Oil viscosity and engine sound

[O.Madsen]

Hey guys.

Just got the truck back from the shop where i got an oil change & filter change.

When i parked at home from work i noticed that the engine was "ticking".. It does that half a second sometimes when i start up in the morning. But now it was constant.

Went out to check it again just before. It is "ticking" like the injectors are way noisier than usually.. I took it for a spin and after some minutes the ticking went away. I parked the car, popped the hood and just listened. It is like the engine is just more noisy in general. Like you can "hear/sense" the parts inside rotating more than usual...

I was thinking about what oil they put in my truck. And wondering if it was wrong or what.. Luckily i have a clever girl that checked the bill from the shop..:

I asked for mobil1 10w40 synthetic... They have put Mobil1 5w50 .. i dont know if its synthetic or not..

But.. Can it really just be the reason for the mmuch longer ticking sound.. that only goes away when driven for some miles?? And is this oil bad for my engine? 4,0 SOHC.. This engine has been running on Mobil1 10w40 synth. for about 7 years.

I dont remember how the table is.. if the 50 is thinner or thicker than the other and so on..

A long with your opinions about the noise, if anyone can remind me how this oil viscosity number thing works i would definately appreciate it.

I will get that oil changed no matter what to the correct one. And i surely hope this oil change will make things back to "normal"..

I would love some feed back here. I am a bit concerned about this sudden change in my engine sound!

Ole

 

[CmdrPopNFresh]

i wouldnt imagine that that slight of a change would make a difference but if you asked for and PAID FOR 10w40 synthetic then they should have given it to you. if youre really worried about it i would make sure that they at least used a synthetic since you asked for it. and if you paid the higher price and didnt get synthetic then someone owes you a free oil change or something.

 

[Scooty]

Madrid,
The way it was explained to me by a my physicist mentor -
think of oil weight like ball bearings
5 = small bearings or thin oil, 50 = large bearings or thick oil
Mobile 1 is good oil but 5w whatever is mostly 5 weight with some 50 weight.
the ratio is a mystery and inconsistent between producers and varys within a brand.
5w50 is mostly thin and has no place in your older vehicle (in my opinion)
5w oil is how the manufacturer gets high fuel economy numbers in new vehicles.
it is also a ploy to get you to trade it in when it starts making noise.

I have a 2000 with only 59,000 mi. but I run 20w50 Valvolene. I think the synthetic is unnecessary and costly but I do include 1/2 quart Lucas Oil additive. I don't like hearing those noises either. I also cringe at the thought of the next oil change, draining out expensive synthetic oil to be dumped in the recyclers drum. It only gets burned at the asphalt plant.
I change my own oil and fill it to 1/2 quart over the mark on the dip-stick because the dip-sticks are many times missmarked. Its cheap insurance.
It also makes it easier for your oil pump to prime.

get some more feedback on this as I am sure everyone has their own theorys.

Later
Scooty
If it aint broke, fix it untill it is.

post script;
Do a web search for the "Motor Oil Bible". Ther is more information in there than you need.

 

[jlsparky7]

The way oil weight works is the first number is the "thickness" of the oil when it is cold the second number is the "thickness" of the oil when it is at operating temperature. I prefer to run lower weight oils in typical application vehicles. My truck and explorer both get 0w20 in the engine and my Sportbike and ATV gets 10w40 because it is a racing application. The more "heavy duty" the application GENERALLY the thicker the oil you will need.

The thicker an oil is the more resistance it will have to movement. Which is bad in my opinion. You want a free flowing oil that can get to the top of the engine fast when you start it. Also it seems to me like a thinner oil will filter much easier.

Look at transmission fluid, its basically the consistency of water. A very light oil that protects well and removes heat well.

Thicker oils to me just seem like they wont protect as well, but that is just my opinion.

As for the ticking trying running some seafoam in with your oil as you may have sticky lifters or valve seals and some in the gas tank incase you have sticky injectors. There is a how to video in my signature but it is very easy. 1/2 can gas tank 1/2 can oil filler cap. No need to change the oil, just leave the seafoam in till your next oil change is due.

Also, if you have an area to work on your explorer I HIGHLY recommend you start doing your own maintenance. Many quick lubes 1/2 arse the vehicle care, although there are honest people out there. Vehicle maintenance is easy once youve done all the fluids once.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto, you have a 5 weight oil when cold, and 50 weight when warmed up. All high quality synthetic oils should do better than the normal standard oils, of any weights compared. The synthetic oil is that much better.

The thinner cold oil is likely the extra noise you hear, but if the oil is really synthetic, it should do fine for your current oil change. Have them change it out if you like. Consider that the engine may need some work, if it's the SOHC V6. I use Amsoil 0-20 I believe, in my SOHC. It takes just a moment of noise at start up to build pressure, then there is no noise.

