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Solved PATS key sucsess! Thanks Forscan

springwater

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What does the theft light do if you just turn the key to ON without trying to start? Just trying to determine this is a PATS issue and not a bad starter solenoid.

You can read PATS status (see how many keys are programmed) with ForScan without needing the 2nd key yet.

In the on position, before the start position, all of the cluster lights will come on as normal. The theft light will also come on and remain on for a few seconds but will then turn off.

At no point does it do a fast blink.

The key in every other position or with the key removed, the theft light will simply steady blink.
 



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In the on position, before the start position, all of the cluster lights will come on as normal. The theft light will also come on and remain on for a few seconds but will then turn off.

At no point does it do a fast blink.

The key in every other position or with the key removed, the theft light will simply steady blink.

Ok and after the theft light goes out and you attempt to start it what happens with the theft light?

This is sounding more like a starter issue.
 






springwater

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Ok and after the theft light goes out and you attempt to start it what happens with the theft light?

This is sounding more like a starter issue.

When I actually try to start, all of the cluster lights including the theft light go dead.

Even the radio goes blank.
 






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When I actually try to start, all of the cluster lights including the theft light go dead.

Even the radio goes blank.

Power is cut to the radio intentionally in start mode.

Try with the headlights on. If they go out/dim your battery is dead.
 






springwater

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Power is cut to the radio intentionally in start mode.

Try with the headlights on. If they go out/dim your battery is dead.

Ok. Tried as you suggested. The light didnt even flicker, absolutely steady the whole time as if it was unaffected.

I did charge the battery all night its now testing at 12.75.

Does is still seem like its a PATS key issue?
 






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Ok. Tried as you suggested. The light didnt even flicker, absolutely steady the whole time as if it was unaffected.

I did charge the battery all night its now testing at 12.75.

Does is still seem like its a PATS key issue?

Sounds more like a starter solenoid or relay/wiring issue to me.
 






springwater

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Sounds more like a starter solenoid or relay/wiring issue to me.

Would you happen to know, if the anti-theft system has been activated (whether due to the key losing its programming or some other reason), would this be considered normal operation.

By that I mean, would the anti-theft system prevent the car from starting/turning over as it is now?
 






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Would you happen to know, if the anti-theft system has been activated (whether due to the key losing its programming or some other reason), would this be considered normal operation.

By that I mean, would the anti-theft system prevent the car from starting/turning over as it is now?

The light would normally rapid flash if it's a PATS issue.

Some models will still turn over with a PATS issue and not start (some disable starter some disable fuel or ignition).

Do you have a separate security system with starter disable?

I would turn the key to the on position and pop the hood and use a wire to connect the + battery terminal to the starter solenoid input wire and see if it starts.
 






springwater

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The light would normally rapid flash if it's a PATS issue.

Some models will still turn over with a PATS issue and not start (some disable starter some disable fuel or ignition).

Do you have a separate security system with starter disable?

I would turn the key to the on position and pop the hood and use a wire to connect the + battery terminal to the starter solenoid input wire and see if it starts.

Nothing after market, everything is stock.

But I think you may be correct. According to everything Ive read, the theft light staying on for a few seconds then going out is "proving out" as normal, meaning that its recognizing the key.

Is the input wire going to be found on the starter itself?
 






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Nothing after market, everything is stock.

But I think you may be correct. According to everything Ive read, the theft light staying on for a few seconds then going out is "proving out" as normal, meaning that its recognizing the key.

Is the input wire going to be found on the starter itself?

vzyph2.jpg
 






mustnged

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Just to confirm, if I only have 1 key for my 2004 explorer, the Forscan software with OBD usb device can program a second key? I don't need 2 existing programmed keys?
 






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Just to confirm, if I only have 1 key for my 2004 explorer, the Forscan software with OBD usb device can program a second key? I don't need 2 existing programmed keys?

Forscan can program from scratch. In fact many times you actually clear all keys before programming to clear out keys you don't have. You will need program at least 2 keys before the vehicle will start.

My explorer showed 3 keys programmed when I got it but I only received two when I bought it so I did a clear all then reprogrammed the two I have.

You must have two keys, don't matter if they are programmed or not. They also must be two unique transponder keys NO CLONES as they would essentially both be the same key to the computer.
 






mustnged

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I am prepared to order the OBD SX device on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181845322454?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2650&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

and order 2 keys

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-Replac...ash=item280404599d:g:UbMAAOSwHnFVrrDV&vxp=mtr

Once I download the Forscan software and hook the OBD device to laptop, these Ebay keys will work?

