Running Rough

[possjustin0]

Hey all, new here and hoping someone has some insight for me.

I've got an 05 XLT with 4.0 (VIN K), 4x4 with AdvanceTrac at 173,300 miles. Had it for 5 months now (it's on finance from a 'buy here, pay here') and being one problem after the next.

First problem was a P0128 (even though dealer had just put in a new thermostat and housing [yes they put in the plastic housing]). I ended up replacing the thermostat and coolant temp sensor, problem solved. Turned out their idiot "mechanic" put in the wrong thermostat.
A week later, it wouldn't start. Just clicked like starter went out, turned out being just loose connections at the starter.

Now been fine for a few months and then suddenly get a P0304 (misfire on 4). I replaced all 6 plugs, wires and the coil pack. Old plugs were the original factory installed plugs, had almost no electrode left on the 3 from driver side and about half worn on the 3 from passenger side. I put in 6 brand new NGK (TR55IX) iridium plugs, NGK plug wires and a Denso coil pack. It ran great.... for 24 hours! The next day went to make a run to the next town over, got out where speed limit goes up to 55 and that's when the problem started. Got up to about 50mph and the service engine soon light started flashing, the whole vehicle started shaking quite hard and then engine speed dropped to 1k rpm and it basically went into limp mode. Get it back home, scan for codes and get P0300 (random/multiple misfire), P0306 (misfire on 6) and P0316 (misfire on startup within first 1k revolutions). Had a co-worker suggest replacing fuel filter, so we did that at work, but it didn't help (though the old one was indeed clogged).

Message center readout shows I'm getting 6.2 MPG. What's making it a real pain is that after changing the fuel filter we cleared the codes, and none have come back since! Took it in to a trusted local mechanic and his big fancy Snap-On scanner said there was a code for the ABS and then said a misfire on 1, 3 and 6 but then dropped the codes and said nothing is wrong. The ABS code is most likely an issue with wheel bearings, at least the front passenger one has some play in it (I'll be replacing all 4 soon). There's definitely something else going on though, the engine jerks hard (visibly), can hear backfires in the tail pipe and muffler, sometimes smells to be running quite rich, there's a slight metallic ticking sound on the driver side of engine (hard to tell if it sounds like a worn out injector or possibly a worn out secondary chain tensioner).

I've had other Explorer owners give every possible thing that could be the issue. One said it seems to be timing, another said the wheel bearings are causing everything, another said clogged cats, one even said it's just due to bad fuel and someone else said it could be a thrust bearing starting to fail. I ran it on E85 a couple times and even ran Seafoam through the gas tank to clean fuel system. Switched back to regular 87 and nothing has changed. It also seemed to have a hard shift into 5th (overdrive is on). It's currently running where it gets to 2k rpm and up, but accelerates quite slow.... as in it will rev 2k and up from stop and takes a good while to even get up to 20 MPH.

On my personal Autel scan tool, I can see 6 different fuel trims. In live mode I watch them at idle, 1,500 rpm and 2,500 rpm and readouts are normal for 4 of them.. the remaining 2 show as 99.2%

Anyone have any clue what is causing all this? Need any further info?
Here's a couple 4 min videos I made to show everything going on.

 

[TechGuru]

I put in 6 brand new NGK (TR55IX) iridium plugs, NGK plug wires and a Denso coil pack. It ran great.... for 24 hours!

First install the proper Motorcraft SP500 plugs More Information for MOTORCRAFT SP500 and gap them correctly as they do not come pre gapped for this vehicle's specs.

These vehicles have a wasted spark ignition system which does not always get along with non-OEM plugs. On one bank the spark is jumping backwards though the plug. That's why the two banks wear differently.

If there is still no improvement I would try using your old ignition coil, the new one could have just been defective and crapped out in a day and there may had not been anything wrong with the old one.

Have you cleaned your mass airflow sensor and are you sure there are no leaks in the intake after it?

If none of that fixes it then I would consider clogged CAT's.

Replacment CAT assembly: More Information for DAVICO 19088 or More Information for WALKER 50545

Motorcraft thermostat: More Information for MOTORCRAFT RT1167
Metal coolant outlet: More Information for SKP SKRH144D

 

[possjustin0]

Brand new parts should NOT just crap out. And I really do not see how or why Motorcraft parts should be the only choice to use. A spark plug is a spark plug. It's only job is to create a spark to ignite the compressed fuel/air.