 

[O.Madsen]

I use Amsoil 0-20 I believe, in my SOHC. It takes just a moment of noise at start up to build pressure, then there is no noise.

This is what i have normally as well.. Only a brief moment and the engine runs smotthly and really quiet. - I want that back.

Madrid,
The way it was explained to me by a my physicist mentor -
think of oil weight like ball bearings
5 = small bearings or thin oil, 50 = large bearings or thick oil
Mobile 1 is good oil but 5w whatever is mostly 5 weight with some 50 weight.
the ratio is a mystery and inconsistent between producers and varys within a brand.
5w50 is mostly thin and has no place in your older vehicle (in my opinion)
5w oil is how the manufacturer gets high fuel economy numbers in new vehicles.
it is also a ploy to get you to trade it in when it starts making noise.

Thanks for clearing this up for me again..


BUT. This morning i went to work. And upon startup and during the whole trip the engine sounded fine. Like usual. This was a relief. But it makes me wonder also. I am wondering if something clogged the ol delivery for the valvetrain a short period of time yesterday or something like that. Cause i am 99% sure this was where the noise came from. I wont find out i guess unless i investigate further by keeping this oil, which i will not.

By the way. The new filter is a FRAM.. (i dont have a variety of filter brands to choose from. I just have to take what i can get here in Spain) I know how this filter is looked upon from many of you. Maybe this plays a part in this event also. I dont know yet. But i will find out.

Im a bit under preassure, since i am supposed to take the truck for a 1200km drive this weekend. I dont want to do this without getting the "right" oil in the truck. So i hope i can find a place they can change it after work that carries my Mobil1 10w40.
When i get that changed, i will know if this is the cause or if the filter plays a part as well. If the noise is not gone with the oil change, i wont take the truck this weekend and i will order another filter from abroad... To play it safe and for myself not worrying, we will take the chinese plastic car.. (toyota yaris) instead .. But i sure hope not. i really do hate driving that midget thing.. Its also scary in dense spanish traffic and the kamikaze driving style people have here.. Youre as safe as in a cardboard box..



Im curious to figure this out...

I will let you know. and thanks for the feedback guys!

Ole

 

[jlsparky7]

Even if you cant get an oil change at least get that garbage Fram oil filter off of there.

If you can, try the new 0w30 mobil 1. Even if you have to order it im sure that start ups will be much better so give it a shot.

 

[nitro71]

People keep tossing out different oil weights. Use whatever the manual recomends for your engine. Synth or non-synth, doesn't matter as much. Use any filter but a Fram. A good filter is a Wix, Napa Gold, Mobil 1, Purolator and downward, Motorcraft, Bosch.. Supertech... then Fram.

 

[O.Madsen]

engine sounds nice again.. but will it last?

As u know i had no excess noise whatsoever this morning. Not even the usual one i have the first half/whole second when the engine is cold in the morning..

I took it for a spin before i was going to the shop. And nothing.. It sounds like always.. So.. I drove all the way home. popped the hood.. Still nothing. It sounds like usual.. So i didnt go change the oil.. YET..

But i am really wondering about this. I have a feeling that the awful noise was cause by something clogging the oil feed to the valvetrain (isnt that the word in english? ).. And not the diference in oil viscosity... Cause. it seems unlikely (thats why i asked in the first place) that that change could cause all that.. ?

I will test it later on.. hot/cold engine starts, to try and provoke it to do it again. But im a bit confused... Can it just be that? .. And if it doesnt appear the next days.. What do i do? i am thinking a flush.. ?

I need more time to test this to figure out what caused /are causing this. I dont feel like ignoring it, cause if it clogged.. i really dont want that to happent going 60 miles an hour on the highway listening to "clutch" really loud on the stereo so i wont hear it before damage is done.. :

Even if you cant get an oil change at least get that garbage Fram oil filter off of there.

All the bad words about this filter makes me nervous.. i am seriously considering getting another.. :

Today: testing... Tomorrow.. Portugal. I hope i find the confidence and b*lls to take the Ford, being unable to produce the bad noise.If i cant we are going in the Ford... Otherwise.. Chinese plastic car.. It is.. -

We will see about that.. But it sure makes me feel better the truck sounds healthy again...

I will let u know later this evening, what the verdict is..

 

[nitro71]

I wouldn't strip a paid Fram filter off if it was one of there nicer ones, toughguard, whatnot, but I wouldn't run it to 4000 miles either. Put 3K on it and yank it.

 

[O.Madsen]

Just took it for a drive.. Nothing out of the ordinary.. it was perfect.. Left it alone for 30 mins, and nthen i went to "prep" our tour, cause i was pretty damn sure we were going in the ford, cause there was nothing..

But i started it.. And there it was.. suddenly. That horrible ticking.. goddamnit..

