*rant* SVT website and TROLL

[james t]

well he has been proven wrong. like i said, expo5.0 runs like he is on a little shot of nitrous, and his only real mod is a e303. all he has besides the basic intake/exhaust is a generic hypertech programmer. there is no need for a custom programmed chip, even though it would proly run even better with custom chip burned. yes, you will loose a little low end, but not enough to even notice. he can talk all he wants, but its been proven so i think he needs to stick to mustang tuning.

he is also kina correct with the tq thing, but the e303 is jsut not that big. you need to start looking at upgrading tq if you have a big cam, not a little e303. maybe expo will read this and post his track times. it is not all or nothing, as you CAN do just the cam and get good results. proven, proven, proven.

 

[DarkFox1]

well, I dunno if the E-303 is what rocket was going to use, just wanted to give a heads up on what I heard.

I got this info from "All Mustang" in pheonix arizona. obviosuly they have more experience with the 'stang and its ODBI 5.0s than with our ODBII 5.0s..

just tryin to help out where I can, glad they're wrong.

btw, rocket from your list I didn't see anything about rockers or heads? do you plan on doing these? I've heard the AFR 165CC heads are quite nice, a complete kit seems to be about $1600 tho

also, I was suggested to upgrade my cast 1.6 rockers to cobra 1.7 roller rockers, would this benefit at all? and do we reallyt have 1.6?

 

[SaleenEXP]

Darkfox - we've talked about stuff like this in other threads, and how you heard whatever from an "Expert" then we end up proving you wrong . You've talked about what the "Experts" have said to do before or what they know, they are wrong, their morons from what you've said and shouldn't even be working on cars.

They have even told you some stupid things about your truck that you've posted before. I dunna know....you just got weird people working up there. I especially love how they tell you 12 seconds to 60 is normal for a 5.0 Explorer

You don't need a chip burned, as expo5.0 runs a hypertec like james said with only an exhaust and intake and some other minor stuff. The cam wouldn't cause the engine to surge, and I don't think the stock converter stalls at 1200 b/c ours will easily hold a 1500rpm stall launch.

Also, Darkfox, the 1.7 roller rockers would work well with the cam.

James t - I think expo5.0 ran about a 14.9 at around 92mph. Awsome times considering he has only a few mods.

 

[DarkFox1]

well I meant a stock cam.

this gyu is not from my area. this guys all the way across the country.

and I'm talking stock computer programming with the E-303, no programmer or anything. the kkm and catback dont count.

I dunno, I know *I* certainly shouldn't be working on cars heh, but I'm very interested to see what rockets gonna get out of his, 450 is quite a number for an X.. I'd love to see how he goes about acheiving it.. I can't do anything insane like pulling my engine and stroking it to 347, thats just ridiculous.. for a daily driver.

 

[SaleenEXP]

You can run a cam without any chip or programing. My friend had new cams in his Cobra from Sean Hyland Motorsports without any other mods except an exhaust and x-pipe for a few weeks before he got everything else. It ran awsome and gained a lot of extra power. You would still get basically the same amount of gains (hp and tq) whether you use a chip or not, you would just have more control over the shift points using like the hypertec or burned chip.

Look at Bill's truck (Troll), way more hp than that, and it's his daily driver.

X-box lives in my city with the 347 kit and some other stuff and is going to be adding a charger and he drives it daily.

off topic - if you think a 347 is extreme, imagine my moms friend who has that Ruf Porcshe Turbo putting out 700rwhp and about 700rwtq, and thats his daily driver for the last two years.

 

[rocket 5979]

Originally posted by DarkFox1
well, I dunno if the E-303 is what rocket was going to use, just wanted to give a heads up on what I heard.

btw, rocket from your list I didn't see anything about rockers or heads? do you plan on doing these? I've heard the AFR 165CC heads are quite nice, a complete kit seems to be about $1600 tho

Well i am planning on using the E-303 cam in my stock block, till i get the 347 in a little while then i will get an aggressive crane or wolverine cam for it. as for the heads and rockers all of that stuff is going to be coming along with the 347 later on. for now it is just breathing mods, s/c, NO2 and a few other things. the heads the 5.0's have right now are fine for what i want to do for now, but i will definately be upgrading to canfield's w/1.6 roller rockers when i get ready to put the 347 in. of course that means i have to re-install all of my mods i will have dont already, but hey what other way to have fun than to work on my car. ok i can think of a few but they dont have an X rating for this forum. lol.

