Outer Tie Rod End - Aftermarket Failures!

[Thallarsen]

Let me first say this:
I can't say that what I'm about to describe would apply to any year other than a '99 - or if it would apply to a 2wd or a 4wd (anything other than an AWD).
I can say that it applies to installing Duralast (ES3461) outer tie rod ends on a '99 V8 AWD

4 years and 20k+/- miles ago, I did a suspension/steering overhaul. It was well in order since my EXP had 210k on it and I was getting some pretty noticeable clunking in the front end. My steering was surprisingly tight, but the clunk was mostly noticeable when going over bumps.
I figured an a moderate steering overhaul was in order (no work on the rack, springs or steering box).
I replaced my upper & lower ball joints which I thought was the culprit; shocks, sway bar links, inner & outer tie rod ends...followed by an alignment.
All seemed good for about 4k miles. Then I started to get that thunking sound when going over speed bumps or small potholes. I was second-guessing myself, wondering what I'd missed. Torsion bar?
I noticed that it didn't take going over bumps to make the clunk come about...simply steering from left to right & I'd hear it.
I checked the steering linkage while my son steered side to side, and sure enough, visual play on both outer tie rod ends. A mechanics steth. confirmed that the ends were definitely the source of the clunk. I double checked that they were properly seated and tight, and they were.
When I removed them, they were sloppy to say the least. In fact looser than the oem ends that they'd replaced, and this was only after 2 or 3k miles!
So I took them back to Autozone and got a replacement for each side. This was only about a year and 2k miles ago.
Now, again, clunking coming from the passenger tie rod end. I'm guessing that the driver's side isn't far behind.
What gives?
Admittedly these are cheap when compared to other that are out there, but they have a Lifetime Warranty. I mean, really....2k mile life span?
Has anyone else had this experience?
Any recommendations on quality tie rod ends?

 

[EMG7895]

i'v had very similar results with a duralast hub I bought in a bind. I have had good results with moog tie rod ends except for a torn boot on one after about 2000 miles

 

[Thallarsen]

I'm looking at the Moog right now. Even though they're priced higher than OEM & almost 2x what the Duralasts (Fragilefails) cost, they seem to be heavier duty than the OEM.
Considering that I've needed an alignment every time I replace these, I wish I'd gone with something other than these Duralasts first time out.
Oh well

 

[SoNic67]

Did you lubricated the tie-rod ends when you installed them? I think those require lube - they have the lube port on them. I did the same mistake once... the second time I wondered what is that thing that was sticking up from the top of them.
The OEM ones are lubed "for life".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB2RiRKDQ9k

 

[Thallarsen]

...I think those require lube - they have the lube port on them....The OEM ones are lubed "for life".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB2RiRKDQ9k

Both sets that I got didn't have the grease fitting either pre-installed or in a baggie like some other lubricatable components (like U-joints). These were sealed w/out a threaded opening - or a grease fitting. Just to be sure, I checked before install, and they were 'pre-lubed' with a dark red lube.
I suppose those with grease fittings are the higher quality parts. Moog has the grease fittings.
I'd say that you get what you pay for, but considering the time & effort of having to do my third tie-rod end swap, going to Autozone to get replacements, then again to get my money back, and finally the time and cost of getting two alignments at $80 a pop; it turned out that my saving $40 on a 'economy' pair ended up costing me hundreds.
Simply put, these shouldn't have failed, and they should be pulled from the shelves.

 

[SoNic67]

Ah... the ones that I got from Advance Auto Parts had the grease fittings in the bag. First time I saw them (10 years ago) I trow them away After 1 year (next inspection) I was changing them again. Live and learn.

Now I see that even the Moog ones (at AAP) don't have that fitting anymore.

 

[CDW6212R]

Do not buy Moog parts. Try a different brand, like McQuay Norris. A lot of Moog parts are being made in China now BTW.

I'm avoiding Moog now, they have no warantee besides through their few vendors. I bought Moog BJ's and bushings for my car, and paid to have them installed. When I got home I discovered that one of the boots for the ball joints was too small. It was a Moog imprinted boot, but could not be used. I called Amazon where they came from, an discovered that the only choice was to return the ball joint, which was installed already at a cost. They wanted me to remove the part and return it, to swap for a different part.

The BJ was not bad, the boot was the wrong part. I called Moog and found out about their unwillingness to get a proper part from their production facilities to send me. They would not do anything. They said the entire part had to be returned to the seller.

That's just wrong, I told the guy I understood that they were choosing to avoid customer service issues with that bad policy. He agreed but would do nothing. I told him I have a black list, and that I'd not be buying any of their parts ever if I have a choice about it.

This is my first time spreading the word about Moog in print, don't buy those parts if you can help it. It might be more trouble than it's worth to buy Moog parts.

