REALLY NEED help with 4lo

[JoshC]

Alright, i've asked once but i can't get any help. My 4lo isn't working after i switched from an auto to manual transmission. I bought the clutch starter switch, and the computer for a 5 speed. I went to ford today to try and figure out what other parts might be different. The transmission guy said that the GEM (JIM) module might be different so i checked on that and they are the same. Okay, now what, so i kept bugging the parts guys and we went through the computer and he printed off a thing that was the electronic components for my truck and there was a relay behind the stereo that was the called the "trans sec acc relay." So i go home rip my dash apart and that relay is already there. I can't think of any other parts that are different, and i can't think of any wiring harness that are different. The only one that could be different is the one for the transfer case but we couldn't find a picture of that. Does any one know for sure that the wiring is different from auto to manual or of any other parts that might be different. I smoked the crap out of my clutch last night because i didn't have 4lo. I've got a couple of runs coming up within the month and i have got to have 4lo. Any help at all would be really really appriciated!! Thanks.

Happy trailes!

 

[carman99]

Damn, nothing sucks more than electrical problems.

I've been thinking about making the same switch (what transmission did you use?), and am pretty sure I'm going to go with a lever instead of the stock electrical switch.

I've looked over my '98, and if I remember correctly, it seems that you should be able to cut a hole in the floor and attach a shift lever to your existing transfer case. The switch on the dash operates an actuator that moves a lever and shifts the transfer case. You'd be removing this actuator assembly and replacing it with a lever, and doing the operating yourself. There will probably be some minor kinks to iron out, but in the end you'll have a more reliable low-tech solution to your problem.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[JoshC]

Are you serious? Is that really possible? Man if that's so then i'll be doing that this weekend. Anyone else heard of doing this? Wonder how that would work with the auto system and my computer and stuff? Gosh, that would be great. As far as the transmission, i have no idea what it is. It's just a ford rebuild that i had a guy do for me. He worked for ford for 35 years and now that's how he makes his money. He's good too. So i had him build me one and i did about 95%of the rest myself. Let me know some more info on turning the electric to manual, or if you know where to find so reading about it. Thanks!

Happy trailes!
ps welcome to the boards!!

 

[yob_yeknom]

Before you go to cutting stuff up, you do have auto 4wd don't you? How do you think the computer is going to react to that?
Just guessing, but I think it's not such a good idea.

How do you know these different electrical parts are the same from an auto to a 5-speed? Are you comparing part numbers for the two vehicles? Are you sure the relay behind the stereo is the same for both?

I'll try to look at a wiring diagram later on and see if I can come up with any ideas.

 

[JoshC]

Hey John, thanks for your help. Yeah, i'm not cutting anything up. We are comparing part numbers at ford trying to rule things out. It just sounded nice to be able to switch it over like that, but it also sounds to easy almost!! Where are finding that diagram? I'd like to take a look at one too but i don't know where to find one? Isn't there one in the back of the Haynes manual? I'll check here in a while. Let me know what you find out, thanks!!

Happy trailes!

 

[yob_yeknom]

Well I figured there'd be a diagram in the back of my Haynes manual. Wrong. What a gyp.

Try the dealership for a wiring diagram of the entire 4wd system. The parts department can probably help you out.
If the parts department can't help, they have CD's in their repair departments that have all kinds of info on them. Maybe they could print something out for you.

If you can't find anything, let me know. I'll try my dealership. I've got the hook up there.

 

[carman99]

John's right, you should definitely check and to make sure there won't be any computer problems. Maybe your local dealer can help you out. (Nice how they left out that wiring diagram. I still can't figure that one out.)

I can't imagine too much of a problem though. Since the Transfer Case is a part time element of the drive train, it shouldn't have too much input into the regular operation of the engine and transmission.

The '97 model year didn't come with the auto 4X4 (I think?), so there should be less wiring to deal with. Keep in mind, your choosing when it goes into 4X4. But right now your just flipping a switch on the dash. If you install a lever, you might still be able to leave all the sensors (If there are any) hooked up.

This is my first Explorer, but I've had plenty of 4X4's. I've never seen a transfer case that was too integrated to modify.

-Casey

 

[BExplorer]

Help!?

The t-case is shifted with a rotary motor, with a contact plate to detect position. You could flip a switch with +/- 12 volt on the motor to rotate it, but would have no clue as to the position of the shifter (the reson for the computer and contact plate), so I would stick with dash button or swap for a real manual t-case.

For your original question,I dont know if this will help, cause I have a 94. If I understand correctly you can have 2wd, 4wd hi(and auto?) but no 4wd lo. What could be the answer to your probleme is the clutch switch, the one that prevents your engine from starting when clutch is not depressed (you did wire that switch into your conversion?). So for my 94 (with original MTX) you must first be in 4wd HI, be at a stop and depress the clutch in order to go into 4wd LO. So maybe the controler is the same on both ATX and MTX but that signal is bypassed in the ATX and on MTX you must wire it. And YES get the wiring diagram in order to find this signal, witch I dont know where to look for. Hope this will help.

