Pros & Cons?

[4X50 Exploder]

I have the front end off the X and I have, on hand, all the parts for rebuilding everything outside of the carrier housing and installing 5.5" of lift. This chassis is going under my 1950 F-1 truck body. I do not know what size tires I will end up going with untill I mock up the body. Once I know my tire size I will pick my gerar ratio and maybe a locker...

I really hate rework!

What I am hoping for is feedback on whether or not I should go ahead and replace the seals and bearings on the carrier housing or wait till I am going to do the re-gearing???

Will the entire axle arm have to come back off to do any of those seals/bearings or the re-gearing if I wait to do it later?

The lift package and other parts have all but busted my budget for this quarter. If the carrier seals and bearings don't have to be done with the axle arm removed, I would rather use the money I have left to buy new spindles and brakes so I can roll the chassis in and out of the garage for other work like the SOA conversion...

Thanks, in advance, for your inputs/wisdom!

 

[4x4junkie]

The axle has to be pretty much completely disassembled to regear it, so I would probably wait on doing seals and stuff (you'd be chancing damage to them as well when you go to take it apart the next time).

Once you have it apart again, all the seals will be right there, just pop 'em out and replace them.

Also I should mention, on that 5.5" suspension lift, be sure to also get a Skyjacker pt# FA600 drop pitman arm to go with it so your steering linkage geometry will be acceptable. The arms that come provided in such kits are the wrong length and won't put the linkage down flat like it's supposed to be.

 

[4X50 Exploder]

Thanks for the feed back on seals.

I don't understand your referance to the pitarm from Skyjacker though. Looking at there site, they offer a 1-2" lift. I have on hand the 5.5" from SuperLift including their droped pitarm and super runner steering package. Are you saying SuperLift's package is incorrect and needs a Skyjacker part?

 

[4x4junkie]

Yes.

Take a read through this page. It's rather amazing how widespread the problem is, and the seeming lack of any desire by the industry to correct it. Hopefully this can help keep you from falling victim to it as well (for one thing, your tires will certainly thank you).

If you have the Superrunner steering kit, you won't need the SJ arm, but you will have to modify the centerlink on it (again, the reason is detailed in that link).

Also, see this post (how to modify it):
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269989

 

[4X50 Exploder]

Hey Junkie, Is that your rig that you did the centerlink mod to? I am kind of wondering if it shouldn't have some kind of added gaussett once it's got an extra three inches in there. Have you run it a good bit after the mod? Did you have the bump steer issue with the SupperLift steering and their drop arm? Did it totally solve the issue after your mod?

Has anyone contacted the SupperLift guys to see if they would correct their design?

Thanks for the GREAT input! Gotta say it really burns my rear to spend the money for their solution and have to mod it still...

 

[4x4junkie]

Has anyone contacted the SupperLift guys to see if they would correct their design?

I certainly have, yes (twice). All I could get from them was insistence that there was absolutely nothing wrong with their design and that I must have a "wrong" pitman arm on it or something (dummy, the kit wouldn't FIT if I had the wrong arm, the centerlink would be all crooked!)
I'm thinking I might try again though, it's been a few years since the last time.

I've done this mod on mine, as well as for a friend (there are others who have done it too, CopyKat here comes to mind, I know there are more). That metal extension on the centerlink is a solid ¾" thick, no extra reinforcement is needed on that part.
The idlerarm and it's mounting bracket is where I would recommend some reinforcements however (I think I had a pic in there of that too). It appears that it would not take a whole lot of force to bend the part of the bracket the arm bolts into. Also, the arm itself I put some gussets on.

I've run my modified kit through trails like Rubicon, Dusy/Ershim, and many others (take a look through the wheeling pics on my Bronco II Cardomain page). One thing you may want to watch for though is the upper idler bushings getting loose. If you're good at fabricating/modifying things, putting a longer upper tube on the idler arm could help spread the load apart better on the arm's bushings, making the whole thing much more rigid.

 

[4X50 Exploder]

Shifting directions...

Thanks again for the input!

Shifting directions... It's getting so close to next quarter’s funds being available, that I am thinking about re-gearing while it's torn apart.

I have been cruising the posts on gear ratios. Seems like it's a matter of personal preference but most wish they had gone with the next ratio... I'm shooting for 33" tires but if they look too puny under this when done I will go as tall as 35". My percentage of time on the highway would be small, about 10-15%. Is a ratio in the high fours a good performer? Is the uncertainty of 33 vs 35 significant enough to wait for the gearing choice?

What's your opinion on lockers? I will be mostly winter road driving this rig with moderate offroading. No major trail runs with this one! Are lockers even a good idea for snow and ice conditions? If you could only do one at a time, would you go with a front or rear locker first and what type?

If you have a recommendation for some part suppliers for this stuff, I would greatly appreciate it! Just getting the parts I have so far, I ended up with a list of places to avoid in the future. It would be nice to start with suppliers that others have used and would use again...

Hope I'm not being a total PITA. I am trying to get this done without wasting time and $$$ on mistakes! I really am thankful for feedback like yours; helping me with things I never ventured to try before!

