Sub Quality Improvement???????

[explorer93xlt]

I just put in 2, 12inch pioneers in my 93 in a hatchback box with 2 air ports and 2 tweeters, I first disconnected the tweeters to give all the power to the subs, and then I put fiberglass insulation in the box, I am running it off of a Pioneer Premier head unit that's 45x4 watts is their anything else I can do to improve the sound quality of the sub's I currently have them facing the rear so they are facing the lift gate (with the back of the box against the back seat) , any idea would help thanks in advance.,

 

[FMExplorer]

Are you running an amp with the system or just the pioneer head unit?

Jon M '93xlt

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Jon McLeod
'93 XLT

 

[explorer93xlt]

Just the pioneer head unit ,

 

[EB Bauer]

An amp is going to help a lot. It will boost the power to the subs for better performance. I run about the same setup but I have a pioneer EQ with soundstream crossover. I also have a soundstream 300 watt amp. With out the amp the subs didn't get enough power and they would crackle. so the amp helped my get a good sound quality for the sub.

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Scott Bauer
'91 Eddie Bauer

 

[JTang]

Do NOT power your aftermarket subs by your head unit!!! There is not enough power for them to be played correctly. A lot of subs are ruined by being underpowered just as much as being overpowered. What happens is that many subs rely on the motor structure to be cooled by the cone moving air over it. Although the subs are playing, there is not enough power to move the cone enough, so the motor structure gets increasingly hot. This is why the subs will crackle, and it hurts them.

More bass and the need for power, changes the resistance load. An external amplifier is made so that it can usually handle the various loads placed on it, but a head unit is made to play around the same 4 ohms (appoximately) because the higher frequencies like your high and mids won't fluctuate in power/resistance as much.

It's like a little kid trying to push a car. He may move it a little, but he'll tire himself out, unlike an adult, who can push a car, and won't be so taxed.

Any amp will be better than no amp.

 

[explorer93xlt]

TJang the head unit has special plugs on the back to run to subs up to 650 watts look here at what i mean on the bottom of this page Dead Link Removed the guy at crutchfield said with the mosfet power suply and the free air subs it would be fine, well one more question has anyone ever herd of Candance Car audio i think its big in the Jersey Shore i can get a good deal on a 800 watt amp but dont know if its worth it well look at the bottom of that page i linked to its pretty interesting.

 

[JTang]

Well I'll be a...!!! Wow, well, I was wrong on that one. I knew the new Mosfets were powerful, but not that good! Anyway, I haven't heard of Candance, but if you mean Cadence, then yes, they are reliable amps.

Good luck! Jon

 

[explorinit]

Whats up guys! I have a Pioneer DEH-6000 and I know a thing or two aobut their new "MOSFET" power. The comparison i would make to them saying hey we can push subs with our deck is kind of like ford saying you can shift into 4wd goin 50mph!!! Its possible but I dont reccomend it. Theoretically it will work, but you wont get optimum sound unless you get an amp. Im running the Pioneer 6000 to my 4 Pioneer 5x7 doors and then I have a Rockford 600.a4 going to 2 JL Audio 12s. It doesnt sound too bad, im savin up for some Boston tweeters though! Take it easy guys and post a reply if you have any questions...

Matt
'92 EB w/ Boom

 

[explorer93xlt]

JTang , do you think that that is right tho because if its bad for the subs i will remove them i really have no idea , u know alot more then me about this so should i remove them and wait or trust what that poage said , thanks alot chuck, i think thats is the amp how u spelt it is 150 bucks good for a 800 watt amp like 4 months old

 

[Burke Lauderdale]

I have 2 10' Subs (ESX) in an ESX bandpass box (I have the glass showing towards the driver, and the ports to the tailgate). THey are powered with a Kenwood PS200 watt amp. This is one, if not the most, hard hitting 10's in my school, if not where I live. I think that I could make more air pressure in the cabin than 2 12's or maybe 2 15's. You have to hear it to believe it. Make sure that you dont put anything in front of your ports. You need at least the width of the port (that distance ex: 2 in) this means dont block the port or put anything in front of it 2 in away. Thats all I know. As JTang said, any amp is better than no amp. Trust me you'll notice the difference.