 

[Thallarsen]

Too late - almost.
Don, your advice about buying online & possibly having to deal with warranty is good advice. I'll buy locally where I can at least walk into the store & get a replacement or money back (let's hope the Hell it doesn't come to that again).
I had ordered a pair of Moog's thru Amazon, but was able to cancel my order as it hadn't shipped yet. I've now done a bit more research on these & it looks like cold formed steel is the way to go. There's some debate about what BJs to buy, but it seems to be down to Moog, McQuay-Norris or Raybestos. I'd think that this reasoning could be applied to tie rod ends. The guys in this discussion are all over the map. Some are standing behind Moog, as they claim still US made. Others are in agreement with you: now made in China. So what about McQuay Norris?
When looking up McQuay Norris, Affinia comes up as the manufacturer/parent company.
And guess what....the Affinia number for the standard outer tie rod end is ES3461. The same number for the AZ ends that failed on me twice. Coincidence? Maybe they're sourcing the standards out to China and keeping the Extremes made here in the states. It's hard to tell.
I can't imagine it being too hard to find parts like this made in the US. I want to stay away from Chinese made parts - at least when it comes to something in which installation is the big nut.
I called CarQuest who used to carry Moog. They now carry Raybestos. I guess I'll drop in & take a look at the Raybestos - mostly to see if they're made in the USA. If not, I'll move on.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ah, McQuay Norris. The Raybestos might very well be a great part. Jon from here recommended those too, as he has been researching ball joints also for his truck.

 

[BrianDye]

Hm, I did my Moog balljoints about 4k ago, and everything is great (Knock on wood!)

I would definitely never buy Duralast for a crucial part like this, although I did skimp and buy Duralast brake pads awhile back. Never had bad luck with them though.

 

[2000LXS]

I have duralast outer tie rods and they were worse than the ones I took of at 125k and they had less than 3k the new ones have 1k and I hope they last more than the first set the design changed since the last time maybe they upgraded them since the first time I got them. I also put duralast inners but they are still like new.

 

[SoNic67]

I think that in recent years the parts store brands shifted almost completely to chinese manufacturers... Same part, made in China (stamped on the body) apears to be sold in US under 3-4 brands now. And is not only for those tie-rods - saw it recently with the syncronizer.

Ford OEM parts have huge markups when bought straight from dealer. If you order them online from somebody like RockAuto or even Motorcraft (pick up at dealer) is a little better pricewise.

 

[Thallarsen]

I agree with all of your comments.
I'm no gung-ho "Buy only American" guy, but there was a lesson learned here. Many of these companies are cost cutting by outsourcing to China without regard to maintaining the quality standards that their parts - or acquired company once had. With that comes the lack of customer support that many of these US manufactures have been wise to not abandon.
Like Brian says, better think twice before using Duralast - or any other China sourced manufacturer for critical parts.
Not that there isn't a use for cheap parts here & there.
I'll now be putting Duralast and other Chinese-sourced manufacturers in the same category as Harbor Freight tools: okay for simple, easy-install non-critical applications. Don't use for critical or labor intensive applications, or situations in which your life or limb relies on the quality of the part/tool.
I'll report back when I check out the Raybestos tie rod ends.

 

[Thallarsen]

So this is what I learned:
First off, I was able to speak to a courteous, very knowledgeable technician at Affinia Group within about 30 seconds, and I'm not a dealer or distributor - just a retail consumer. That's the sign of a company who stands behind their product, IMO.
Secondly, the M-N (Affinia) Extreme line of tie rod ends are made here in the good 'ol USA in Oklahoma. No comment from Affinia on the Standard line, so I assume that they're Chinese sourced. That's okay for a cost-effective alternative, but I'll stick with the US parts & US customer service, thank you very much.
Affinia supplies what they call the Extreme outer tie rod end (ES3461E for a '99 EXP) to Napa who packages them as Napa Chassis Parts (269-3087); and they supply to CarQuest packaged with the Raybestos name (401-1748). Prices are roughly in the under $35/per range.
And another thing: although Autozone uses the same number for their basic outer tie rod end (ES3461) as Affinia for their Standard; Autozones chassis parts aren't made by Affinia. Affinia doesn't supply to Autozone.
Hope this helps.

 

[CDW6212R]

Thanks, that is the hard work, decoding the part numbers by brands.

 

[SoNic67]

Thanks for sharing... I had my doubts about Autozone bussiness practice before, looks like my suspicions are correct. They are as deceiving asa they can go by, staying in the limits of legality. Smart for them but bad for clients...
I am with you... I like cheap parts, don't care where they are made - but not as cheap that they fail clearly sooner than OEM. At present labor costs (or my time), I don't mind to pay extra for parts that have a longer life... Actually I am looking for/expecting LONGER life than OEM.