Thanks for clarification. I just don't want to order the wrong stuff

Amazon is cheaper if you have prime, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ZWM0R4

Ya should work, you will need to get the keys cut somewhere first of course. Walmart won't do it. Can try Lowes.
 






mustnged

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Update on my project:

I received my OBD device and my 2 spare keys.
Went to Lowes and the lady said they don't cut keys. She kept reiterating it in different ways expecting me to leave. But I just kind of stood there and said the internet says Lowes cuts the keys and that's why I'm here. After about a 5 minute standoff, she just decides ok nevermind, she will cut the key. Why even sweat me in the first place?
So I had the key cut, went to the car, and it opened the door. So I stuck in the ignition, and only one side works. She must have not cut one side properly but I wasn't about to go back. Here is the bizarre part. They key STARTED the car. Just from cutting the key. I was shocked. Wasn't expecting the key to start the car. Guess I didn't have to buy the OBD device after all.
 






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Update on my project:

I received my OBD device and my 2 spare keys.
Went to Lowes and the lady said they don't cut keys. She kept reiterating it in different ways expecting me to leave. But I just kind of stood there and said the internet says Lowes cuts the keys and that's why I'm here. After about a 5 minute standoff, she just decides ok nevermind, she will cut the key. Why even sweat me in the first place?
So I had the key cut, went to the car, and it opened the door. So I stuck in the ignition, and only one side works. She must have not cut one side properly but I wasn't about to go back. Here is the bizarre part. They key STARTED the car. Just from cutting the key. I was shocked. Wasn't expecting the key to start the car. Guess I didn't have to buy the OBD device after all.

Odd, I would still run forscan and read the PATS with it and see what's going on. Are you sure you didn't get the key mixed up with one that was already programmed?
 






alan71

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Odd, I would still run forscan and read the PATS with it and see what's going on.
Could be that the new key and old key were on the same ring? If she cloned the key it would work.
I agree with the person who said you should see what is going on!
 






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Could be that the new key and old key were on the same ring? If she cloned the key it would work.
I agree with the person who said you should see what is going on!

He ordered blank keys from ebay, no way they'd be clones.

Ya do be sure you don't have more than one PATS key for any vehicle on the same keyring.

Once in forscan see how many keys are programmed. If the number is higher than the number of keys you have clear all and reprogram what you have.

As far as only one side working, that's usually because of copying a worn key. This is why it's best to get them cut at a locksmith with a digital key cutter that will cut by code instead of the old key. Basically makes new originals. But it's hard to find a locksmith with this equipment that is affordable.
 






mustnged

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:usa:The solution to my problem was to get a good key. Even though Forscan showed that the key that I had was compatible, it was bad. So I got a key from Ford and it programmed with no problem.
Bob T
:usa:

This post saved me. It was precisely the problem I was having.
I messed around with the Forscan Pats ability, and while trying to program my keys, I managed to mess up both keys from starting the car! I spent all morning trying to figure out the problem. I went from 2 working keys to 0.

Since the Forscan software emphasized to have 2 Pats keys, I inspected my keys practically under a microscope and discovered my original working key was engraved with an "S" while the ebay key had "SA" engraved. After researching the difference, "S" is a 40 bit key while "SA" is 80 bit. I figured this is where I messed up. But after further research, I found out 80 bit is backward compatible and should work with 40 bit systems. The Forscan software repeatedly programmed the original key successfully by recognizing it as 1 successfully programmed key. The ebay key kept saying successfully programmed but Forscan reported 'PATS reported success, but counter of programmed keys has not been increased". This made me draw my own conclusion that the ebay key was a cheap knockoff!! My intuitions were correct . After further research, I discovered one of the only brands that work as original keys is the brand Strattec. when the ford dealer opened at 7am, I went there and they sold me a Ford key in Strattec packaging. They cut the key, I went to my car, and BOOM. the keys programmed successfully.
So the lesson was DO NOT use the ebay cheapo keys as the first 2 keys. The ebay keys will only program after the first 2 are programmed.
I now have 3 functioning keys! Hope this post helps others from going through the same dilemma I went through. And thanks to RWT's post that allowed me to follow in his footsteps
 



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Harpua216

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Confirming that this is a HUGE lifesaver for PATS keys. This will save you some trouble and $$ :

1. dont use a clone ELM327, they dont work - after trial and error this one works amazing (ps i have bluetooth on my laptop, if you dont its a $5-10 usb piece)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B019OP475A/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_ef0mxb09BB0PW

2. Get a Strattec key from Ford ($25) and dont have them program it. do not get one from ebay at first at least. I did and it will not program...but the ford key did and does.

3. $5 Key cut at your local locksmith (or convince Walmart to do it free)

4. go to Forscan, download the windows version and follow the instructions on the forum for an extended trial license. (it came in less than 24 hours via email)

5. Follow the instructions for PATS ignition key programming and grab your tasty beverage and hang out for 10-15 minutes (following on screen instructions, you have to switch keys quickly.)

Enjoy and PM with any questions. Thanks to the Original Poster for the write up - it saved me about $70 and i wont have a problems with these Ford keys again!
 






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