Relay reference.

[HotWheelsAS]

Hello All,

Lots of times my van runs okay, sometimes not so much now. Recently it has started cutting out and die-ing. It starts fine, but after driving around the CEL will glow on and off, irregularly, and the engine will be rough, almost like its choking? I don't know if it's a fuel issue or not. Sometimes it smoothes out a bit then reverts back to rough. At it's worst, I start to hear clicking, crackling under the hood. Sounds like it's coming from the relay box by the fender. Then it dies.

Distributor cap and rotor was recently replaced, as was coil. Could the relays be going bad? I thought replacing them might help. BUT I can't find their equivalent replacements. Fuel relay is green and has fuel written on it (#f19b-9345 a1a-2169-?) Brown one says ECM (#e3af-12a646 ba//2169-1). Will any generic relay what the same four prongs fit? Any help would be super appreciated. Thanks, Chris.

 

[HotWheelsAS]

Also.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Find out what the code numbers are before you replace anymore parts. Don't disconnect the battery since this will erase the codes.

 

[HotWheelsAS]

Are the codes saved if the check engine light doesn't stay on? /How do I check the codes. I know the vehicle is older and you can't just plug a code reader into it.

 

[BrooklynBay]

There are code readers which show a trouble code as well as scanners but you don't need one for EEC-IV equipped vehicles. Take a look at this thread: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255962

 

[Josh P]

I'm using the same relay for both. 413157 is the part number.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Use an Ohmmeter to check the resistance of the coil. If the coil check out ok then connect a continuity tester to the contacts, and apply 12 volts to the coil to see if the contacts are working.

 

[HotWheelsAS]

Okay, I'm back. I haven't been able to do anything for the past three or four days because it's been raining non stop here, but here's how things went today.

I got relays because they were cheap and I got impatient after three days; put them in today. Drove around town for appx. 26-30 minutes, car seemed okay. Felt like it idled a bit high, but generally ran okay. Then the cel started to glow again. It got worse, relays started clicking. There are two more behind the fuel and ecm relays; they may be the ones where the noise is coming from, unsure.

The light was just one so I knew there should be codes. (Batt. had previously been disconnected). This was the first time I tried the code check, but, best as I can tell. I got 1-1-1 for the first set of codes, so all ok? Then the second set was 2-1-2, so
"(M) Ignition TACH signal was erratic (module/wiring) or SPOUT circuit fault - Ignition Systems"
Or
"(M) Ignition TACH signal was erratic (module/wiring) or SPOUT circuit fault"

So what exactly controls my tach signal? And why would the problem often take like 20 minutes of driving to show itself? Thanks again. Feels like progress.

 

[HotWheelsAS]

The light was just *on so I knew there should be codes.

And what is SPOUT?

 

[Josh P]

Spout stands for spark out. It is a grey colored jumper that when unplugged allows you to adjust the base timing without the ecm involved. If it runs good when cold and like crap when warm it is a common symptom of a failing tfi module, but there are tests you can do before throwing money at it.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Clean the contacts on the module.

 

[HotWheelsAS]

This is what I'm looking for, right? The contacts in the module don't look all that bad and I don't think the module itself is all that old. It looks like a replacement piece.

There was also white, chalky-ish stuff on the metal bracket (heat sink?) the module was in. Would more of that stuff help dissipate the heat and make any difference, or do you think I probably just have a bad part?

 

[HotWheelsAS]

Photo 2

 

[Josh P]

Chris, That is the Ignition control module. I've never owned a 3.0L van so the other guys will have to help. You need to verify that is the correct module for your vehicle. I don't know if it is ccd or push start. Also if it is push start your coil needs to have a 22k ohm resistor on it. I have read about one guy having this problem and it turned out to be the drive gear on the distributor was worn. If it doesn't give up the ghost you could convert it to edis.

 

[BrooklynBay]

The second photo is an external heat sink with the ignition module inside. This part is bolted to the inner passenger's side fender wall. The older models had the module bolted directly to the distributor. You should always use heat sink grease.

 

[HotWheelsAS]

Okay, before I started messing with it, I had dropped it off to a garage while I was at work, they ended up replacing the distributor cap/rotor and coil. Said it was worn out. It seemed to make sense then that the tfi module could be out also if it's affected by the distributor.

I replaced the module with one from Oreillys, and it worked great for like a week. Today though, same sort of problem happened again and I don't think it's a bad module. So what else does that leave, is there a short somewhere? I was wondering what may be the next most likely cause and how I might go about checking it. Thank you again!

I'm sorry, I don't know what cd or push start is, or the difference between the two. And converting to edis?

 

[BrooklynBay]

Do you know which brand you used for the ignition module? Maybe they gave you a defective module. Did you check the pins with an Ohmmeter?

 

[HotWheelsAS]

Yes, the brand was BWD, part # CBE40. I didn't check it with an Ohmmeter. I don't have one. Yet. If I got one what would a successful test be?

It's possible the part is defective. I checked my records though, the ICM was replaced when I got the van early this year. What are the chances I got two bad modules in a year?

 

[BrooklynBay]

The part probably has a warranty so try to get another one.

 

[HotWheelsAS]

Okay, another stupid question. I have a new ICM (had a warranty), installed it, but noticed one of the two screws mounting the module to the heatsink is loose. Real loose. As in the heatsink threads are kind of stripped, so it's mostly down to one screw holding it in. It's snug-ish, but only one screw. Before I go driving around and fry ICM #2 , are they so finicky that it being slightly loose will cause it to go bad?

If so, I'll wait and fix the heatsink first.

Thanks again.