SOHC V6 Supercharger

[Dono]

I think using the overflow reservoir is a fantastic idea. Unless you are on the dyno for extended periods (High load with no air movement) I really don't see the intercooler coolant ever heating up enough to even think about building pressure.

Wouldn't the pump still prime as long as the pump is not the high point in the system? I know what you mean though, as it will be more difficult to get the air out of the system. Also, you will probably need to make sure you have a better cap on the overflow tank that won't leak coolant when the tank's full. I'm really not sure where any air in the system would end up.

As the pump pushes thru the IC, there won't be any chance for air to be in the front radiator, so that leaves the reservoir. If that cap doesn't seal solidly, I'm betting it would want to leak.

Am I wrong?

 

[CDW6212R]

Many of the late Ford overflow bottles are rather small, but the shapes are all odd so finding one would still be tough. The simple overflow bottles are made just big enough to hold volume for expansion, and there isn't much air in them. I'd go with one of those if the IC system has enough coolant volume in the heat exchanger being used.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Another implementation

I think using the overflow reservoir is a fantastic idea. Unless you are on the dyno for extended periods (High load with no air movement) I really don't see the intercooler coolant ever heating up enough to even think about building pressure.

Wouldn't the pump still prime as long as the pump is not the high point in the system? I know what you mean though, as it will be more difficult to get the air out of the system. Also, you will probably need to make sure you have a better cap on the overflow tank that won't leak coolant when the tank's full. I'm really not sure where any air in the system would end up.

As the pump pushes thru the IC, there won't be any chance for air to be in the front radiator, so that leaves the reservoir. If that cap doesn't seal solidly, I'm betting it would want to leak. Am I wrong?

That's not what I was trying to describe but it's another possible implementation. For your idea I would add a port at the bottom of the existing overflow tank that would be an output to the intercooler pump. Priming would not be an issue because the overflow tank is above the IC pump. I would add another port near the top of the overflow tank that would be an input from the intercooler. The intercooler system would use the engine coolant but not be pressurized. It would be a fairly easy installation. Currently the only "flow" in the overflow reservoir is due to the expansion and contraction of coolant in the engine and radiator. Consequently, the temperature of the tank coolant is probably about the same as other components in the engine compartment. Using the tank additionally as an IC reservoir would result in a constant flow (317 gph) thru the tank. The temperature of coolant in the tank would be dependent on cooling capacity of the heat exchanger (ATF cooler), heat gained by intercooler, and the cumulative effect of the previous two. Since the intercooler only has an effect during boost (air normally bypasses the blower and intercooler) the tank temperature would be lowered almost to ambient from the constant flow of coolant thru the cooler. I could add an overflow tube to avoid a mess in the engine compartment should an overflow occur. Since I replaced my single row radiator with a double row I have no overheating issues. Initially, I like your idea better than mine. I can buy a used tank for about $30 to experiment with.

 

[CDW6212R]

The OEM overflow bottles came with and without a low level sensor. Find the one like yours, I bought one before discovering that.

 

[2000StreetRod]

With or without?

The OEM overflow bottles came with and without a low level sensor. Find the one like yours, I bought one before discovering that.

Don, are you suggesting I purchase an overflow assembly with or without the low level sensor? My Sport was an economy model with no message center so I doubt that the overflow tank has a low level sensor. It would be convenient to have one and know when the coolant is low but the sensor would reduce the coolant volume some and might make it more difficult to add ports.

Edit: I checked the wiring diagrams and there is a low washer fluid level sensor input to the message center but no coolant level sensor input.

What are your thoughts on pushing the engine coolant thru the intercooler and an unpressurized system? 50% antifreeze would lower the boiling point and I could add "water wetter" to make the IC, heat exchanger and radiator more efficient.

 

[CDW6212R]

I just wanted you to be sure to get one with a sensor if you needed it. I have one without that I don't plan to use.

I think that idea of having just one reservoir is good if it's all that will be needed(no serious racing, need ice in it etc). It should work fine, though for any leak it would be tougher to find which system is leaking. You can manage it.

I prefer to avoid anti-freeze, it is less efficient at heat transfer. I use as little as possible, plus Water Weter, and it does great. I have needed generally just about a gallon of anti-freeze in my cars, maybe five quarts, to reach about zero degrees protection.

If the one reservoir system is a serious idea, I'd still see if there is a late model part that can fit, even if it goes in the stock location. The pressurized reservoirs are made of thicker plastic, the cap and hole are bigger, and they aren't open to atmosphere if coolant overflows. I think it would be easier to deal with those if you can find one that fits well.

Check out the Thunderbird and later Taurus, cars that turn up in the yards a lot now. I think something will have a reservoir that is kind of tall, versus flat and laid out over a fender etc.

 

[Carguy3J]

Links for blower parts/supplies/tools

I thought there was a good chance of damaging the pulley when using a 3 jaw puller. Maybe that was for a GM M90 and not a Supercoupe. Also, I thought the pulley had to be pressed on with a 5 ton hydraulic press which I don't have. How do you get your pulleys off and on?