Old coil pack is already gone, I never keep old parts laying around.

Yes I have cleaned MAF. In live data it shows a readout of 0.01 lb/in (not sure if that's good, bad or even matters). I'll check the intake for leaks though anyway.

As far as cats go... if that's the problem, vehicle can go to junk yard! I just can NOT afford that at all. This piece of garbage already needs new wheel bearings, upper ball joints, brakes and tires at the least.

 

[TechGuru]

A spark plug is a spark plug. It's only job is to create a spark to ignite the compressed fuel/air.

That is not correct. There have been a lot of remarkable problems with plugs like E3's and SplitFire's in certain vehicles. Just looking at it I don't think fine wire iridium would work well being ran backwards in a wasted spark ignition system. A double platinum plug would be best.

Old coil pack is already gone, I never keep old parts laying around.

I would only throw away a part if it is 100% confirmed to be bad.

As far as cats go... if that's the problem, vehicle can go to junk yard! I just can NOT afford that at all. This piece of garbage already needs new wheel bearings, upper ball joints, brakes and tires at the least.

Ya that's what buy here pay here tends to sell. Curious, how much are they charging you for it? I paid $1900 cash for my 2003 4x4 in Aug 2015 with the same mileage as yours.

Also be sure the spark plug wiring is correct.

 

[possjustin0]

Grand total will probably be almost $6,000. No place else would sell me anything and I don't have any savings, I only get paid minimum wage and it's nowhere near enough. But I absolutely NEED a working and reliable vehicle to get to and from in.

I throw out old parts because I live in an apartment and have nowhere to store stuff like that.

Oh well... the stupid exploder can go and I'll just stop paying for it. Going to just get a good Honda or Toyota so then I'll have a good reliable vehicle with good gas mileage too.

 

[LMHmedchem]

Oh well... the stupid exploder can go and I'll just stop paying for it. Going to just get a good Honda or Toyota so then I'll have a good reliable vehicle with good gas mileage too.

I know it can be very frustrating to make repairs and find that the parts you used failed, or were the wrong parts in the first place. This is really just an unavoidable part of doing your own repairs, at least from time to time. It can help a great deal to post here before buying your parts. You will likely learn things that you didn't know and also may be pointed to a good deal that you didn't know about.

All that said, I don't think it makes sense to give up just yet. The diagnostic data you posted showed misfires on one side of your engine (1,3,6). You have been advised that your coil pack works differently on the two sides/banks, and not all spark plugs are compatible with that system. Based on your diagnostic information, it seems very likely this is what is happening. A set of the recommended plugs will cost $20 plus shipping from RockAuto. I think that is a pretty minimal additional expense to give it a try. A can of seafoam through the upper engine (not through the gas tank) and a good clean of the throttle body are also pretty cheap and worth a try if you haven't done that lately, though I wouldn't bother if you aren't going to change out the plugs.

Since you would have the battery disconnected for a while if you replace the plugs, I would do a PCM Software Reflash to reset your computer before starting up again.

If it works, you are back in business and you could possibly even sell the truck since it would probably be working better than it was when you got it.

I wouldn't give up just yet.

LMHmedchem

 

[possjustin0]

My co-worker (who has been working in shops for 25+ years) said I should check wheel bearings. Did that today and front passenger and rear driver bearings are going bad. Did the shake test and there's quite a bit of play in all directions. Spin test and they are grinding. So looks like I'll be replacing all 4 wheel bearings first.

 

[LMHmedchem]

I would probably try to sort out your ignition issues before sinking allot of money into your suspension. At the very least, do as TecuGuru suggested and double check the order of the plug wires. I would probably also change out the spark plugs as well.

As far as the wheel bearings go, there is no need to replace bearings if they are not showing signs of failure. It is not uncommon for bearings on one side to last many years longer than the other side. I would only replace the bearings that you have identified as moving/sounding improper.

These are the front wheel bearing and hub assemblies that are most generally recommended, more or less in order of what you will find suggested here and other similar sites.

