit of trans fluid on a he plugs and let it sit a bit then pop them out

 

[koda2000]

A 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone makes a great penetrant.

 

[danno2944]

All the plugs are replaced, I had compression of 120, 117.5 and 125psi on cylinders 1-2-3.
Cleaned all the terminals throughly and added a touch of dielectric in the appropriate places and Wala IT STARTED!!

Took it for a test drive it 5 kms and it ran well, the responsiveness is good.

Got home parked seemed normal.

I turned off-restarted and it started fine but a had a bit of a rolling idle while in Park?

Listened for vacuum just in case I hit something while working on it, but heard nothing.

Thought it was weird so put it in Drove another 4 kms and it was fine drove normal, idle is fine while stopped in drive.

Got back parked and the idle was normal again.


Not sure what the rolling idle was? About every 2 seconds it would increase a few hundred rpm, than go back to normal, on a very consistent pattern though.

I will check again later when it cools off again.

Thanks for all the help everyone!!! So happy it lives to see another day!!!

I read on a thread that holding the throttle down during start to get the dummy light on the psi then removing foot from throttle once that's achieved helps get oil to the tensioner quicker and helps overall. Did I understand this correctly? Is there any truth to this?

 

[donalds]

I read on a thread that holding the throttle down during start to get the dummy light on the psi then removing foot from throttle once that's achieved helps get oil to the tensioner quicker and helps overall. Did I understand this correctly?

You are correct hold it to the floor

And did you disconnect the battery if so it was just learning the idle fuel trim ......

 

[koda2000]

Glad you got it going. I'm a bit surprised the spark plugs alone did it.

"I read on a thread that holding the throttle down during start to get the dummy light on the psi then removing foot from throttle once that's achieved helps get oil to the tensioner quicker and helps overall. Did I understand this correctly? Is there any truth to this?"

Yes. As little as 4-5 seconds of cranking can get oil pressure into the tensioners.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Thanks for the update. Your thread is now marked as solved. I suspected that the spark plugs were the issue from your description.

 

[danno2944]

Good news, The truck hasn't experienced the surging during idle again so all is well.

Hopefully my fuel economy gets even better since it was surprisingly good with the crap plugs in.

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

Having done so much work and maintenance on this truck and so many new parts the last year, with it driving so well lately and after you put your blood, sweat, tears and money into these trucks for years and years and so many miles, you just never want to see them go...

 

[danno2944]

So cranking the engine to build the oil pressure up before starting completely eliminates my start up rattle, which is great? The question is whether or not it actually helps or masks the problem?
Does this mean my cassettes/carriers and tensioner are in good order and nothing has broken yet?
I realize I am in turn burning out a starter to save a motto which I am ok with, as long as it is effective.

 

[koda2000]

So cranking the engine to build the oil pressure up before starting completely eliminates my start up rattle, which is great? The question is whether or not it actually helps or masks the problem?
Does this mean my cassettes/carriers and tensioner are in good order and nothing has broken yet?
I realize I am in turn burning out a starter to save a motto which I am ok with, as long as it is effective.

I've been cranking my 200,000 mile SOHC engine (on its original starter) for 4-5 years and it hasn't worn it out yet. I find cranking the engine for 4-5 seconds is enough to build oil pressure in the tensioners, even though the oil pressure gauge doesn't move in that amount of time. 4-5 seconds isn't enough to put much extra wear on the starter motor and a starter is something that's easily changed/rebuilt if it does wear out.

The only way to know the condition of you timing chain components is to remove the valve covers and look at them. You can also remove your lower oil pan and see if there are broken pieces of tan plastic/metal in the pan. It's the passenger side/rear cassette that tends to break and which requires engine removal to replace. If nothing's broken it could be that the chain has stretched beyond the tensioners ability to take up the slack. If this is the case you might be able to replace the rear hydraulic tensioner with a Polaris manually adjustable tensioner. This might buy you some time, but the SOHC engine will eventually need its TC components replaced, which is a huge job.

Adding a pre-oiler (electric pump or pressure accumulator) would eliminate the need for cranking the starter motor, but you could probably buy several starter motors for the cost invoked with adding a pre-oiler.

I'm in the process of pulling the engine out of my SOHC Expl Sport Trac because it blew a head gasket, but I also plan to replace the TC components at the same time as I suspect I have a broken jack shaft tensioner and excessive chain slack. This is not a project for the weak at heart, those with minimal mechanical skills, nor will it be inexpensive. I've had to really think about doing this project and I'm not convinced that it is the right choice. It would have been much easier to just scrap the vehicle. Reman'd 4.0L SOHC engines are very expensive, quality is suspect and unbelievably some rebuilders don't replace the TC cassettes if they are not broken. A used engine (even a low mileage used engine) is also a big gamble for the amount if work involved in swapping it in.

With the 4.0L SOHC engine, it is not a matter of if the TC components will break, it's a matter of when.

 

[donalds]

Very well put koda
I do have to say my new remain engine has worked out well but I did buy it from a very good manufacturer and I added a pre oiler on install of the engine

 

[danno2944]

Thanks so much for all the knowledge.

My next dilemma is that I have ran regular oil for the life of the engine and recently switched to synthetic in the past 5000 miles maybe, now a Friend of mine tells me I got it ass backwards and that I shouldn't have switched? Any opinions on that? I switched when the rattle started, and the rattle has always has been quite minimal.

I have also always ran 5w30, would it be better to switch to 10w30 For the summer?