I will go out in 30 mins and start it up again to see what happens.. and then i will take it for a spin if the sound is there. I bet it goes away after a couple of minutes of driving..

What is going on??? This stinks!

I can see the Toyota smiling in the parking lot..

 

[O.Madsen]

Ok. I have the exact symtoms now..

Ok.

Since the oil change specificly:

Cold engine startup: No problems at all.

Warm engine startup: BAD ticking :thumbdwn:

I took it for a ride. As i guessed. After a few minutes, the engine sounds sweet and healthy again... :scratch:

It seems like the oil looses its pressure totally when the motor is warm.. But not cold..
It seems like a clogg would seem more coincidently... Not only when the motor is hot..

I dont know anymore.. Im baffled and confused...

So:

Cold engine GOOD
Warm engine BAD

What can this be? What makes the engine loose so much preassure in such a short time, when hot?

I have NO leaks at all. Not a single drop.
I seriously doubt that going from a 40 to a 50 can cause that drop
The only other change that was made at the same time was the filter... Can the filter cause this? But only when the oil is hot?

Help me guys.. This makes no sense for me..

 

[Scooty]

Try not to worry so much and enjoy your tour.
It's a tough vehicle.

 

[O.Madsen]

Hahaa.. Thanks.. That actually makes me feel better..

I will let u know what i will do when i get back. I will find another filter. I am really curious about this issue im having..

Have a nice weekend y´all. I know i will.The Mrs. has already packed the bikini.. .

 

[Scooty]

That's what it's all about.
Take photos.
Share them.

 

[jlsparky7]

a w40 oil is only 10 weight above whats recommended, however a w50 oil is almost double whats recommended.

You will be fine for the trip. I would add 1/2 a pint of seafoam to the oil and let that help thin out the oil and clean some of the debris out of the engine. Then when you get back put a 0w20, 0w30, or 5w30 fully synthetic oil in with a quality oil filter and call it good for a year or 10,000 miles.

W50 is a very thick oil for that engine. W50 is almost like a syrup consistency. Its made for diesel engines and severe racing conditions, not for a daily driver.

I have a 2001 ranger with 86,000 miles on it. I run Amsoil 0w20 and havnt changed the oil in 14,000 miles. I will be changing it at 15,000. Some people that run amsoil NEVER change there oil, they change the filter and top it off. Now thats a quality product.

 

[Scooty]

I guess I'm old school.
When I pick up a used vehicle with 53k on it I er on the side of thick.
But I am learning some things here.
I also er on the side of 1/2" over the full mark.

I am assuming Madrid does not have crud in his engine after the oil change.
And has been doing the right things all along.

A single overhead cam shaft with roller followers does not have lifters to get sticky.
Perhaps its just the pistons rocking. Alot of what you hear on startup is skirt slap because the oil has drained off back to the crankcase. As soon as they are bathed with oil they are quiet. Shut off a warm engine for a few minutes and then restart hot may be rattly in the bores for a short time. I guess the pistons cool faster and heat goes into the block that stays hotter longer. More tolerance more slap. It's the way of the aluminum engines. Normal. Ethonal in fuel makes this even worse.
But its a Ford, it's tough.

 

[CDW6212R]

Whoa, back up. Stop praying to the bible(owner's manual). The 50 weight is not like syrup, and not made just for racing or diesels.

All oils made today are better than any oil made 25 years ago. Any oil used today in any engine no matter what the "book" says is far superior and capable of functioning than an older obsolete oil. I grew up using 20W50 oils in my vehicles, it was great oil for the time and worked well. That was vehicles like anyone would own, typical cars, all Fords in my case. They were not race cars, and the "book" didn't recommend it. Today's oils are far better than ever, but the air filter and oil filter are equally important. Buy the best of them and the engine will last much longer. The quality of the oil is far more important than the viscosity grade.

Stop thinking that the world will end if you do not use the magic stuff that the owner's manual recommends. What are schools teaching these days? Can nothing get done without consulting some book or otherwise being told what to do?

Think for yourself, learn some common sense(to make a decision without a book). The purpose of oil in an engine is to lubricate parts and transfer heat away from wear areas. All quality oils do that, every single one, all grades.

If this was about some cheap gas station brand of oil I would never run the odd viscosity that differs from normal. I would not use that cheap of a product to begin with. But this is all about a quality oil, Mobil 1, used in a normal engine. It is fine and will do absolutely no harm in any normal time period such as 3000-5000 miles.

I would recommend keeping it in the engine, it did not cause the noise in question, and a different oil is not going to magically fix it. I suggested changing it before if it would make you feel better, not because it needs to be changed.

I fully endorse Amsoil products, but they are not magic either, change the oil at the proper interval.

 

[jlsparky7]

I guess I'm old school.
When I pick up a used vehicle with 53k on it I er on the side of thick.
But I am learning some things here.
I also er on the side of 1/2" over the full mark.