*** 102001 Front Wheel Bearing w/ ABS Sensor ($145 +ship)
SKF BR930456 X-Tracker Front Wheel Bearing w/ ABS Sensor ($120 +ship)
MOOG 515050 Front Wheel Bearing w/ ABS Sensor ($117 +ship)
TIMKEN SP470200 Front Wheel Bearing w/ ABS Sensor ($119 +ship)

I believe that the OE Motorcraft bearings are *** (at least some of the time). The SKF bearings are some of the most commonly recommended. SKF is a Swedish company that makes very high quality products but all of these are considered top quality bearings. Just to note, the *** and SKF bearings typically come with new installation bolts with factory applied threadlock. It is recommended to not re-use the bolts, so if you get Moog or Timken you my want to confirm that thy have new bolts included. The listings are unclear on this. I have used Moog and SKF myself but would be happy with any of the above. I would avoid the temptation to get cheap bearings. You will finds a great many threads from owners who have gone this route and ended up needing to replace the bearings again very quickly. It is also recommended to replace the axle nut instead of re-using it.

The rear bearings are much more problematic. They are not bolted on like the front setup but are pressed into the rear wheel knuckle. To replace them, it is necessary to use a hydraulic press to remove the old bearing and then press in the new one. Unless you have access to such equipment, the only reasonable way to do this repair in your driveway is to replace the entire wheel knuckle with a new part that already has the hub and bearing installed.

These are the parts,

SKF BR935001LK Rear Left Knuckle Assembly ($151 +ship)
MOOG LK001 Rear Left Knuckle and Hub Assembly ($215 +ship)

Both of these come with new axle nuts.

As with all suggested parts, please don't just click and order what was suggested. Don't believe me, or anyone else. Double check the parts and make sure they are correct for your truck. There can be different parts based on your suspension, drive train, engine, trim level, etc. One good practice is to visit a Ford parts site and use your VIN number.

 

[TechGuru]

If OP is on a budget I and many others here have had good luck with the WJB Heavy Duty front wheel bearing hubs.

Front WJB HD hub: $64.89 More Information for WJB WA515050HD

Rear bare baring for shop pressing: $36.99 More Information for SKF GRW259

I don't know why you would invest in wheel bearings without getting it running correctly first.

If you choose to drive it with it constantly mis-firing YOU WILL DESTROY THE CAT's BY MELTING THEIR INTERNALS INTO A SOLID!

 

[LMHmedchem]

I don't know why you would invest in wheel bearings without getting it running correctly first.
If you choose to drive it with it constantly mis-firing YOU WILL DESTROY THE CAT's!

^^^^^^^ This is very good advice to pay attention to. If you can't get it running properly you may want to rethink putting any more into it. Do you have the ignition sorted or is it still acting up?

If OP is on a budget I and many others here have had good luck with the WJB Heavy Duty front wheel bearing hubs.
Front WJB HD hub: $64.89 More Information for WJB WA515050HD

It is always good to know about lower cost parts that people have had good success with. This is especially true when budget is an issue and many different parts may need to be replaced. $65 is a great price, especially since it includes both hub and caliper mounting bolts.

Rear bare baring for shop pressing: $36.99 More Information for SKF GRW259

The last time I paid a shop to press in a rear bearing it cost $400. You definitely want to call around and find out what the costs would be. Tell the shop that you have all the parts and ask what it costs to install. If they can't/won't tell you (at least a price range), or say they will only install parts that you buy from them, hang up and try somewhere else (you can say thank you before you hang up, it never hurts to be polite).

Mechanics around here get quite allot per hour ($75-$150), so you may be able to get a bearing installed for much less than I paid. The bearing, snap ring, and new axle nut will come to about $70 with shipping, so if they want much more than $100 or so for installation you would be better off doing it yourself if you can. It is not super easy, so you would also want to watch a video on how to do it to see if it's something you want to try or not. Another benefit of installing a knuckle yourself is that you get a new hub, lug studs, and dust shield as well as the new bearing.

LMHmedchem

 

[possjustin0]

Any problem with these sets of bearings?

Rear

More Information for AUTOSPECIALTY 521000

Front

More Information for AUTOSPECIALTY 515050

As for ignition... I have no clue at all. There has not been a check engine light or any codes at all now for over a week.
The vehicle just shakes when driving and takes tons of gas to get it up to speed, but that could be bearing related.

*EDIT*
Just to mention, I've got about $200 to work with. I have spoke to some local shops and it would be about $450 for labor to install all 4. So yeah, I really don't know what to do any more. This is really not how life should be in my 40s.

 

[TechGuru]

Any problem with these sets of bearings?

