Resurrecting the PATS Key Copying Debate

[fastpakr]

Why do you insist on talking down to people trying to explain the system to you?
What you quoted from mbrooks made sense. If you're unclear on a particular point, ask a specific question.
As to the vendor info, that is specific to having two existing keys.

Not at all sure what you mean. Do you know?

BTW, it seems that iproproducts is saying that all you have to do is buy a key from them -

https://www.ebay.com/gds/Programming-A-New-Car-Key-/10000000178245604/g.html

They say:

Simply have the key cut at your local automotive locksmith, then follow our simple do-it-yourself instructions in less than a few minutes to have a fully functioning spare key! One of these keys at the dealer will cost you over $100. Buy from us and save $$$

So they are pretty clearly saying that if you "follow our simple do-it-yourself instructions" you'll end up with what amounts to a key from the dealer (and thus a programed key).

Does anyone have any experience with these folks?

said

 

[lincolnshibuya]

I know my local walmart can clone a key, cloning and programming a new key is totally different. If you just want a duplicate key then a cloned key ($65) will work. A programmed key has a unique signature from the other keys programmed to the same car.

 

[Jobert]

I know my local walmart can clone a key, cloning and programming a new key is totally different. If you just want a duplicate key then a cloned key ($65) will work. A programmed key has a unique signature from the other keys programmed to the same car.

Now, THAT is clear and understandable. What these other guys are talking about is neither clear nor understandable.

I understand about programmable keys and cloned keys. You need 2 programmable keys to program another key and clone keys cannot be used to program other keys unless (according to some here) you clone 2 different programmable keys.

Not sure if that would work and I doubt if anyone has tried it.

I have only 1 key to my Explorer and I forget what the local dealer would charge me for another key. I want to say that it was $60 and that may be true. If so, that seems like a reasonable enough price to me now tho' it didn't when I first inquired about it a couple of years ago.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Not at all sure what you mean. Do you know?

BTW, it seems that iproproducts is saying that all you have to do is buy a key from them -

https://www.ebay.com/gds/Programming-A-New-Car-Key-/10000000178245604/g.html

They say:

Simply have the key cut at your local automotive locksmith, then follow our simple do-it-yourself instructions in less than a few minutes to have a fully functioning spare key! One of these keys at the dealer will cost you over $100. Buy from us and save $$$

So they are pretty clearly saying that if you "follow our simple do-it-yourself instructions" you'll end up with what amounts to a key from the dealer (and thus a programed key).

Does anyone have any experience with these folks?

Do I know what I mean? Of course. Do I know for a fact you need a 'program a' and a 'program b' key to make a 'program c' key? Absolutely.

 

[Jobert]

Why do you insist on talking down to people trying to explain the system to you?
What you quoted from mbrooks made sense. If you're unclear on a particular point, ask a specific question.
As to the vendor info, that is specific to having two existing keys.


said

Okay, I'll ask a specific question. How did you get from the link I posted to the "vendor info" that it's specific to having two existing keys?

 

[Mbrooks420]

Now, THAT is clear and understandable. What these other guys are talking about is neither clear nor understandable.

I understand about programmable keys and cloned keys. You need 2 programmable keys to program another key and clone keys cannot be used to program other keys unless (according to some here) you clone 2 different programmable keys.

Not sure if that would work and I doubt if anyone has tried it.

I have only 1 key to my Explorer and I forget what the local dealer would charge me for another key. I want to say that it was $60 and that may be true. If so, that seems like a reasonable enough price to me now tho' it didn't when I first inquired about it a couple of years ago.

I think you are the only one who isn't following.

 

[fastpakr]

Because that's how the PATS system works whether you choose to accept it or not. You posted a generic explanation from a vendor on eBay that wasn't specific to Ford, much less any particular generation of PATS.

Simply put, PATS requires two distinct keys that are already in the system to be presented in order to add a third, regardless of what a vendor in eBay tries to imply in an auction.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Now, THAT is clear and understandable. What these other guys are talking about is neither clear nor understandable.

I understand about programmable keys and cloned keys. You need 2 programmable keys to program another key and clone keys cannot be used to program other keys unless (according to some here) you clone 2 different programmable keys.