 

[Ray Lobato]

Well guys, It's not that easy. Just getting rid of the shifter motor is not going to make your T-case run like you want it to. If you take the shift motor off, you will see that there is actually 3 positions on the T-case. lo neutral and hi, but there are viscus clutches in the T-case that actually engage the front drive. All this is part of the control track. There are sensors that tell these clutches when to engage and when not to. It's these sensors that you need to figure out before you start cutting things up.

Jot017,
Getting back to your original question. You can hear the shift motor going from one position to another. Get someone to help you out and with someon in the truck, have them put it into 4hi then into 4lo, making sure that they have their foot on the brake and shift lever in neutral. listen for the shift motor to run, if you can't hear it, then your shift motor is either bad or needs to be cleaned up. Hope this helps.

 

[yob_yeknom]

I'm really leaning towards NOT trying to switch to a manual t-case, or rigging yours to be one. I'm pretty sure the electronics of the Contol Trac system will need everything to stay electronic to function properly.

Here's a good point that hasn't been brought up:
Are you sure it would go into 4lo when you had the automatic? When's the last time you had it in 4lo?

 

[TPLYNCH]

Just a shot in the dark.... The GEM may need to be reprogrammed to recognize you have a Manual instead of the auto.

 

[ok89]

well my Chilton Manual has 21 pages of wiring diagrams. What do you need. I would be happy to scan them and post them.

Well its either a body wiring diagram or an engine wiring diagram.
I just need your engine type, year, and if its a cali one.

 

[JoshC]

wow, thanks for the help fellas!!

John, i'm sure the 4lo worked because that's just about all i used. When it was an automatic it was such a turd that i hated to use 4hi. So know that's not the problem. I was getting ready to look in my haynes till you said there weren't any diagrams, i thought there were though!?

TPLYNCH, i checked the gem module out and they are both the same for an auto and a manual!

ok89, i might have you print something off for me. I'm going to call the dealership and see what they can do. My buddy is a service advisor over there and he said they can put it on the computer and find out what it's not doing and he'd just charge me $29, i think i might try that first.

Ray, i just threw that idea up in the air about switching from electronic to manual, if i tried that i'd never get it to work! I was never able to hear it shift into 4lo before, but i'll give it a try. What is involved in cleaning that motor? I might try that too, even if it doesn't work, it could probably stand to be cleaned!

BExplorer, I know the steps to engaging 4lo, it's just that it doesn't want to. Like it's not seeing neutral with all the stuff on there!

carman99, the 97 was the first year for the auto.

Thanks for all the help so far, we're on the right road, just not there quite yet!

Happy trailes!

 

[BExplorer]

Signal

That's what I'm saying, it seem to not see the signal from the clutch depressed and stick on neutral.

For the motor cleaning thing go onto Dr. Bob page Dead Link Removed under the t-case subjet it has quite good explanation. Another thing, maybe the contact plate insie the motor assembly has poped loose and not detecting the good signals, mine had that problem, I poped open the control disc assy and glued it back to a fine working.

 

[JoshC]

Thanks for the link, that could prove to be useful!

I called and scheduled that computer thing at ford for thursday at 8am, so hopefully that will tell me something, i'll reply to this once i find out the outcome of that test, thanks again everyone!

Happy trailes!

 

[JoshC]

it works!!! I took it over to ford this morning and they found the problem, took them 3 hours but they found the problem. They had my truck torn apart. The computer they use to test stuff with was showing the clutch switch and all that good stuff as working fine. They had the manual out that has all the diagrams and there is a red and white wire coming out of the wiring harness from the GEM (behind the stereo on the left) and it is shown in the diagram as being open from a ground when the automatic transmission is in gear and when you select it to neutral it grounds itself, well that same wire for a manual transmission has to be grounded all the time, so we just ran a ground to it and it works fine now!!! It ended up costing my $95, but my buddy knocked the labor from 2 hours to 1.5 hours, so that saved me some money! I just can't believe it was something that simple, but that's the way it always ends up!! Thanks for all the help guys. I hope this helps someone else out in the future!!

So to get your 4 lo to work you have to replace your computer (processor), clutch starter switch on the petal, make sure your brake light switch works, and ground that wire!

Happy trailes!

 

[Robert]

Congratulations. You got off easy by having a friend at Ford that was willing to help you. I can see most of us going in to Ford with a request like that and either getting laughed at or end up leaving broke with an Explorer that probably wan't working right still.

 

[TPLYNCH]

Originally posted by TPLYNCH
Just a shot in the dark.... The GEM may need to be reprogrammed to recognize you have a Manual instead of the auto.

Hey, I was close, wasn't I???!!!! Glad you got it resolved.

 

[JoshC]

Yeah you sure were. I knew the GEM was the same, i'm just glad i didn't have to buy any parts because it would have been on top of the shop cost!! Low works great, i tired it out last night on a little rocky hill with some mud, between low and the locker, i'm pretty satisfied!

Happy trailes!