Burke

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91' Eddie Bauer

 

[jason]

i used to have a cadence amp about 5 years ago i ended up blowing it those cheap are weird .look for cheaper sony amp on www.ebay.com those amps can take a beating

 

[mtxplorer]

jtang...
i think you are incorrect about too little power hurting subs. if theres not enough power to make the air move, theres not enough power to make the motor heat up too much. if the motor isn't moving much, its not going to gain a lot of heat, and this heat can be easily dissipated by the air around it.

 

[JTang]

I could be wrong, but it's one of those ongoing arguements on Car Audio bulletin boards, just like if Capacitors really work or not. But it is one of the reasons there manufacturers put minimum recommendations on the power level the subs should have. Sometimes just having air around the motor structure or voice coil isn't enough to dissipate heat. The manufactures design the subs so that cone movement will help cool them off. If the subs aren't played too hard, then I guess the coil will never get that hot, though. The voice coil can only get rid of so much heat depending on the surface area, until it needs a little help, which would be the cone moving. A voice coil is like a resistor itself, and will begin to retain heat. It's just like if you hold a small lighted match under a spoon. It won't be hot at first, but with continuous exposure, it'll just get hotter and hotter. However, if yours are playing fine, especially with the MOSFET 45, then I don't see why it should be a problem. I just originally totally forgot that you had a better head unit, so there's probably enough power going to them. Ported subs, however, don't have a lot of excursion.

 

[Shags2Dope]

running subs without amps is for idiots. with low wattage the high frequencies wont do much but they will shorten the life of you speaker. and as for sony amps, all of my friends that have had them have nuked thiers, including cd players. my only friend that hasnt had a problem from sony had a minidisc, but his portable walkman style one and home recorder unit both ate the dust after 1 year, like my pioneer cd deck i had before my kenwood. reccomendation: get an amp from a good company that focuses on subs or high wattage speakers, if the warrantee says 1 year it is crap. I personally run all infinity speaks and have never had a problem other than blowing out a 4 incher because the insulation on the wire broke and arced. infinity sent a replacement no questions asked, and they will for 3 years. pioneer subs put out good sound. My friends 4 runner has 4 12s and they work perfectly sharing one 300 watt rms kappa amp. in a vented box you wont need too much more than 100 or 150 watts because being an open box you will assassinate your sub from overexcursion. dont go half assed or you will get less than what you paid for.

 

[explorer93xlt]

Thanks allot for all your help, Shags2Dope I disconnected the subs and am going to wait till I get the amp to put them back, I put fiber glass insulation inside the box it seems to be improving the quality, will this cause any problems to the speakers?,, , The Cadence amp I was thinking of getting is 800 watts but the RMS value is 300 X 2, I also have 2 old Power Acoustic subs would it be a better idea to bridge the amp and hook 4 subs(the Pionners and the Power Acoustics) or just run the amp to the 2 Pionners and loose the power acoustic subs, one more question I was going to use 4 gauge Power wire for like 10 feet then feed it of to 7 feet of 8 gauge would that be good for a 600 watt amplifier,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond.

Oh one more thing I have this secret bracer that can be hooked up to the power wire under the hood , I was told its so you can work on the amp with out worrying about screwing anything up, should I use this even know I’m still going to have a fuse in the wire, is it ok to have more then 1 fuse?

 

[mtxplorer]

shags:
how do high frequencies shorten the life of a speaker?
"the idea that low power will ruin speakers is like saying an electric toothbrush will knock down a garage door"
car sterio review

 

[JTang]

Car Stereo Review doesn't always have its geniuses writing up for them. You'll notice when they have the Q&A section, and the writer always starts off with, "So, I called so and so company to see what they thought". This seems to happen every once in a while.

The parallel story they're pointing out is wrong and right at the same time. The garage door is the cone, the motor structure of the sub is the toothbrush. You're not ruining the garage door (cone), you're going to burn out and destroy the electric toothbrush.