OD Light flashing constantly w/ new tranny

[Brain]

Well, I'm up for just a bit. Read through this post and think this might be helpful. The A4LD had a split seal (as shown in Glacier's post), but the 5R55E has a solid (non-split) seal. They come in two varieties - yellow and grey (grey is teflon impregnated). Jefe's 5R had a yellow seal, but the seal I got just the other day had the grey one. Since the grey one is new and the yellow one has 90K miles on it, I'm using the grey one.

This seal issue didn't get listed in my 8 part list (sorry - I guess I need to update my list), but I am always willing to try the simplest things first, which in this case would be either a problem with the solenoid or a sticky valve. Both of these things could be eliminated as the potential culprit by pulling the valve body, but the seal issue requires the removal of the entire tranny and torque converter.

I'm going to have to take a harder look at those seals.

 

[Brain]

Alright, I took another look at the seals and I was wrong before - the yellow one does have a cut in it. So the black one used on the A4LD has an angled cut, the yellow one has a straight "blunt" cut, and the grey one is solid (no cut at all).

The pressure to activate the TCC initially comes from the pump (as all transmission pressures do). The pressure/flow then goes into the valve body where it is regulated/controlled by three things: the TCC solenoid, the TCC shuttle valve, and the TCC shift valve. The pressure/flow then gets routed back to the pump body (for routing's sake, not to add pressure or anything) where it goes between the input shaft and the hollow splined part of the pump that goes into the TC. It then travels up and past the front bushing by means of four wide slots in that front bushing (the bushing that centers the input shaft which is shown more clearly in Glacier's picture of the front of the pump than in my picture below). This is where it activates the TCC. The pressure is held back by the black/yellow/grey seal on the end of the splined end. So as far as leaking seals go, either one (the bronze seal at the back of the pump or the black/yellow/grey seal at the front of the pump) could cause a loss of pressure.

Here are some pictures which will (hopefully) illustrate what I'm saying:

My thoughts haven't changed on what to check first, second, and so on...check/elimiate the easy/cheap things first.
1) engine problems causing the computer to keep the TCC disengaged
2) valve body and soleniod issues keeping the TCC disengaged
3) TC/pump seal issues keeping the TCC from fully engaging

Hope that helps - by the way...I know what you mean about it being a disappointment not working right the first time (even after their "dyno testing"). I heard that that is why tranny shops charge so much -> they have to expect to do a job twice or three times to get it right.

I do find it rather curious that the new seals are solid with no cut (and it seems to be a bit thicker - then again, I'm comparing new w/ used, which isn't fair). I'll post pictures of these different seals on my Frankentranny thread when I get some pictures shot (I don't have the camera right now).

 

[Glacier991]

Now tell me, where else do you get THESE kind of answers to your trannie Q's. And he's on Vicodin! Lord help us.

 

[IZwack]

Hey thanks for all the info there Brain! I do remember the yellow seal having a straight vertical cut on it.

Brain, in your reply (reply #17) on my other post (http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1071613#post1071613), you mentioned that the P1260 code (theft detected, engine disable) is probably not the cause of the P0741 code. Which makes sense because, as you've stated, not allowing the TCC to lock up is a very poor anti-theft system (maybe Ford only wanted the thief to get away at lower gears). Well seeing as the shop only saw 2 codes (1260 and 0741), I hope we can isolate 0741 from 1260 as the two codes are probably not related.

So the paragraph above hopefully crosses out Brain's option "1) engine problems causing the computer to keep the TCC disengaged" since no other engine-related codes came up on the scan other than the theft-related issue. And by the way, my X does have issues with the door not being lockable via the "lock" buttons on the two front doors. The only way to electronically lock my X is via the rear lock switch on the driver side all the way in the rear beside the rear glass window. Sooo... the P1260 code is probably related to this door-lock malfunction issue and probably not related to the P0741 TCC code.

As for option number two (before we move onto option number 3) which focuses on the valve body and TCC solenoid, I will call the shop today that did the diagnostics to see if they checked these two items. If they did, then we can move onto option 3.

Just planning for the future here: if the problem is the "Fluid Pump Support Seal Ring" (part of Brain's third option), the seal/ring that I want is the Gray one right? Not the yellow and not the black A4LD one (with the angled cut). By the way, how do you get the uncut Gray seal on if it does not have a cut to allow for a little expansion when its slid over the pump shaft?

Just as an FYI: Though I will continue onto Brain's 2nd option, I am starting to suspect that it is the 3rd option because I removed the TC a few times before it was actually bolted on to the flywheel so the seal/ring might have been knocked off or something during one of those TC installations.

 

[Brain]

I hope it is something with #2 also as it will be a lot easier to fix than pulling the tranny. The inside of the TC has splines also, so it could have gotten damaged when putting the TC on the very first time....the manuals don't say anything about that that I can remember. I haven't installed the grey one yet (because I'm still dinking around with the TC), but it is alsmost rubberlike (that's probably the reason it isn't solid teflon, it is just impregnated with it), so I think it will stretch a bit and then return to the smaller diameter.

With no codes present, I think you can eliminate #1. The first test to see if the computer (or bad connection) is keeping the TCC from locking up can be done from the outside (as well as seeing if the soleniod is bad). I'll have to get back to this in a little bit.

 

[Jefe]

P1260 should have nothing to do with the transmission. It is related to the PATS system (chip in the key). Unless you have problems starting the engine I'd guess that you have another transponder on your keyring also that is confusing the system.