Here is a link, that shows what the tool looks like. Maybe you could make your own? http://www.pulleyboys.com/M90.pdf

Personally, I would still be a little worried about messing up the pulley w/ the 3-jaw. It doesn't take much to bend it. As for installation, I also wouldn't want to have to do any hammering, or even "tapping", as the plastic coupler in the snout probably won't be too happy with that.

Oh, also, another link for T-Bird Blower "stuff":
http://spinningwheels-sc.com/superchargersandmore.aspx

Also, there is ZZP, although they focus on the GM 3800 version of the M90. You might still find some use for some of there stuff. Just be warned, there customer service is HORRIBLE! They flat-out refuse to answer the phone, and they make no apologies for it. In fact they have quite the attitude about it. Nonetheless, they sell good stuff; some of which you may not find anywhere else.
http://shop.zzperformance.com/

 

[jd4242]

Here is a link, that shows what the tool looks like. Maybe you could make your own? http://www.pulleyboys.com/M90.pdf

Personally, I would still be a little worried about messing up the pulley w/ the 3-jaw. It doesn't take much to bend it. As for installation, I also wouldn't want to have to do any hammering, or even "tapping", as the plastic coupler in the snout probably won't be too happy with that.

Oh, also, another link for T-Bird Blower "stuff":
http://spinningwheels-sc.com/superchargersandmore.aspx

Also, there is ZZP, although they focus on the GM 3800 version of the M90. You might still find some use for some of there stuff. Just be warned, there customer service is HORRIBLE! They flat-out refuse to answer the phone, and they make no apologies for it. In fact they have quite the attitude about it. Nonetheless, they sell good stuff; some of which you may not find anywhere else.
http://shop.zzperformance.com/

Your the first person I have EVER heard say that.zzp has helped me unbelievably! !! The tech guy even gave me his person cell number, I run there pulleys, ic and a lot of other parts.don't think any of their stuff fits the ford charger tho.they are A+++ in my book.

 

[Carguy3J]

Your the first person I have EVER heard say that.zzp has helped me unbelievably! !! The tech guy even gave me his person cell number, I run there pulleys, ic and a lot of other parts.don't think any of their stuff fits the ford charger tho.they are A+++ in my book.

Google it.... You'll find plenty of unhappy people; mainly about the phone issue.

I bought a ported blower, and quick change pulley, as well as a few other items, for a friends car, a couple years ago. It was nothing but aggravation.

As I said, they refuse to answer their phone. Its well known, and they freely admit it. They want you to leave a message, and wait for them to call you back at THEIR convenience. That could take 24-48 hrs. I understand that the "tech guru" may not always be available, but there is no excuse for not having someone to answer the phone during normal business hours.

Further they a.) didn't follow specific shipping instructions (which they agreed they would), in terms of notations on the address,etc.. This caused the package to go missing. They wouldn't take responsibility, and it cost me $80 to re-order/replace the part.

b.) decided, on their own, to ship me a blower with a bolt boss machined off (for the alternator bracket), because its "what they had in stock". This modification is only needed for certain conversion projects. I was just replacing a stock blower, on a Grand Prix GTP. When I FINALLY got a hold of them, after 2 days of leaving messages and emails (no, not on a weekend), they told me it was fine, that I could just leave the alternator support off. I told them it was not my car, and I was not going to alter it for their convenience, even if it meant they had to go and purchase a new core, and re-machine/port another blower for me. I wanted what I ordered. No more, no less. They eventually agreed to replace it, but wanted the first blower back, before doing anything on the replacement. On that, they wouldn't budge. So, they cost me almost 2 weeks of delays, between waiting for them to receive the old one, and then waiting for the replacement.

c.) When I sent in the core, they conveniently "forgot" to credit me back, until I wasted more time on numerous phone calls to get that resolved.

As I said, if I had a GM 3800 car, I'd probably end up buying from them, simply because there aren't many options. But, I'd hate every second of it...


Oh, and here is some tech articels, at least, on their site that might be useful:

http://www.zzperformance.com/blog/category/3800/

 

[Dono]

Here is a link, that shows what the tool looks like. Maybe you could make your own? http://www.pulleyboys.com/M90.pdf

Personally, I would still be a little worried about messing up the pulley w/ the 3-jaw. It doesn't take much to bend it. As for installation, I also wouldn't want to have to do any hammering, or even "tapping", as the plastic coupler in the snout probably won't be too happy with that.

Honestly, The Ford Supercoupe M90 pulleys are not press on. At the end of the day, this is another level of safety I suppose, but I would say its completely nu-necessary. The supercoupe guys over at sccoa will say the same thing.

 

[Carguy3J]

Honestly, The Ford Supercoupe M90 pulleys are not press on. At the end of the day, this is another level of safety I suppose, but I would say its completely nu-necessary. The supercoupe guys over at sccoa will say the same thing.

