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Thinking of trading my '13 sport for a new '15

csimon

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City, State
Acton, MA
Year, Model & Trim Level
2015 Ford Explorer Sport
Hi Everyone,

I have a black on black '13 sport with ~20,500 miles and zero problems since I got her! However, since I am leasing it - I thought about trading it in for a new '15 for the heated steering wheel and power fold and in silver (pissed though the lane departure and rain sensing is still not offered on the sport). The monthly payments are within $100 of each other.

I would rather own it outright than lease it for another two years and then think about another car. There is nothing that comes close to the value, especially with the X-plan pricing and current incentives.

Any thoughts as I cannot see a downside to this?

Thanks,
csimon
 



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You have a car that runs great and want to trade for a new color for $1,200 more a year with no real big upgrade otherwise? When you say the payment is within $100, is that for leasing like you currently are or to own the new Ex - and how many months is the payment obligation? How many months left on your current lease?
 






It is from a lease with 2 years left to a finance for five years. It is also for another Sport not and EX.
 






It is from a lease with 2 years left to a finance for five years. It is also for another Sport not and EX.

The Sport is an Explorer lol.

If you were going to buyout your Ex at the end of the lease then Id say go for it and trade it now so you can start paying principle on a vehicle you are going to keep. No sense in making more payments just to turn it in instead of paying on something now you will have for many years.
 






Lot of factors from a financial perspective. Is there any money down on the 5 year purchase payments? How long do you expect to keep your Ex Sport after the 5 years is up? What's the interest rate on the 5 year loan? Can you do better elsewhere on that rate? How many miles a year will you drive it? If a lot, it could be at the end of its life in just 6 or 7 years or have a lot of maintenance with a lot of miles.

To me the key to long term ownership is how little you can get away with in yearly maintenance costs when the car is 6, 7 and 8 years plus old. If very little, it tends to work out financially. If not, maybe not.

Before my Ex non-Sport I had a GMC Jimmy for 16 years that I bought new (don't buy new anymore). One reason it lasted so long was it was a secondary vehicle like my present Ex so it only had 136k on it for 16 years. The SUV was initially a disaster. Everything went wrong with it the first 3 years under warranty - including transmission going at 18k miles. However, they essentially fixed the whole vehicle. I hardly had a repair the last 12 years.

So taking out wear and tear replacement items, my cost on that $24k Jimmy was about $125 a month for 16 years based on the purchase price. I paid cash so I had no interest payments.

One good way for the OP to figure out what is worthwhile is to get the total cost of the payments you will make over 5 years and divide that number by the number of months you expect to own the EX Sport. 10 years is 120 months. Then factory in what you expect in maintenance costs as it gets older each year and compare that to always leasing - ans that's assuming you can keep trading in leases with no money down due to low miles and great condition.

Yes, it will be less than always leasing, but you don't get a new car every three years - and it may not be as much less as you might think.

The best way to buy and hold a car in my view is is to buy used when it is almost three years old near the end of a lease. You get a vehicle that was dealer maintained with about $30k miles on it with ideally 4-6 months left on the 3 year warranty just in case and the car has depreciated by 35-40%. Then if you own another 7 years the numbers work out much better. That's what I do - and I am fortunate enough to be able to save and pay cash so no interest payments, but I realize most can't do that, but having no car payments is nice security for things like a job loss. Buying a car every ten years can allow you to save and pay cash and avoid interest.

However, if you can't afford it without payments and always like to be in a new car, leasing is not so bad compared to the cost of buying new in the long run depending on maintenance costs.

In your case only paying $100 a month more than a 4 year lease for a 5 year purchase sounds pretty good if there is no money down. You are only paying $6k more to own - assuming no money down. If you plan on keeping the Ex 10 years, it works out if you have less than $6k in repair costs the last 5 years. Let's say you have $3k in repair costs. You have saved yourself $3k as opposed to having a new Ex Sport every 4 years on the lease with no real repair worries. Some may say having a new car every 4 years is worth an extra $3k every 10 years. Works much better if you buy used and save 40% of the original price and buy used like I do.

Another factor is that after you own it in 5 years you can retire it as a second car. This is where things end up making much more sense if you see a need or have a desire for more than one car like me.
 






