Still No Reverse After Rebuild of 5R55E Valve Body

[elittleton73]

First I would like to thank everyone for all the info on these forums. Because of the information, I rebuilt the valve body on my 1998 5R55E.

All forward gears work great. They shift so smooth. I did the superior shift kit, Ford TSB mod, new separator plate and replaced the EPC solenoid. But reverse is still out. That was the original reason I rebuilt the valve body.

Currently I've pulled the valve body off again and looking for any problems that I might be able to see that I first over looked. Several users such as BrooklynBay, Glacier, etc. have suggested in other posts to check the reverse modulator valves and springs in bore 205. How do you get all the valves out to check. The plug valve retainer, first reverse modulator valve and spring came out without a problem, but I can't get the remaining valves and springs out. The next plug retainer valve seems to rotate, but I can't tell if it is stuck or this is normal. Is there a special tool to remove these valves and springs from the bore. Any suggestions would be great on how to tell if something in there is bad.

Also manual first works. Based on info in this forum, I'm thinking the reverse band is okay, but not sure. The transfer case seems to be okay because it will still go into 4WD Low, but no reverse in 4WD Low. BrooklynBay has mentioned several times that a broken shift fork could cause reverse to go out. More info on why this could happen would be great.

One thing I have found is the reverse servo is chipped on its end. Looks identical to the photos from CAG8R in the photo gallery. Could this possibly be causing reverse to not work. I did replace the o-ring on the reverse servo the first go around. I just thought the chipped end was normal. BrooklynBay suggested to press against the reverse band in one of the forums. I guess you would press up through the opening the reverse servo fits into? What would I be looking for when I press against the band?

Not sure what to do next. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I haven't run any pressure gauges on the tranny yet. I haven't checked the transfer case fluid yet. Hoping to not have to drop the tranny or the transfer case, but will it you guys feel that is a good next step.

 

[manaen]

the post from the servo pushes on the band to engadge it. the idea is that you need to push against it with a long phillips screw driver to make sure that the band is not broken. I'm not sure what this chip looks like but if it will in anyway allow the fluid to leak past the piston you need to replace the part.

 

[Glacier991]

I'll add though that the same band is used to provide manual 1st gear, so generally speaking manual 1st gear is a good indicator of a good band.

Reverse is accomplished thusly:

Quoting the FORD 5R55E manual:

Hydraulic components:

"With the transmission shifter in the R position, fluid under pressure applies the following components:

- Coast Clutch (TCS "On")
- Direct clutch
- Reverse Servo

Fluid under pressure also affects the position of the man regulator valve to provide a reverse boost."

In terms of diagnosis by symptom, FORD states:

Possible component:

Fluid - Improper level

Shift linkage - Transmissions shift cable damaged and or backet damaged or off location. DTR sensor out of adjustment

Fluid Filter or Seal - Filter damaged, plugged, seal cut or missing

Main Control Ass'y - Screws out of torque spec. Gasket damaged or off location, Sep plate damaged, 2-3 shift valve (203), 3-4 shift valve (204) reverse modulator valve (205), spring damaged, missing, misassembled, stuck or bore damaged. Wrong component used in rebuild.

Pump - screws out of torque specification, pump damaged, leaking

Direct/Reverse Clutch/Reverse Band - Reverse clutch assembly burnt, worn, leaking check ball in clutch piston, leaking seal rings; cover gasket damaged. Direct/Reverse servo piston seal cut or leaking."

Now in plain english....

You had this problem prior to the VB rebuild, and still after. NOT something you cause did your VB rebuild, VB is likely ok ... assuming you had it completely apart... if not, esp the reverse modulation circuit, you may not have addressed the VB problem. The Sonnax Website has available online a disassmebly guide for completlely stripping this VB... good reading.

What we really need is a line pressure reading in reverse. If you cannot find a pressure gauge PM me and I can loan you one with a deposit.

 

[elittleton73]

Thanks Glacier for the response. I'm going to check the sonnax website on how to disassemble the valve body completely. In a little while I'll put the valve body back on and check the line pressure. I've got a gauge, just not sure if I have the right fitting. I'll try to post a response by the end of the day if I can get everything done.

I did not have the valve body completely apart. I'm assuming by "completely apart" you mean to check every bore. I only did the modifications that was required by the Ford TSB Kit and Superior Shift Kit, except step 4 in the superior kit (replace the coast clutch valve retaining plug). Step 4 said "...If you are unable to get this plug removed, at least clean this area of the valve body very thoroughly." It was very difficult to remove so I gave up. I'll look there again too.

Also in response to Manaen, it was the tip of the reverse servo. The portion that presses against the reverse band.