Rear

More Information for AUTOSPECIALTY 521000

Front

More Information for AUTOSPECIALTY 515050

As for ignition... I have no clue at all. There has not been a check engine light or any codes at all now for over a week.
The vehicle just shakes when driving and takes tons of gas to get it up to speed, but that could be bearing related.

You don't need bearings right now (and those are crap and you don't need a new rear hub).
You need to stop the flood of raw fuel being dumped into your CAT's before they melt which is most certainly NOT bearing related.

 

[possjustin0]

So what if it's actually a broken exhaust valve?
I think it's just time to get rid of this thing and get another vehicle.
And besides that, jobs need to pay a LOT more money.

I need a drivable vehicle NOW, I've got places to go and things to do. No wonder my dad stopped buying Ford and got a Honda. Think I'll follow suit.

 

[joney]

So what if it's actually a broken exhaust valve?
I think it's just time to get rid of this thing and get another vehicle.
And besides that, jobs need to pay a LOT more money.

I need a drivable vehicle NOW, I've got places to go and things to do. No wonder my dad stopped buying Ford and got a Honda. Think I'll follow suit.

Just don't let them do a repo...Will affect ability to get another car /loan from a dealer (if that's where you want to buy one.) Just happened to a friend of mine.

 

[TechGuru]

So what if it's actually a broken exhaust valve?

Sounds like it's more than one so that is doubtful. But if you want to check just borrow a compression tester from AutoZone or OReilly's.

I think it's just time to get rid of this thing and get another vehicle.

I would explain to the dealer that they sold you a lemon that is not ready to drive and won't pass inspection and see if they will swap it out for something else. If you turn it in and walk away it usually will usually go down as a voluntary repo on your credit. Do you already have a repo on your credit or something? With GPS tracking and remote disable if you miss a payment ability these days it's usually pretty easy to get financing on a late model vehicle.

And besides that, jobs need to pay a LOT more money.

Amen to that. I can't afford to work for less than $25/hr. Anything less would be negative gain. The pandemic bankrupted my business I ran for the past 15 years where I charged $75-$150/hr and netted a decent amount since most of my equipment was paid for. Now looking for a W2 job since I can't get a loan to restart my business the pay is a joke.

Before the pandemic I had plans to get a Toyota RAV4 Prime as soon as they came out, now that's been indefinitely delayed due to the bankruptcy of my business.

I need a drivable vehicle NOW, I've got places to go and things to do. No wonder my dad stopped buying Ford and got a Honda. Think I'll follow suit.

Like I said before, try to work with the dealer to exchange it for something else that works. Try to find something a lot newer too. Anything over 10 years old should only be owned by those of us with in depth mechanical knowledge and the tools and space to maintain them. If the dealer has a website with their inventory post it and I'll give you some recommendations.

Just don't let them do a repo...Will affect ability to get another car /loan from a dealer (if that's where you want to buy one.) Just happened to a friend of mine.

Even turning it in goes down as a voluntary repo. It would be best to try to work something out with the lot to exchange it for a different vehicle.

I don't know about OP's state but here licensed dealers can't be selling "unsafe" vehicles and in certain counties they can't even sell vehicles with the CEL light on because they must pass emissions inspection for them to be able to sell them. If the wheel bearings are as bad as OP claims then the vehicle never should have been sold and should have been sent to auction. The explorer I was trying to buy before the one I wound up with from a private seller the dealer refused the sell it to me because the CEL was on and the dealership was in a emissions county. I tried explaining that I am not in a emissions county so it does not matter to me but because they were in one they could not sell it and sent it to auction.

 

[94Eddie]

My co-worker (who has been working in shops for 25+ years) said I should check wheel bearings. Did that today and front passenger and rear driver bearings are going bad. Did the shake test and there's quite a bit of play in all directions. Spin test and they are grinding. So looks like I'll be replacing all 4 wheel bearings first.

My advice to you going forward is when buying a high mileage vehicle of any brand or type you had better crawl over like it was your date on prom night. You need to look under it (preferably on a lift), check for excessive rust, check for engine codes (or see if they have been cleared recently), check for fluid leaks, check brake pads, inspect steering components, check wheel bearings, pull a Carfax report on it and see what it says and doesn't say, check for all the functions to work properly etc. If you can't do this then pay a mechanic, or ask a knowledgeable friend you trust, to do it for you.