Hi Everyone,

I have a black on black '13 sport with ~20,500 miles and zero problems since I got her! However, since I am leasing it - I thought about trading it in for a new '15 for the heated steering wheel and power fold and in silver

csimon

The new 15 Sport comes with a heated steering wheel???. Darn, I got a 14 sport and the heated steering wheel was only on the limited at the time, a feature I really, really wanted...and would have even paid extra as an option it it were available.
I wonder since it's now offered on the sport if it's something that can be ordered and retrofitted into a 14?
 






The new 15 Sport comes with a heated steering wheel???. Darn, I got a 14 sport and the heated steering wheel was only on the limited at the time, a feature I really, really wanted...and would have even paid extra as an option it it were available.
I wonder since it's now offered on the sport if it's something that can be ordered and retrofitted into a 14?

The problem with retrofitting is that the steering wheel is activated through MFT. The wheel button is the middle button between the driver and passenger heated/cooled seat control.

Just adding the wheel will not give you the button to activate it. You would then have to have the dealer flash your vehicle for the option which I believe they'd have to reflash it as a 2015. Not sure if they can do that as I believe it is VIN checked.
 






Wait for the 16MY, don't buy a 15MY.......Worth the wait.
 






Lot of factors from a financial perspective. Is there any money down on the 5 year purchase payments? How long do you expect to keep your Ex Sport after the 5 years is up? What's the interest rate on the 5 year loan? Can you do better elsewhere on that rate? How many miles a year will you drive it? If a lot, it could be at the end of its life in just 6 or 7 years or have a lot of maintenance with a lot of miles.

To me the key to long term ownership is how little you can get away with in yearly maintenance costs when the car is 6, 7 and 8 years plus old. If very little, it tends to work out financially. If not, maybe not.

Before my Ex non-Sport I had a GMC Jimmy for 16 years that I bought new (don't buy new anymore). One reason it lasted so long was it was a secondary vehicle like my present Ex so it only had 136k on it for 16 years. The SUV was initially a disaster. Everything went wrong with it the first 3 years under warranty - including transmission going at 18k miles. However, they essentially fixed the whole vehicle. I hardly had a repair the last 12 years.

So taking out wear and tear replacement items, my cost on that $24k Jimmy was about $125 a month for 16 years based on the purchase price. I paid cash so I had no interest payments.

One good way for the OP to figure out what is worthwhile is to get the total cost of the payments you will make over 5 years and divide that number by the number of months you expect to own the EX Sport. 10 years is 120 months. Then factory in what you expect in maintenance costs as it gets older each year and compare that to always leasing - ans that's assuming you can keep trading in leases with no money down due to low miles and great condition.

Yes, it will be less than always leasing, but you don't get a new car every three years - and it may not be as much less as you might think.

The best way to buy and hold a car in my view is is to buy used when it is almost three years old near the end of a lease. You get a vehicle that was dealer maintained with about $30k miles on it with ideally 4-6 months left on the 3 year warranty just in case and the car has depreciated by 35-40%. Then if you own another 7 years the numbers work out much better. That's what I do - and I am fortunate enough to be able to save and pay cash so no interest payments, but I realize most can't do that, but having no car payments is nice security for things like a job loss. Buying a car every ten years can allow you to save and pay cash and avoid interest.

However, if you can't afford it without payments and always like to be in a new car, leasing is not so bad compared to the cost of buying new in the long run depending on maintenance costs.

In your case only paying $100 a month more than a 4 year lease for a 5 year purchase sounds pretty good if there is no money down. You are only paying $6k more to own - assuming no money down. If you plan on keeping the Ex 10 years, it works out if you have less than $6k in repair costs the last 5 years. Let's say you have $3k in repair costs. You have saved yourself $3k as opposed to having a new Ex Sport every 4 years on the lease with no real repair worries. Some may say having a new car every 4 years is worth an extra $3k every 10 years. Works much better if you buy used and save 40% of the original price and buy used like I do.

Another factor is that after you own it in 5 years you can retire it as a second car. This is where things end up making much more sense if you see a need or have a desire for more than one car like me.

Yawn:eek::eek::eek:

At the end of the day, leasing simply allows many people to acquire vehicles that they couldn't otherwise afford, but it also allows them to always enjoy driving a newer vehicle. The vast majority of luxury cars are leased versus sold for this very reason. Some folks prefer perpetual payments, I don't and prefer to pay cash upfront and have done so with both new and used vehicles. My last two vehicles (2012 EX Ltd and 2015 Mazda CX-5 GT) were both cash purchases. I also just recently purchased the Premium Care extended warranty for the EX and will likely keep it another 4 years minimum before buying another vehicle which may or may not be a new one. As I mentioned, I personally would never consider a lease as I don't like owing money to anybody and/or having perpetual payments regardless of how the math/financial comparisons work out.
To each his own....
 






