Sounds like a diesel... yikes!

[Taken625]

I have an issue that seems to be common to 02 Explorers (4.0 2 wheel drive, 212k) Let me say 1st, I'm like the princess and the pea, if something is wrong with my truck, I may not know exactly what it is immediately but I definitely notice instantly. I take excellent care of my vehicle, all maintenance performed on time. I even replace shocks/struts as maintanance items. Couple yrs ago, I noticed a faint knock. Brought it to the shop, found out rear timing chain guide broke off. Truck still runs very smooth. Got a couple of opinions, most said I could drive it like that for years, that it's a common issue. A few months ago, ck gauge light would come on occasionally & oil pressure gauge would drop. Take foot off brake & it came right back up & light went off. Usually happens in warm weather after driving a while. Yesterday, went to the store, knock seemed a slight bit louder when I was leaving but nothing alarming but enough to make me want to ck oil level when I got home. 1/2 mile later, ck gauge light came on, oil pressure bottomed. Shut it off, started it 5 mins later, def louder. Pulled out and into a parking lot maybe 1/8 mile from home and it sounded like I was driving a diesel!!! Limped it the very short distance home. It does still start, but i wont start it until i know it's fixed. Oil level good but smells like gas (had fuel injectors replaced Nov '17). I use Valvoline Max Life, high mileage synthetic bkend oil and have for last 9 yrs. Does this sound like the oil pump went out or the whole engine? I was going to start by pulling oil pan, replacing pump & sending unit & of course, gaskets. Would that be the best place to start or does that seem way off base? I just had it up on a lift checking it over 3 days ago. Saw valve covers leaking, already planned to replace them next week.
Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[Drewmcg]

First off, whoever told you it was okay to drive truck with a broken timing chain guide gave you *terrible* advice! Ask Streetrod2000 if you don't believe me!

First off, proper timing is critical to any engine--especially an "interference" engine like this one. If the timing slips--which is much, much, much more likely with a broken guide--you get bent valves (if lucky) and a broken head/block (if not so lucky).

Second, the chain slap from the looseness caused by the broken guide can cause significant damage to the surrounding parts of the head and the bolts holding other bits of the guide/tensioners (that is, other than the bit that originally broke off), potentially ruining a head and sending bits of a bolt careeningly through the engine.

Third, the broken plastic/nylon bits of the guide have to go somewhere. Usually, they fall down into the oil pan, where they frequently get sucked up into the oil pickup. This is very bad. The more bits that get sucked into that pickup and caught in between the opening and the screen a few millimeters behind that opening, the lower oil pressure goes (starving engine for oil). If the oil pressure is too low for too long, of course, you can ruin the crank bearings and lots of other parts of the engine.

Engines with broken timing chain guides are ticking time bombs. They *never* get better--only worse! And they are significantly easier and cheaper to repair before they get worse.

A few recommendations:

• do NOT start or run this engine;
• drain oil and then remove the entire lower oil pan. Check for evidence of the (orange-brownish) chain guides in there;
• If you find bits, then you have confirmed broken guide. You cannot run the engine (sensibly, at least) until you get at least the broken guide fixed;
• Take special care to fish/pry/needle-nose out from the oil pickup any small bits of guide while you're in there;
• I'd double check the wiring to your oil pressure switch (driver side of the engine, low, toward the front of block), to make sure the fluctuations in you "gauge" are not from a loose connection (perhaps caused when someone was poking around in there when you had it on the lift a few weeks ago). Understand that the gauge is really not a gauge, in the sense that its "on/off": if the pressure is at the set limit, then the circuit closes and the needle goes to the middle of the dial. If the pressure falls below that limit (even a fraction), then the needle falls to zero. So you either have a good wire/connection or not. Very unlikely that you have a bad sending unit, unless its the terminal on top. They are cheap and easy to replace.

Lots of threads here about replacing timing chains on this engine, which is a big job. If its the passenger side chain, you need to either remove the engine or the transmission to replace (most remove the engine, which is what I did ). The driver's side can be done with engine in the car, as can the "primary" timing chain on the front of the engine. NB: broken bits of guide in the oil pan does not tell you which side is broken. You need to remove valve covers to verify that.

The open question is this: even if you replace the guide(s), was there damage to the engine caused by operating too long at low oil pressure? Others will have to advise you on that. At least with the above diagnosis, you can make a decision what you want to do, and sell it honestly as a "mechanics special" if you're not up for the repair. Good luck.

 

[boominXplorer]

Third, the broken plastic/nylon bits of the guide have to go somewhere. Usually, they fall down into the oil pan, where they frequently get sucked up into the oil pickup. This is very bad. The more bits that get sucked into that pickup and caught in between the opening and the screen a few millimeters behind that opening, the lower oil pressure goes (starving engine for oil). If the oil pressure is too low for too long, of course, you can ruin the crank bearings and lots of other parts of the engine.

Probably your issue here. I'd search for a replacement engine and put some new guides on it before it goes in.

 

[Taken625]

Thanks for the responses. I figured I probably needed a new engine, and of course, that's what I'd prefer.

Any thoughts on just rebuilding this engine, IF there's no major damage? I'm kind of worried about getting a used engine because I have no clue how it' been cared for previously. I know with mine, I've taken great care of it. I wanted to replace timing chains when the guide broke but even my techncians at Ford (where I worked) said to drive it until it quits, then replace it. We did remove the valve covers initially, to verify the broken guide on the rear chain. I knew then that it was, as you said, a ticking time bomb and would need a new engine, it just wasn't in the budget at the time. Kinda isn't now either. I truly hate to get rid of this vehicle. I love it and can't imagine replacing it with a newer model, especially the ones out now. They seem more like a station wagon vs truck/SUV. I always say, if I hit the lottery, I'd have this one refurbished with all new parts, inside and out before I'd get a brand new vehicle. Ugh, this bites.

