Overheating? Gears grinding? Waterpump?

[tylerwiseman1992]

Hey guys,
So I have a slight dilemma, last weekend it was pretty hot here in Iowa and I was pulling out some hedge roots with the Ex. :exp: I had 5 to pull out, and everything was going smoothly at first. I pulled the first 3 out with a little jerk in 4-low and it was going good. So I was pulling on the 4th one and I was reving it up quite a bit since my explorer is a 5 speed and it was requiring some jerking on the chain to get it out. But right as It came up i noticed a grinding noise like gears that were stripping, I had originally thought it may have been my transfer case because i know it needs replaced. I moved it around a little after and it didn't do it again so i continued on my way to pull the last one, which came out with no problem. So right after I finished i noticed my heat gauge was pigged almost all the way up, almost to its max, if not there. So i drove it around the block to see if it would cool down, but no luck. :thumbdwn: So I stopped back at house and let it cool off, and noticed my coolant was boiling. So after it cooled down I popped my radiator and the coolant was a little low (probably all that boiled back into the reservoir since it wasn't that low) so i drove it home and realized that the only way i could keep it cool (now 75 degrees or so during the evening) was to turn my heat all the way up and suck some of the extra heat off the engine. I decided I probably shouldn't drive it to work this week and drove my escort. I went to start it this weekend and when i first started it i heard the grinding noise just briefly after the start then it was gone, i could rev it up and move it around and nothing. I then let it set awhile while i was working on my car and when i started it again the same thing happened. Grinding noise then nothing, ran fine after 5-10 seconds. So I'm curious is there any gears in my water pump that could be stripping under stress and causing my cooling system to not perform as intended? Or am i missing something?

 

[Anime]

Revving the engine in place with no airflow, you probably overheated the engine and damaged the thermostat, which more often than not, causes it to close up, to the point it either slows the coolant flow or, worst case, completely shuts and stops all coolant flow.

Best bet is take out the old thermostat and replace it with a new one, something like the Stant Superstat 195 degree, a standard replacement, is good and only costs a few bucks.

You may need to replace the water pump or fan clutch as well, depending on age and mileage. If they have never been replaced, it may be worth replacing the fan clutch to get better cooling performance if you continue to use your Explorer like that. Sometimes the original Motorcraft water pump will go 200,000 miles and beyond, but if the water pump is the source of the grinding noises, it needs to be replaced ASAP. A water pump doesn't have gears, just a bearing and an impeller that moves the coolant, and a bearing that goes bad will squeal, squeak, or grind. It may be that the bearing only makes noise when the engine is first started, and once the coolant flows, the noise stops. The noise could also be something else though, either another bearing on a pulley or a slipping serpentine belt. A slipping belt can affect coolant flow too, so if the belt is slick/shiny on the smooth side or has small cracks on the grooved side, get a new one.

 

[2stroke]

My first thought is to take the belt off and wiggle the pulley. The bearings in the pump are probably bad, and now the fins are too. Its possible your thermostat failed as well, and its a good time to flush the cooling system.

 

[FR-425]

Sounds like the fan clutch to me.

 

[natenkiki2004]

Sounds like the fan clutch to me.

I agree. It probably is factory original and leaked out all the viscous fluid and didn't engage when it should have. I've found an at-temp engine doesn't take too terribly long just idling before the fan clutch engages, couple of minutes at most. If you didn't hear it kick in (louder whirring sound that increases with RPM) then that's your culprit. Replace with a Hayden Severe Duty and hope nothing got damaged from overheating.

 

[Anime]

I wouldn't suggest using the Hayden "Severe Duty" fan clutch in an Explorer with a 5-speed that is used in Iowa. It's just going to waste fuel forcing the fan clutch to be constantly engaged, even when the cooling system is at or below operating temperature.
It's really made for use in hot climates like the southwest, in vehicles that need extra cooling for A/C when the ambient temperature is HOT, or when towing extremely heavy loads.

You can use the "Heavy Duty" version, (the same clutch that comes from the factory in Explorers with an automatic transmission), if you want more cooling. Plenty of manual transmission Explorers came with the Heavy Duty fan clutch from the factory, as the "Super Engine Cooling" option for towing. It provides more cooling without being complete overkill for northern climates.

 

[natenkiki2004]

The Severe Duty isn't engaged all the time. I have it in mine, and it's the same one I removed. It takes a while idling or hill climbing before it kicks in, about the time the temp gauge hits O in NORMAL.