I am assuming Madrid does not have crud in his engine after the oil change.
And has been doing the right things all along.

A single overhead cam shaft with roller followers does not have lifters to get sticky.
Perhaps its just the pistons rocking. Alot of what you hear on startup is skirt slap because the oil has drained off back to the crankcase. As soon as they are bathed with oil they are quiet. Shut off a warm engine for a few minutes and then restart hot may be rattly in the bores for a short time. I guess the pistons cool faster and heat goes into the block that stays hotter longer. More tolerance more slap. It's the way of the aluminum engines. Normal. Ethonal in fuel makes this even worse.
But its a Ford, it's tough.

Filling the oil past the full mark is a bad idea. The crank can come down and splash in the oil cause air bubbles that can be sucked up by the oil pump.

Whoa, back up. Stop praying to the bible(owner's manual). The 50 weight is not like syrup, and not made just for racing or diesels.

All oils made today are better than any oil made 25 years ago. Any oil used today in any engine no matter what the "book" says is far superior and capable of functioning than an older obsolete oil. I grew up using 20W50 oils in my vehicles, it was great oil for the time and worked well. That was vehicles like anyone would own, typical cars, all Fords in my case. They were not race cars, and the "book" didn't recommend it. Today's oils are far better than ever, but the air filter and oil filter are equally important. Buy the best of them and the engine will last much longer. The quality of the oil is far more important than the viscosity grade.

Stop thinking that the world will end if you do not use the magic stuff that the owner's manual recommends. What are schools teaching these days? Can nothing get done without consulting some book or otherwise being told what to do?

Think for yourself, learn some common sense(to make a decision without a book). The purpose of oil in an engine is to lubricate parts and transfer heat away from wear areas. All quality oils do that, every single one, all grades.

If this was about some cheap gas station brand of oil I would never run the odd viscosity that differs from normal. I would not use that cheap of a product to begin with. But this is all about a quality oil, Mobil 1, used in a normal engine. It is fine and will do absolutely no harm in any normal time period such as 3000-5000 miles.

I would recommend keeping it in the engine, it did not cause the noise in question, and a different oil is not going to magically fix it. I suggested changing it before if it would make you feel better, not because it needs to be changed.

I fully endorse Amsoil products, but they are not magic either, change the oil at the proper interval.

w50 oil is just like syrup. Ive ran it in several vehicles and drained it from several vehicles. Its MUCH thicker than needed for a typical application.

Im not going to turn this into an oil nit pick thread but GENERALLY speaking heavier oils are for diesels and racing. Look on ANY oil manufacturers website and you will see it.

Amsoil has 15,000-25,000 mile drain intervals for a reason. If you run it dont waste you money changing it before it is needed.

 

[O.Madsen]

Im back.. Still the same..

w50 oil is just like syrup. Ive ran it in several vehicles and drained it from several vehicles. Its MUCH thicker than needed for a typical application.

Im not going to turn this into an oil nit pick thread but GENERALLY speaking heavier oils are for diesels and racing. Look on ANY oil manufacturers website and you will see it.

I used to run 29w50 in my old mini´s. I agree with you in this. It is really thick.

If this was about some cheap gas station brand of oil I would never run the odd viscosity that differs from normal. I would not use that cheap of a product to begin with. But this is all about a quality oil, Mobil 1, used in a normal engine. It is fine and will do absolutely no harm in any normal time period such as 3000-5000 miles.

Guys. It makes sense... all of it. I agree that the oil is thick, but i also do not think this causes any harm. UNLESS. That the viscosity causes "abnormal behaviour".. Such as that sound i am experiencing at warm startups.

I am the type of person that does not like my engine to sound "abnormal". In my world, things that sound unhealthy. Probably is. And i want to correct it.

This is getting exiting i think. It seems like opinions differ much in this subject.
But to make it less complicated, i will see if i can find the cause.

I will get the oil change. I am exited to see what happens. If the issue is still there its time for the filter. I will do the oil first, as i dont know how many days (maybe weeks) it will take to get another filter sent her...

I am exited to see who is right here. I honestly dont know. But. I am 100% sure that the cause IS either the filter or the oil..

We will see...

And by the way.. Port wine is amazing when you get the "real McCoy".... But gives monster headache also.. and vomit.. Lots of vomit.. :

My gas mileage was actually not bad, even though my brakes started dragging a little bit ( great...). I used 1 litre pr 10 km (sorry, im in Europe.. We dont do miles) at 100 km/h (60 miles/hour). And if you werent sleeping in geography in school, you would know the majority of the way is up and down mountains.. I am quite pleased with that result. But as you can see. I drove slooow... 6 hours both ways.. I only stopped for fuel once every way..So.. Im kind of tired now.. :

I hope i can get the oil change tomorrow. Lets see what happens..

Hope you guys had a nice weekend too.

Ole