 

[Brain]

Here is a tech bulletin published about the front pump seal (forgot I had this one). Notice that it was published in '97, so it doesn't have the solid (uncut) teflon (grey) one listed. That part number (for the grey one) is 3L2Z-7L323AA, so just the first four digits are different from yellow to grey. Also notice the the trouble code you listed is listed there as well. This might be the problem, but it is the deepest/hardest one to get to, so I'd still check the easier things first.

http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/A.../56351048/34853741/34850750/42063452/57919563

 

[IZwack]

Uh oh - Jefe's in here now too - Mr. SAS, coil overs, atlas, 700r4, etc.... etc... hehehe

I dont believe I've damaged any splines because I only used my hand to install the TC - gently turning the TC a little to the left and right in order to get the splines lined up.

I called up Roadmaster this morning and actually talked to the same tech that ESF spoke to a few weeks ago. Anyways, it turns out that in ESF's case, the torque converter had to be replaced. If ESF shows up, hopefully he/she will be able to paint a better picture for us about this.

Roadmaster also pointed me to two local shops where I can drop my X off for proper diagnostics. So i'll be doing that later on this afternoon when I get off from work (I'm driving my parent's car right now). I will keep the board posted when I find more info tomorrow afternoon.

About that Gray uncut seal, the Roadmaster tech told me that this seal is not for the 5R55E - the seal is actually for other (I'm thinking latter) versions of the 5R series (I believe he mentioned the 5R55S and 5R55W). According to this tech, the Yellow ring/seal is the right one for the 5R55E.

 

[Jefe]

Uh oh - Jefe's in here now too - Mr. SAS, coil overs, atlas, 700r4, etc.... etc... hehehe

I've been here for a while. . . see post #5

 

[IZwack]

lol oh yeah!

Well my X is at a local tranny shop now - I will post back whatever comes up sometime in the afternoon tomorrow. Thanks again to everyone for their contribution.

 

[ESF]

According to the paper, the technician's name was TT but I do not believe that is who we dealth with on the phone. The problem turned out to be a bad torque converter. Roadmaster overnighted a new one to the transmission shop that I took my Explorer to and Roadmaster also paid the entire cost, both parts and labor. Hopefully that helps you.

 

[Brain]

I didn't mean to imply that you had damaged the splines, but that the edges of the splines inside the TC could have damaged the seal (yellow in your case).

That is interesting about the Roadmaster tech saying that the grey seal isn't for the 5R55E. I got the seal kit package in my hand right now...TransTec brand. Here's what the package says:
"Sealing Ring Kit
4R44/55E, 5R44/55E
1997-UP
3424
Not all parts of U.S.A. origin
08/16/04"

Since it has only been a couple of months since this thing has been packaged, I'm left wondering if the Roadmaster tech is wrong in this case....? It clearly lists the 5R55E. The TransTec part number for this kit is 3424, just in case there was any confusion on the package markings. It had three seals for the pump, two for the center support, and two for the forward drum, for a total of seven seals for about $16.

 

[IZwack]

ESF thanks for the info - the tech I am dealing with is "Billy" who is very helpful. Billy told me quite a bit about your situation and how it was fixed.

Brain interesting info you presented - please keep us informed when you put the Gray seal in.

 

[IZwack]

quick question: does the transfer case determine the shift points of the tranny? i mean if nothing in the transfer case is changing (its not shifting to low or hi), the t-case should have no influence on the shift points right?

 

[Glacier991]

No. It does not.

 

[IZwack]

Okay Thanks Glacier!

 

[ESF]

Out of curiousity, does your explorer shift pretty firm with the tranny you got from Roadmaster? Mine shifts pretty firm and the manager at the tranny shop called them about it and they said it should shift hard becuase they put a superior linkage kit in. Anyone know anything about that?

 

[Brain]

There are several brands of shift kits available (Superior, Transgo, etc.) and most of them have options to "firm up" some or all shifts, which is (for the most part) a quicker application of the applied clutch/band. There are pros and cons to each of the kits, or firming up shifts in general. Most of the kits' components are applied to the valve body.

 

[Glacier991]

The shift kits themselves give you options in regards to how "firm" you want to make the shifts. Most of those kind of options either involve drilling out accumulator pucks, or webs, or separator holes in sizes to vary the firmness... in some cases adding in stronger or weaker springs or deleting certain parts. You have a range of options. I chose to be cautious - since busted bands HAVE been an issue. A FAST and STRONG Apply might accelerate possible failure was my thinking. I did both the Transgo and Superior based on good advice - I forget who... it might have been at SteveVB's suggestion. I was glad I got both. So SteveVB if it WAS you... thanks!

 

[IZwack]

ESF >> yeah the Roadmaster trans that I recieved does shift hard - though I'm not sure yet if its shifting hard because of the codes or what.. but I will let you know how it shifts after this 0741 code gets taken care of.

To get everyone up to date - the 2nd shop that I brought my X to said exactly the same thing that the first transmission shop said - that the transmission has been installed perfectly and that there is nothing wrong with it. Both have stated that it is an electrical problem. So I will drop it off at the dealer this afternoon and have them check out the shindig.

One interesting thing to note is that at the GLUE.UMD site (Dead Link Removed) states is that the transmission is influenced by the voltage regulator (which in our case is part of the alternator). The first paragraph on that site states that his X was having problems with the OverDrive with a messed up alternator. And the shop stated that my X did die (battery wise) a few days ago so I too am starting to lean towards the electrical problem idea. Any thoughts on this?