 

[4X50 Exploder]

I certainly have, yes (twice). All I could get from them was insistence that there was absolutely nothing wrong with their design and that I must have a "wrong" pitman arm on it or something (dummy, the kit wouldn't FIT if I had the wrong arm, the centerlink would be all crooked! Too dumb to realize this)
I'm thinking I might try again though, it's been a few years since the last time...

I'm going to call in and see where I get by asking them about the issue and all the bad press they get like this... I am going to try to take it up the food chain if needed. May get nowhere but who knows...

It would be nice if everyone that's got this kit hit them up! The sales rep that I bought some of my parts from, flat out said that SL dosen't care about the distributers so I doubt my call will get anywhere alone...

 

[4x4junkie]

Well, good luck... What I would probably do is wait until you actually get it installed, that way if they should ask how it is you know this, you can tell them you're looking right at it (rather than "oh some guy on an internet forum told me").


As for gears, the difference between 33-35" tires is enough I'd probably hold off on buying them until you know what size tires you want to run.

4.56 is best for 33" tires, 4.88 for 35s (although if it's not going to spend much time on the freeways, then I'd go another step deeper (4.88 for 33s, 5.13 for 35s).

Anyway, good luck with it. Sounds like a very interesting project for sure with the F-1 body.

 

[4X50 Exploder]

Thanks again!

Despite my anxiety about gearing up now, I will heed your seasoned advice and wait...

Did you have any thoughts you will share on my questions about lockers?

 

[4x4junkie]

Oh whoops! Guess somehow I forgot that part lol

I would say hands-down the ARB selectable lockers are the most versatile for all conditions. You can go from an open diff to solidly locked and back to open again as conditions require, just at the push of a button. They can be a bit spendy though after you include the cost of the compressor needed to run them (although the compressor has other uses too, such as airing up your tires).

Automatic operation lockers have to be driven with some care in slick conditions, but certainly they can be of benefit as well.
The Detroit Locker is the most robust (and if you potentially plan to be wheeling this thing on 35" tires, would be the only one (besides the ARB) I'd put in it. Cheaper alternatives such as the Lockright reuse the stock diff carrier, which isn't a known strong point on the 8.8" (the D35 is generally OK with them though).


If it won't be on anything more than graded dirt roads (possibly with some mud), a simple limited slip like the Detroit TrueTrac might fit the bill. They also won't have most of the handling quirks of automatic lockers. To me "moderate offroading" means you'll still be in occasional situations where a tire might lift off the ground though, in which case a limited slip is going to leave you stuck there spinning that tire. You'll kindof have to prioritize how important the performance offroad needs to be if you want to use limited slip diffs.

Oh, and a locker out back will be more effective than one up front. If you're only going to do one end, do the rear.

Alright, hope than covers it.

 

[4X50 Exploder]

Sorry for the delay, I was away for the weekend.

Here's what will be needed with the Superlift steering:

If you look closely at pic#2 I posted, notice that the center block that the tierods are mounted onto has been lowered down some, this is what's going to be needed on yours. You'll need a grinder, a good 220V welder (and of course know how to use it), and a piece of ¾" thick steel approx 2-3" wide.

Grind out the welds holding the tierod mounting block to the centerlink.
Weld your ¾" strip of metal to the tierod block so that it will be spaced downward.
Weld this assembly back onto your centerlink, paying close attention to the angle it's at so that it will drop straight down when it's mounted on your truck.

Here's a pic I took while doing this mod myself:

It wouldn't be a bad idea to beef up your idler arm assembly and bracket as well, as the above mod does increase the leverage on it to some extent.

See here:

If you don't have a 220V welder, then you may want to see if you can find a shop in your area to do this for you. I'm thinking it shouldn't take more than a hour or so labor at the most (it took me about 1½ hours when I did this at home in my garage).

Take a look at this link.
This should explain in good detail why the heck all this is necessary, as for some reason it seems the lift industry doesn't have it all together when it comes to steering these things. :thumbdwn:


For the 4" Rough Country, the Skyjacker drop pitman arm #FA600 will work perfectly with that kit. This arm's true amount of drop is 4" (this is in spite of claims that the arm is intended for a 6-8" lift). Any other arm, regardless of claims, will only drop down 2" making for an incomplete steering correction (again, see the above link).


Hopefully that helps.

??-When you added that strip to the tie rod mounting block, how much of an additional drop did you find worked best-?? Do you mind if I follow your lead (Copy) with this modification?

 

[4x4junkie]

I answered your PM.

For the others reading, however much is needed to have your tierods be in proper alignment with your axle beam pivots (for a 5.5" lift, it would need to come down 3.5").
Unfortunately the design of Superlift's idler arm limits you to about 2" before the leverage becomes too great on the upper bushings. Lengthening the upper tube an inch or two would easily help combat the added leverage however.

If you run the stiff TTB lift coils (not early Bronco or Jeep coils), the 1.5" disparity left by dropping it 2" isn't much of an issue (and is still much better than leaving it at a 3.5" disparity). Long-travel EB coils will require a full correction however (that, or dropping the lift down to 4").