It sounds to me like you bought a worn out vehicle from a sleazy used car dealer without doing any due diligence to vet the vehicle's condition and know its pitfalls, in general. If you stop making payments then be prepared to pay cash for your major purchases going forward and having trouble renting housing etc. If you have no other choice then just be prepared to deal with the fallout.

Lastly, whatever car you purchase be sure to research its reliability on the internet. There are forums like this for every car brand and model sold and the people in them can be a wealth of information when trying to avoid problem vehicles and what to look out for when buying a particular brand and/or model. Had you come here first we would have told you what to check out and I would have probably told you not to buy a high mileage Explorer for many reasons based on what you have said here. If funds are tight the last thing you should be buying is a SUV of any year, make or model. Buy a small front wheel drive only economy car without a lot of bells and whistles on it. The more bells and whistles it has the more things there are to break. The gas mileage of any mid size to large SUV is horrible. Look for an early 2000s Taurus with mileage in the low 100k range. They are reliable and sold for dirt cheap. Don't buy from a used car dealer. Find someone local selling the car on the private market. If they have owned the car for a long time and it is in decent shape then it is probably a good vehicle. Don't buy a car without knowing any more about it than taking a test drive.

 

[Mbrooks420]

If you can’t afford repairs I would not suggest buying another SUV of any brand. If you’re only making minimum wage I’d seriously seek out new work. Fast food here is paying 15+ and they’ll give you 80 hours a week.

Before turning it in I’d unfortunately fall asleep at the wheel and total the poor truck. Much better off to start with a down payment, more efficient vehicle, and a hit on your insurance rates.

 

[TechGuru]

Buy a small front wheel drive only economy car without a lot of bells and whistles on it.

I don't know if they still are or not but used older Toyota Prius's were quite affordable a couple years ago.

Here are a few I found in Illinois.

2007 TOYOTA PRIUS Base - cars & trucks - by dealer - vehicle...

Vehicle Description Weve got a 2007 Toyota Prius Hybrid up for sale, Clean title, Reverse Camera, Keyless Entry, Push to start, Good Tires, Good Brakes, Good Battery, Alloy Wheels, Heater blows hot...

chicago.craigslist.org

2008 TOYOTA PRIUS - cars & trucks - by dealer - vehicle automotive...

2008 TOYOTA PRIUS FWD SPORT LUXURY WITH 164,739 LOW MILES SUPER CLEAN SUPER LUXURY AND SPORT, GREAT LOOKS VERY WELL SERVICED, VERY WELL MAINTAINED CLEAN AND CLEAR TITLE LOADED, CD RADIO AM FM,...

racine.craigslist.org

2015 Toyota Prius One !!Bad Credit, No Credit💥 NO PROBLEM!! - cars &...

2015 *** Toyota Prius One Hatchback *** Ready To Upgrade Your Ride Today? We Make It Fast & Easy! Call ☏ Year : 2015 Make : Toyota Model : Prius Trim : One Mileage : 41,424 miles Transmission :...

chicago.craigslist.org

Before turning it in I’d unfortunately fall asleep at the wheel and total the poor truck. Much better off to start with a down payment, more efficient vehicle, and a hit on your insurance rates.

Sounds like he's hoping it catches fire driving it with it missing like that making the CAT's glow red hot.

 

[LMHmedchem]

Whatever you decide to do, I would replace the spark plugs with the correct Motorcraft plugs and make very certain that the spark plug wires are connected correctly to the coil pack. The diagram posted by TechGuru is not what I would have expected for a v6, so check what you did very carefully. Post a picture of your current setup if you can.

The reason for changing the plugs is that if you go back to where you bought it, they will just say that the issues result from you doing your own repairs with the wrong parts. It doesn't matter at all if that is actually true or not, that is what they will say. The correct plugs will cost about $30 with shipping. If they fix the problem or make a significant improvement, then you have many more options. You could keep it for a while and do the other repairs over time, you could try to sell it or trade it in, etc. If the new plugs don't help, you are in a much better position to go back to whoever you bought it from and return it. We have a lemon law here where I live and even a private seller would have to take the truck back. I don't know what the laws are where you live but many states now have some level of buyer protection.

If you got a loan to buy this, maybe the bank could step in an help. They have money on the line as well because if the truck is a lemon, they aren't going to get their money back even if they do reposes it.

LMHmedchem

 

[TechGuru]

If you got a loan to buy this, maybe the bank could step in an help.

OP stated "buy here pay here" in the first post. The dealer IS the bank...