Oh, ok then. I guess I was wrong. I've never tried to remove the pulley from a SuperCoupe M90. I guess maybe that's why there doesn't seem to be many "quick change" kits available. Whereas, its fairly easy to find one for the GM M90.

So, once the nut is removed, does it basically just slide off?

 

[Dono]

Yes, after removing the nut and doing an initial pull with the 3 jaw puller it pulls right off by hand

 

[2000StreetRod]

how to torque a new pulley?

According to a note the new smaller diameter pulleys sold by Pulley Boys no longer have the hexagon casting on the front of the pulley. How do you keep the pulley from rotating when applying torque to the retaining nut? Does anyone have another source for a 2.8 inch pulley that still has the hex casting?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Measuring performance

I've been reflecting on ways to measure performance for comparing various modifications. Horsepower is a contrived number that equals torque times the ratio of rpm/5252. Torque is a useful performance evaluator but must normally be measured on a dynamometer. It is incovenient (and a little expensive) to travel to a dyno to have the vehicle tested after every potential performance enhancement. Time to speed or time to distance are excellent performance evaluators but repeatability (due to environmental factors) and safety (unless a racetrack is used) are detrimental issues. For a supercharged engine boost may be a performance indicator. However, since the M90 is an air handler rather than a compressor, boost varies greatly with varying airflow restrictions.

It seems to me that air mass flow might be a useful performance evaluator. For any given air/fuel ratio, engine speed/vehicle speed/gearing if when going to WOT if the air mass flow is greater for a particular modification then previously the vehicle performance should increase assuming similar environmental factors (ambient temperature, barometric pressure, level terrain, wind, etc.). The MAF sensor provides the data to the PCM which makes it available for data logging via the OBDII port. I intend to test this evaluation method using past and future data logs.

 

[Dono]

I think 0 to 60 times when logging might be a good one. Then you would have a good idea on acceleration.
Thinks like timing affect performance so much that mass air flow might not be a great indicator.
My motor currently moves a fair amount of air thru it, but the timing is so far retarded that the power isn't there.

 

[CDW6212R]

Try to locate a performance testing device, a VC2000 or one of the other models. Those used to be somewhat reasonable, say $400 or so new, but they began making higher end devices, and the used prices went up. I have the basic a model, which I used to test my first 91 LSC in 1996. Those devices measure G's, so from a dead stop you will get 20-30 measurement data points, of time, speed, acceleration, and distance. The times don't relate well to a normal track, because at a track they don't measure roll out, and reaction time. The VC devices only will work from a stop, they measure from the instant the vehicle moves.

I used to check on those, to see how many are available, and prices. But when I saw some like mine selling for double what I paid for mine, I stopped. That was 5+ years ago.

The less expensive similar devices will work also, they just come as a gauge to install, or a display, and don't give quite as much data. They are much cheaper too.

 

[2000StreetRod]

intercooler pump control

Normally, I want the intercooler pump to be running any time the engine is running and not running when the engine is not running just like the fuel pump. The Bosch intercooler pump draws between 2.5 and 3.5 amps depending upon application. According to the installation guide for the Stealth 340 it can draw as much as 16 amps at 65 psi and a 30 amp circuit breaker is recommended (stock is only 20 amps) so the fuel pump electrical source should not be used for the intercooler pump. However, I can add another relay controlled by the PCM fuel pump signal by tapping into the LB/OG wire that goes to the fuel pump relay. If desired I could run the wire tap to a driver accessible switch to manually disable the intercooler pump relay.

 

[Carguy3J]

How is the M90, or any supercharger, not a compressor?

........ However, since the M90 is an air handler rather than a compressor, boost varies greatly with varying airflow restrictions. ......

Please explain this. I understand there are different types of supercharges,etc..., but it would seem to me that anything which squeezes air (which the M90 does, while forcing air between the narrow spaces between the meshing rotor "lobes") and raises it above atmospheric pressure, is, by definition, a compressor.

 

[Dono]

I love the idea of tapping in to the fuel pump and using a relay. I'll have to have a look for mine. I was going to use ACC, but we all know that could leave me stranded.

 

[2000StreetRod]

reciprocating vs rotary compressor

Please explain this. I understand there are different types of supercharges,etc..., but it would seem to me that anything which squeezes air (which the M90 does, while forcing air between the narrow spaces between the meshing rotor "lobes") and raises it above atmospheric pressure, is, by definition, a compressor.

Good catch! According to my 1970 American College Dictionary a compressor is "a machine, usually driven by electric or steam power, by which a gas is compressed so that its expansion may be utilized as a source of power." That definitely applies to the M90. I should have stated "reciprocating compressor" which is a positive-displacement compressor utilizing a piston for high pressure applications.

The M90 is a rotary compressor of the Roots type typically suitable for a maximum pressure differential ratio of less than two (14.7 psi boost at sea level). As previously posted in this thread by rocket 5979 the 5th generation M90 has the highest adiabatic efficiency at 6.5 psi boost and 6,000 blower rpm.