 

[aut1jlt]

Sounds like a very similar problem to my NO REVERSE 5r55e. Rebuilt valve body, I did the tranny too with clutches, bands, and new low & intermediate servos. I too used the Ford update with new separator plate, and the Superior shift kit.
But how did you check for Manual First gear?

 

[BrooklynBay]

A chipped servo tip would cause a lack of apply pressure against the band. Replace the servo with the correct length (3 possibilities). They make a servo extendo tip which is a fit all, and requires grinding to get the exact lenght. It's not recommended unless you have an exact servo next to you for comparison. You wouldn't want to make it too long. It would cause the band to be applied all of the time.

 

[elittleton73]

Here's an update to my no reverse problem. I ran a transmission pressure test tonight. All readings while at idle are in the recommended range. Reverse is actually a little high. Around 200 psi at idle. I ran these test with the explorer on jack stands. When I put it in reverse, the wheels will still not engage. I've check the transfer case fluid level and its good.

I used the chipped reverse servo for this test. It didn't seem bad enough to be causing the problem. If I have to rebuild the transmission, I'll replace then.

Aut1jlt, the only test I did for manual first was driving it. It had no problems with forward movement.

Well I'm really frustrated at this point. Not sure where to start next. I guess I'm back to the drawing board. But I'm thinking there must be a problem inside the transmission. Possibly reverse clutch? Any suggestions for my next move would be great. Thanks to everyone for their help so far.

 

[manaen]

I think you verified this already but I just want to be thorough.
You did verify that the tranny works when shifted into manual 1st gear correct. Not just D but 1 on the shifter, because as glacier said the low/reverse band is used for both gears. If that works it just leaves the hard parts and the valve body.

 

[elittleton73]

Manaen, the tranny works great when shifted into manual 1st gear.

 

[manaen]

well, then all that is left is a good check on the VB (maybe take Glacier up on his offer) and then the internals, but I really think it is VB related. since Manual 1 works and all other gears including 4th and 5th which eliminates the direct clutch, Low/Reverse band etc...

 

[elittleton73]

Glacier, do you have any other thoughts on the line pressure readings. I feel like I've checked the valve body throughly. The only other thing I can do to it is replace the reverse servo. The chip on the end was so minor, I don't see how it would affect pressing against the reverse band. (I will replace however when I do additional work on the tranny). I found the info on the Sonnax website for disassembling the 5r55e valve body. Everything checked out good. No stuck valves, broken springs, etc.

Assuming the valve body is okay and I feel it is, why would all the pressure readings be good when doing a line pressure test on the transmission, but still no engaging in reverse? I just don't know enough about transmissions to diagnose. I'm guessing a possible reverse clutch in the transmission. Glacier, my reasoning is from the info you gave me from the Ford 5r55e manual.

Manaen, when you said take Glacier up on his offer, are you referring to the pressure gauge? My dad had one I was able to use. Just had to get an adapter to fit the 5r55e.

 

[Glacier991]

I can loan you a brand new 5R55E Valve body to try and use to rule out any VB issues. It will require that your fluid is clean and a deposit to insure it comes home. You would be out the round trip shipping to try it.... thatshould run about $30. Deposit will be S400, 100% refundable on return.

 

[elittleton73]

Glacier, thanks for offer. I may take you up. But I may just go ahead and take the transmission out. I got the ATSG manual for the 5R55E.

There are a few tools the manual says you need to do the job. Has anybody rebuilt their 5R55E transmission without the help of these specialty tools? If they are definitely required, does anybody know if they can be rented. If you don't need these tools, what general tools can be used? The tools listed in the manual include:

Seam Remover T94P-77001-BH
Impact Slide Hammer T50T-100A
Extension Housing Bushing Remover T77L-7697-E
Servo Removal Tool T97T-7D021-A
Seal Remover Tool 1175-AC
Converter Housing Seal Replacer T97T-77000-A
Clutch Spring Compressor T65L-77515-A
Coast Clutch Outer Seal Sizing Tool T95L-70010-D
Coast Clutch Outer Seal Sizing Tool T95L-70010-E
Lip Seal Protector T74P-77548-B
Lip Seal Protector T74P-77548-A
Feeler Gauges
Torque Converter Leak Check Tool and Gasket 014-R-1075
End Play Checking Tool T80L-7902-A
Dial Indicator with Bracketry Tool-4201-C
Case Bearing Installation Tool T97T-77110-A
Shift Lever Seal Replacer T74P-77498-A
Gauge Bar T93T-77003-AH
Turbine Shaft Speed Sensor Gauge T95L-70010-F
Gauge Bar T93T-77003-AH
Fluid Pump Seal Sizing Tool T95L-70010-G
Fluid Pump Alignment Set T74P-77103-X
Converter Guide Pins T95L-7902-A
Servo Cover Compressor T95L-77028-A
Band Adjustment Torque Wrench Set T71P-77370-A
Extension Housing Bushing Replacer T77L-7697-F
Extension Housing Seal Replacer T74P-77052-A
Digital TR Sensor Alignment Tool T97L-70010-A
Fluid PumpSeal Sizing Tool T95L-70010-G
Torque Converter Holding Tool T97T-7902-A