 

[Drewmcg]

"I'm kind of worried about getting a used engine because I have no clue how it' been cared for previously. I know with mine, I've taken great care of it."

No disrespect, but you haven't taken great care of this engine. You drove it around for two years with a broken timing guide, and then again for a few months with low/erratic oil pressure. Now it sounds like a diesel, has no power, and has gas in the oil (which should never happen). You effectively made the decision to drive this engine into the ground when you followed the advice to drive it until it quits. No going back now.

I'd follow Boomin's advice if you want to keep this truck, and put all new guides, chain's, tensioners, and sprockets on the used engine while it's on the stand. new water pump and thermostat housing, too.

What's the story on the transmission?

 

[cpitlock]

Thanks for the responses. I figured I probably needed a new engine, and of course, that's what I'd prefer.

Any thoughts on just rebuilding this engine, IF there's no major damage? I'm kind of worried about getting a used engine because I have no clue how it' been cared for previously. I know with mine, I've taken great care of it. I wanted to replace timing chains when the guide broke but even my techncians at Ford (where I worked) said to drive it until it quits, then replace it. We did remove the valve covers initially, to verify the broken guide on the rear chain. I knew then that it was, as you said, a ticking time bomb and would need a new engine, it just wasn't in the budget at the time. Kinda isn't now either. I truly hate to get rid of this vehicle. I love it and can't imagine replacing it with a newer model, especially the ones out now. They seem more like a station wagon vs truck/SUV. I always say, if I hit the lottery, I'd have this one refurbished with all new parts, inside and out before I'd get a brand new vehicle. Ugh, this bites.

I'm in the same position as you with the timing chain tensioner on my 2002 Explorer XLT. My mechanic suggested a remanufactured engine. He's getting it from jasperengines.com. It has a 3-yr and unlimited mileage warranty. The cost is $7000! He told me of another company that sells them for less but has terrible reviews. I started looking to buy another Explorer XLT. I was hoping to fid one with the same wheel size as mine. Discount Tire said they would switch over my 4-month-old Michelins. This time it would be a 2008-2010 that could last the rest of my life (I am 72). I am not finding many. Most of them are black, not a good idea in Houston summers. It makes more sense to put the $ into my Explorer instead of buying something where the engine may go out next month. btw, the new engine includes timing chains.

 

[Joe in NY]

With Jasper, make sure you buy the extended labor cost warranty. We purchased the $100/hr labor warranty and it was the best $200 spent. We are on Jasper engine #3 in our suburban. What a headache it was.. They tried pinning the bill on us until they received the first two motors and realized that on engine #1 the "upgraded" oil pressure relief came apart and the oil pump chewed itself to bits while towing on the highway, then for engine #2 they found a bolt from production lying in the bottom of the engine pan which had wiped out a piston skirt causing a rather loud knock at idle. Who knows how long engine #3 will last! We were told they were the best..

 

[96firephoenix]

I'm in the same position as you with the timing chain tensioner on my 2002 Explorer XLT. My mechanic suggested a remanufactured engine. He's getting it from jasperengines.com. It has a 3-yr and unlimited mileage warranty. The cost is $7000! He told me of another company that sells them for less but has terrible reviews. I started looking to buy another Explorer XLT. I was hoping to fid one with the same wheel size as mine. Discount Tire said they would switch over my 4-month-old Michelins. This time it would be a 2008-2010 that could last the rest of my life (I am 72). I am not finding many. Most of them are black, not a good idea in Houston summers. It makes more sense to put the $ into my Explorer instead of buying something where the engine may go out next month. btw, the new engine includes timing chains.

That 7 grand Better include labor! I've been pretty happy with the one I got from RockAuto for about $1800.

 

[cpitlock]

That 7 grand Better include labor! I've been pretty happy with the one I got from RockAuto for about $1800.

Yes, it does include labor.
After reading all of these posts I am worried about driving it until it goes into the shop on Monday. My plan was to drive no more than 40. Is it better to drive on the freeway, using my flashers, or have the engine running longer by driving on surface streets with red lights, etc.?

 

[Littleant]

How about not driving it??. Remember if you go with a new/rebuilt engine the company will charge you a core charge for your engine. If your engine is rebuildable the core charge will be refunded to you. If you blow the engine with a big hole in the block the core charge will not be refunded to you for the engine. That amount could be considerable.

 

[donalds]

All remanufactured engine companies will have bad reviews no matter what
I bought mine from dahmer
Remanufactured Engines|Crate Engines|Rebuilt Engines
$2470 remanufactured engine
$450 core
$225 freight
100000 mile 36 month warranty
Was delivered in 4 days
It did come with a new timing cover and oil pan / girdle/ latter
And lower oil pan

I think we are at about 12000 miles now since the install

 

[96firephoenix]

Yes, it does include labor.
After reading all of these posts I am worried about driving it until it goes into the shop on Monday. My plan was to drive no more than 40. Is it better to drive on the freeway, using my flashers, or have the engine running longer by driving on surface streets with red lights, etc.?

There is no "best way to drive this engine." Don't drive it.

 

[08EddieCA]

What’s left of my timing chain guides

• 08EddieCA
• December 27, 2018
• 3

Same situation as yours, sorta. Skipped time. Slapping chain wore through right head screw/bolt holding upper section of timing cassette in place.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Just an FYI the oil pressure gauge is nothing more than a switch. It’ll read normal with a nominal amount of pressure (say 5psi) and nothing below. It’s very likely that you’ve been driving with poor oil pressure the whole time. This engine is likely junk top to bottom.

I agree that another engine, even of unknown history is likely to be better. I’d drive it home, it’s already likely ruined.

 

[donalds]

Rip sohc