Not sure if that would work and I doubt if anyone has tried it.

I have only 1 key to my Explorer and I forget what the local dealer would charge me for another key. I want to say that it was $60 and that may be true. If so, that seems like a reasonable enough price to me now tho' it didn't when I first inquired about it a couple of years ago.

Two of the same keys, I.E., clones will not program a new key. Positive.

 

[Jobert]

Do I know what I mean? Of course. Do I know for a fact you need a 'program a' and a 'program b' key to make a 'program c' key? Absolutely.

Not exactly sure if that's true. If you have 2 original keys and make a 3rd key using those 2 original keys, is the 3rd key "unique from all the other, key" as you said?

Meaning could you use it (the 3rd key) to program more keys?

If you know. If you don't know, that's cool.

I don't know myself.

 

[fastpakr]

Are we just being trolled?

 

[Mbrooks420]

Not exactly sure if that's true. If you have 2 original keys and make a 3rd key using those 2 original keys, is the 3rd key "unique from all the other, key" as you said?

Meaning could you use it (the 3rd key) to program more keys?

If you know. If you don't know, that's cool.

I don't know myself.

Each key is unique. Unique= having its OWN SPECIFIC code. The protection is in that someone I.E. a valet or mechanic, or someone with ONE of you keys can't simply make a third key for themselves.

 

[fastpakr]

Not exactly sure if that's true. If you have 2 original keys and make a 3rd key using those 2 original keys, is the 3rd key "unique from all the other, key" as you said?

Meaning could you use it (the 3rd key) to program more keys?

If you know. If you don't know, that's cool.

I don't know myself.

Yes, the third is assigned a new unique code. Any two of the three keys now in the system could be used to add more.

 

[Jobert]

Because that's how the PATS system works whether you choose to accept it or not. You posted a generic explanation from a vendor on eBay that wasn't specific to Ford, much less any particular generation of PATS.

Simply put, PATS requires two distinct keys that are already in the system to be presented in order to add a third, regardless of what a vendor in eBay tries to imply in an auction.

Well, you didn't really answer my question. You just assumed that they were talking about two keys.

But that's pretty clearly not what they said. There's no mention of 2 keys in there at all.

You just seem to want to disagree with me, as your reply to me here evidences.

 

[Mbrooks420]

They are simply wrong if they don't say you need two DISTINCT keys to program a third. Period. Did you miss the part where your junk vendor link says 'take this GM KEY'. It's not for a Ford Pats system. You are being disagreed with because you are wrong.

 

[TechGuru]

Get some Stratec blanks from Ford or EBay, get em cut to your key then use ForScan and program them properly.

 

[2Trux]

To address the first question: Yes, you can clone your original key multiple times and they will start your truck

 

[lincolnshibuya]

lol, the horse is already dead...... just continue beating it...

 

[TechGuru]

To address the first question: Yes, you can clone your original key multiple times and they will start your truck

But you'll be causing unneeded additional future hell if the ECU ever randomly forgets it's PATS programming (which has happened to people here, usually when changing a battery).

You'll wind up paying for a tow plus two new unique keys from the dealer plus dealer programming.

True this would be the same either way (except for buying new keys) if one does not have their own ForScan setup to reprogram themselves, but if they do and have cloned keys they'll have to buy a unique key before they can program since 2 unique keys are required for programming from scratch.

 

[fastpakr]

Question regarding the key identifier...
Is each legitimate PATS key assigned an identifier from the factory, and the computer simply stores the identifier it reads off each key during the programming cycle?

If so, then are the clone keys actually a different type of key that some shops have, and they have a writable memory area which their equipment uses to burn in the identifier they read off a different key?

 

[TechGuru]

Question regarding the key identifier...
Is each legitimate PATS key assigned an identifier from the factory, and the computer simply stores the identifier it reads off each key during the programming cycle?

If so, then are the clone keys actually a different type of key that some shops have, and they have a writable memory area which their equipment uses to burn in the identifier they read off a different key?

Correct. Though I'm not sure if clones have a battery and circuitry in them or not...