 

[rocket 5979]

Another thing to mention. i wouldnever listen to anything a mustang guy has to say. maybe something general about engines and horsepower, but not about the 302 engines for our X's simply because they dont realize the differences between their cars and our explorers which though we have the same engine block that is about it. different torque ranges, rpm ranges, alot of things that are different. that is why i have not even bothered to go to any shops or anything because i would be willing to bet they wont know what they are talking about when it comes to explorers. that is why if i have any questions i ask the experts, and who else is better an expert about something than the owners that have been doing these mods for a while now and have doen it to explorers too and realize the gains that can be made with certain parts versus gains made by the same parts in the mustang. i trust some of the people here than my buddy which is an expert mechanic because his filed is very broad. where as some peoples here is not so braod so they really know what the heck they are talking about because it is the only thing they bothered to research and learn about because that is what they have. that guy may have been an expert mechanic but certainly not an expert ford explorer mechanic, like i would label a few people on this site as.

 

[DarkFox1]

I could not validate, in any possible way, short of my engine block cracking somehow.. of pulling the engine and replacing it on a daily driver. Thats like.. a body swap or something, you just dont do that to a truck whos sole purpose is home to wherever and back again and nothing more. at least, not to me.

I'd love to do some work on my truck, I figure if I spend about $5,500 I can MAYBE get my truck moving more along the lines that I want out of it, but thats not the kind of money I have to "waste"

I dont want to sound rude, but I trust what a paid employee of a performance facitliy more than the home mechanic. Given they may have tried the products, but that doesn't rule out expectations and over assumptions based on how much money they spent. I dont want an opinion about a product really, I want a fact, dyno proven long term tested fact. I know those are hard to come by since hardly anyone besides the avg guy has bothered doing anything to an suv since the rest of the world considers them inferior to their muscle cars and their imports, but for every 1 person that says product A will gain **HP I har 2 or 3 that say it will hurt power, do nothing, or need more upgrades to prevent engine damage. when I get multiple responses from individuals that seem qualified to give such, I dont know what to think. I've just about concluded that the ford engines, if not because of the ODBII system alone, have little to no hope in gaining power.

Just last night I talked to a guy whod been working on fords for years, and he told me that upgrading from my cast 1.6s to cobra 1.7s would make no difference at all, along with the all mustangs guy saying that a cam would take off time.. my kkm didn't do anything, my catback didn't do anything, I'm not about to throw some more money around and take a wild guess that these people may be wrong and buy it anyway. and just because 1 engine saw a performance gain with a certain product, doesn't mean all will.

Heres the information I've gathered on mods, since a 347 is a stroker I'd assume these parts would be the same for your 302.

and I know a few people would disagree, but from reading the forum, and talking to ford performance guys...

headers: do nothing alone, need other mods to be worth it, probablly the best idea for an engine with a lot of mods
cam: "slows you down" w/o a torque converter upgrade, maybe some higher #s, but lower response time
intake: what intake? X has its own magical TB that no one makes an upgrade for. 66mm as I was told is "plenty" however
cats: nothing.. already have high flow cats
catback: my catback did nothing, some people claim theres do but I still find it hard to beleive
chips: well they change your shift points, a definate good idea, but I dont really think they do much for your truck in reality, the changes you feel are probablly from jumping from 87-93 octane. still a good idea for upgraded engines however.

This is all the cheap stuff, things like heads and all I dont deal with cos they cost way too much, but by reading around, this is all I've seen.. a lot of gimmicks, a few bad ideas, a few good ones... maybe my research is tainted with opinions and assumptions, but I can't seem to find anything else. and someone just telling me they're wrong is more of such material. I've been told numerous times my research is wrong, but it continues to pop up everywhere.

 

[SaleenEXP]

bro, you still have a fugged up engine. How can you explain the 4 or more second difference in times in acceleration from your truck? Theres no possible way (except in your case) that a 5.0 Explorer stock for stock is slower than an ohv Explorer like our 94'.

Remember when I posted what that kids Explorer dynoed at, and your numbers were way, way off. One of your runs I think showed around 120hp or something.

Catback and intake do help, remeber I ran a 16.2 at the track and my friend ran about a 15.8 on his 5.0 Explorer with a dual catback and intake. Neighbors 02' 4.6 Explorer ran a 15.7 at 87-88mph. And it's not driver error or anything you were saying b/c you floor it and go, thats it, you don't have to worry about launching like in a manual. I've seen a few Explorers run at the track and their all as fast or quicker than ours, except for Troll who would annihilate me.