According to Hayden, the Heavy Duty and Severe Duty are very similar:

Standard Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 50-60% of shaft speed when engaged. Used with fans with lighter pitch. (1-1/2" of pitch) Flat plate impeller design with 30 Sq. In. of working surface.
Heavy-Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged for increased cooling. Used with deeper pitch fans. (2 1/2" of pitch). Land and groove design with 47 Sq. In. of working area allows higher operating RPM's.
Severe Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged. Used with deeper pitch fans. (2- 1/2" of pitch). Land and groove design with 65 Sq. In. of working area. Larger working surface provides cooler running and longer life expectancy.

 

[vq5speed]

Just reading the Hayden site seems they have a 4th style called "truck fan drive" has the same percentage shaft speeds as the Severe duty clutch with up to 150 Sq. In. of land and groove cooling fins. Wonder if they make one to fit our X's

 

[natenkiki2004]

Looking at their catalog, they only list the 2717 and 2793 for our Explorers.


I actually have a correction on what their site says, it also says this:

Standard Duty Thermal
Turns fan 60-70% of shaft speed when engaged
Disengage to 20-30% of the shaft speed
Used with lighter pitch fans. (1-1/2” of pitch)
Flat plate impeller design with up to 11.4 Sq. In. of working surface
Identified by a smooth steel faceplate & thermal spring assembly on the front side



Heavy-Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 70-90% of the shaft speed when engaged for increased cooling
Turns the fan 25-35% of the shaft speed when disengaged
Used with deeper pitch fans. (2-1/2” of pitch)
Land and groove design with up to 27 Sq. In. of working surface
Identified by finned aluminum faceplate and thermal spring on the front



Severe Duty Thermal
Turns the fan 80-90% of the shaft speed when engaged
Turns the fan 20-30% of the shaft speed when disengaged
Used with deeper pitch fans. (2-1/2” of pitch)
Land and groove design with up to 72 Sq. In. of working area
Larger working surface provides cooler running and longer life expectancy
Thicker body and deep finned faceplate dissipate more heat
Can be used in place of many heavy-duty clutches

If that info is more accurate, the Severe Duty actually spins less at idle than the Heavy Duty but spins more when engaged. Better cooling when you need it, better MPG when you don't. Sounds like a winner to me.

Hayden doesn't actually list a Heavy Duty fan clutch on their catalog.

 

[tylerwiseman1992]

So I'd like to start off by thanking everyone for the fast replies and input. But I also guess I'm kind of dumb for not looking into it more before posting. I had a few minutes before work today so I decided to pop my hood and play around with the fan clutch and possibly pick my bosses brain about it at work. Now here comes the dumb part lol. When I was inspecting I first noticed marks on my fan that something was hitting it, after some peeking around I seen that the bracket that holds the hose between my ac compressor and condenser had came off somehow and was hitting my fan, and after my engine idled down would actually stop my fan all together. This explains the grinding noise when it started and why it would go away and seemed to run fine after a couple seconds. I guess I should have at least looked into the fan a little more but I was assuming the worse, I'm just glad the ex is ok and after reading through the comments I also like the idea of the Severe Duty spinning about the same at idle and more under stress, so I think that will be something I'll be upgrading before the end of summer. Thanks again guys and have a good one. Until next time xD

 

[Number4]

Replace the fan blade as well. The plastic where the blade attached to the 'base' will starts to crack and eventually fly off.

Another member posted this. It was hard to see unti the fan came out, but sure enough,my 94 was headed for disaster.

 

[natenkiki2004]

Yea, if you're going to replace the clutch, throw on another fan blade, they're not that expensive. If you want to know how your clutch is doing, spin the fan with the engine off, it should spin freely with a bit of resistance, then get a bit more resistance as you spin. Also, reach in front of the fan and feel the center of the clutch. If it's wet or has goo/grease on it then the clutch fluid is leaking and it should be replaced soon.

That said, glad it wasn't a major issue and hopefully a quick fix! Thanks for sharing, it's sometimes the simple things

 

[Anime]

Hayden only makes the Standard and Severe Duty fan clutches for the Explorer, but you can get the "Heavy Duty" from other manufacturers, or get one for a 91-97 with auto transmission from Ford.

It may be best to replace the fan clutch with the same type that is in it already, especially if it's a standard fan clutch.

Replacing a fan clutch with a Severe Duty one doesn't always give more cooling capacity, sometimes that 80-90% engagement just puts more of a load on the engine, which causes it to run hotter, and any extra cooling the fan clutch does just makes up for the additional load on the engine. So you don't really get any more cooling, it just wastes more gas. You also do want to use a deeper pitch fan, otherwise it's just spinning a shallow pitch fan faster, but not actually moving more air through the radiator/condenser.


Best bet may be to replace the fan clutch with the same thing that's on it, whether standard or heavy duty, and just get the new 10-blade fan. The 10-blade should move more air without going to a different type of fan clutch.

 

[2stroke]

That still doesn't explain why it was overheating when driving around.