It seems to me the cost of buying all these tools really isn't worth it for a one time job. But if it can be done without these tools, I am willing to try it.

Autijlt, I know you said you replaced the clutches, bands, and low and intermediate servos. What tools did you use?

Any help on this will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Glacier991]

I have all the tools you mention... not all are absolutely required and/or can be improvised, but some really are essential without substitute in my opinion (lip seal protectors for example.)

I have only one set of 5R55E specific tools (the ones that start with 74 are C-3 tools and they are used with the A4LD also and I have several sets). So... based on my experience in loaning tools... which I do for free, you only pay shipping... the deposit on these will be significant.... but it is only a deposit...but there are quite a lot of tools to ship so roundtrip shipping will not be cheap for you... maybe $75 - $100.

At full retail these tools are worth in the neighborhood of $1500-$2000, I paid less for them on E-Bay... but really do not want to have to go through the hassle of rebuying them should they not come home. (And yes tools have not come home, or come home damaged). But short answer to "can you rent them" is NO, except from ME... and even then it is not a rental but a loan.... feel free to tithe something if you want to.


PM me about the VB. I insist that the fluid in your tranny must be clean, otherwise you could gunk up my brand new VB and solenoids.

 

[elittleton73]

Glacier, I PM you. I'm assuming you mean send a private message. Thanks for your help.

 

[Kean_SHO]

elittleton73, did you end up finding the problem? I have a similar issue after a VB rebuild. No R, or D, but 1 and 2 both engage. I did the Sonnax mod, Ford TSB, new Sep plate, left out the parts the TSB said to, and the superior shift kit. Im stumped and a bit bummed. So, I was wondering if you had any update to your issue.
I added my own thread, as it seems this one may have died- http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198109

 

[mrstubb]

Is Gauge Bar necessary

I have all the tools you mention... not all are absolutely required and/or can be improvised, but some really are essential without substitute in my opinion (lip seal protectors for example.)

I have only one set of 5R55E specific tools (the ones that start with 74 are C-3 tools and they are used with the A4LD also and I have several sets). So... based on my experience in loaning tools... which I do for free, you only pay shipping... the deposit on these will be significant.... but it is only a deposit...but there are quite a lot of tools to ship so roundtrip shipping will not be cheap for you... maybe $75 - $100.

At full retail these tools are worth in the neighborhood of $1500-$2000, I paid less for them on E-Bay... but really do not want to have to go through the hassle of rebuying them should they not come home. (And yes tools have not come home, or come home damaged). But short answer to "can you rent them" is NO, except from ME... and even then it is not a rental but a loan.... feel free to tithe something if you want to.


PM me about the VB. I insist that the fluid in your tranny must be clean, otherwise you could gunk up my brand new VB and solenoids.

I am rebuilding the 4R55E from my 98 Explorer. I have an ATSG Techtran Manual that I have been following step-by-step. I have made it to a step that the manual calls "Perform the Front End Play Check". In the instructions for this, it says:

• Place "Gauge Bar T93T-77003-AH" across the case. Then, place a micrometer on the gauge bar, extending probe until it contacts pump surface. Next, read micrometer & subtract thickness of gauge bar (17.78mm [0.700 in]). Record as dimension "A".
  
• Move gauge bar to opposite side of case. Repeat the steps above and record measurement as dimension "B". Add dimensions "A" & "B" together & divide by 2. This is the front end clearance, dimension "C".
  
• If the average is below specification, choose a thinner washer. If it is above specification, choose a thicker washer. The front end specification is 0.018 - 0.64mm (0.007 - 0.025 in).

My question: Is there any alternative method of doing this?

I have tried to find the gauge bar but no one has one. I considered substituting it with something having the same measurements, but am not sure that will work. You seem to have a good knowledge of the tools. And you stated that not all of them are required and/or can be improvised. Can you suggest what I should/can do?

 

[manaen]

you may want to PM Glacier directly. This is a very old thread and a PM will certainly grab his attention a lot quicker.

 

[mrstubb]

Thank you! I'll try that.