As for the mods you listed, expo5.0 has a cam, exhaust, intake and a hypertec and ran a 14.9 and 92mph and it's stronger at any rpm esecially down low or else he wouldn't have ran that time as our trucks neeed a lot of low end to run that fast.

It's really just your engine, cpu or something, b/c Ford engines are basically the best engines for responding to mods whether it be 5.0's or 4.6 engines ect. My friends have dynoed their Explorer, Mustangs ect. and all showed a lot of gains in power on the dyno, especially the 03' Cobra.

And if somebody told you to use the stock 1.6 rockers with an aftermarket cam, they need to get kicked in the ass, you wouldn't get the full benefit of the cam unless you had the 1.7 Cobra's, you would probably end up screrwing something up, there are plenty of guys on here who have the 1.7 roller rockers.

Like Rocket said, I wouldn't trust any of those guys, they all tell you fugged up info, come down to where I live and theirs a crap load of performance shops who will go out of their way to mod an Explorer or Mustang ect.

 

[james t]

Originally posted by SaleenEXP
And if somebody told you to use the stock 1.6 rockers with an aftermarket cam, they need to get kicked in the ass, you wouldn't get the full benefit of the cam unless you had the 1.7 Cobra's, you would probably end up screrwing something up, there are plenty of guys on here who have the 1.7 roller rockers.

actually, you go with what the cam calls for. there are alot of big cams out there that call for 1.6's. all 1.7's do is shift the power up in the rpm band, they really dont make alot of extra power.

as far as putting 1.7's on a stock cam, i just think it would be a waste. sure, you'll get a LITTLE extra power, but it will be even further up the rpm scale, and thats counter-productive of getting a 4100-4400 lb. truck moving.

ever hear that ole' saying "you cant polish a turd"? get rid of the junk stock cam first.

 

[DarkFox1]

my lowest dyno run was 143.7hp at about 3500 rpm.

my best run was 170.2 at about 4000 rpm.


hey rocket have you done any baseline runs? I'd REALLY like to see your dyno sheets if you have/plan to.

the befores and afters.

well guys, like I said, this is just the reasearch I've found, the 5.0 I test drove the 99 did feel different, but not enough to really say that theres something signifigant wrong with mine. I didn't have a good strong chance to give it runs and keep it a few days, but.. from that 1 little drive.. it wasn't anything to brag about. I talk to performance guys all day long.. they all seem to contradict each other... I go with the majarity of what I hear.. how can there be so much opinion in this?

 

[blk mk8]

man you guys talk a lot with out getting any thing done. LOL you guys need to take every thing in to consideration otherwise you cam will be off oh and cam specs are not every thing.

 

[SaleenEXP]

heh, your right james t, I should have re-worded that, I think I exagerated a bit and was just venting at the people who give Darkfox his info Theres just no way in hell it's "normal" for an Explorer 5.0 to be running 10 or 12 or more seconds to 60.

I would still go with 1.7 Cobra roller rockers, if I were to do FMS headers, dual catback, intake, and a hypertec programmer, e-303 cam or that one other cam you were talking about (b-303? or something like that) and stay NA like that. You'd still have good lowend and the higher power band of the roller rockers would let you trap a few mph faster. But I don't think you'd want to put all that money into your truck, right Darkfox? Might get you a little closer to expo5.0's time, or my time at least

 

[DarkFox1]

I dont want to break $1000.. and I still want to see results.

I can worry about doing the big stuff later.. STILL trying to get a job.. this town SUCKS!

hey blk mk8, did yall do a baseline dyno run on the troll before you did anything to it? I mean its PAINFULLY obvious that you saw gains, but.. did you get a view of where you were coming from? all I ever see are 4.0L dyno sheets.. want something to compare to thats not missing 2 cylinders (j/k 4.0 guys)

anyone need any graphics? a website? lol, a computer built? speaking of jobs.. thats prtty mch the stuff I do free-lance while I'm waiting, its not paying much tho.

 

[blk mk8]

yes we did a base line of stock and with FMS headers, gears, cam, exhaust, rockers and so on. it did not put out much. to make really good power you need really nice headers other wise you are all doomed that will be the bigest limiting factor. ya stock it made 181 and with flowmasters it make 650. LOL

 

[DarkFox1]

181.. and that truck had the gt-40s too didnt it? was it a d4 stock axle?