Yawn:eek::eek::eek:

At the end of the day, leasing simply allows many people to acquire vehicles that they couldn't otherwise afford, but it also allows them to always enjoy driving a newer vehicle. The vast majority of luxury cars are leased versus sold for this very reason. Some folks prefer perpetual payments, I don't and prefer to pay cash upfront and have done so with both new and used vehicles. My last two vehicles (2012 EX Ltd and 2015 Mazda CX-5 GT) were both cash purchases. I also just recently purchased the Premium Care extended warranty for the EX and will likely keep it another 4 years minimum before buying another vehicle which may or may not be a new one. As I mentioned, I personally would never consider a lease as I don't like owing money to anybody and/or having perpetual payments regardless of how the math/financial comparisons work out.
To each his own....


I get bored real quick with cars. I love the 13 Sport I have but have over a year left on the lease and am already looking for my next one. This is my first lease but I seem to like it so far, we'll see how it works out when the lease is up.

On another note, my investments are doing better than the auto loan interest rates so paying cash seems like a waste. Put that cash in some good investments and make more money instead of dumping it into a car.

I bought a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee in 2011 and the interest rate was 1.9%. Even a day trader with little experience can do better than that. :)
 






I get bored real quick with cars. I love the 13 Sport I have but have over a year left on the lease and am already looking for my next one. This is my first lease but I seem to like it so far, we'll see how it works out when the lease is up.

On another note, my investments are doing better than the auto loan interest rates so paying cash seems like a waste. Put that cash in some good investments and make more money instead of dumping it into a car.

I bought a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee in 2011 and the interest rate was 1.9%. Even a day trader with little experience can do better than that. :)

Don't worry...I have my investments looked after as well...like I said....I prefer not to owe anybody anything...which gives me complete control of my finances and leaves me completely fearless of what happens with/to the economy. Others who are maxed out with their payments be it credit card, car/lease payments and/or mortgages (because they just to have everything and can't control their spending), are playing with fire and it's just a matter of time before they get hit hard. Anyone remember the sub prime loan disaster in the US??? As I said to each his own...keep making those payments if it makes you happy!:)
 






Thanks for the feedback everyone. I do not want the '16 as that will be an entirely new vehicle and will usually cost more and have bugs that need to be worked out, so waiting for a '17 is too long.

I also thought about retrofitting the heated steering wheel and had my service manager look into it. Basically Ford said it was impossible since the connections are different at the plugs and the car would need to be rewired.

I also get bored with cars and had plenty over the years 11 in the last 6 years..but getting tired of wasting money and the Sport has been good to me so far. I do not want a premium car, so the only other options were the Jeep Grand wagoneer and SRT...but the SRT is too expensive and thirsty(love the interior though) and the Limited has that goldish/brown dash that I do not like. So the only other two SUV's in consideration is the Touareg, but had that and the dealer bought it back in 4 months due to a faulty ignition switch (died twice on me) and the new Toyota Highlander Hybrid. The Highlander has good power, great interior, great gas mileage...but costs a lot more(they are not giving discounts as it is high demand) and does not have the power steering column/foot pedals.

In addition having a third row is a nice to have as well (hence eliminating the Touareg and the Jeep).

Back to the Sport I guess, especially since I already have the Weathertech floor mats and snowtires.
 






Hi Everyone,

I have a black on black '13 sport with ~20,500 miles and zero problems since I got her! However, since I am leasing it - I thought about trading it in for a new '15 for the heated steering wheel and power fold and in silver (pissed though the lane departure and rain sensing is still not offered on the sport). The monthly payments are within $100 of each other.

I would rather own it outright than lease it for another two years and then think about another car. There is nothing that comes close to the value, especially with the X-plan pricing and current incentives.

Any thoughts as I cannot see a downside to this?

Thanks,
csimon
As Sgt1411 suggested, wait until the 2016 model is out. Many reports suggest that it will be a 'redesign'. If you don't like it, you can still get the 2015 and it may be cheaper then since it will be closer to the end of its cycle. My dealer bought out the final year of my 4 year lease on my 2011 Limited and after applying my refundable security deposit to the deal it cost me $38 out of pocket and $58 more a month on a 3 year lease on a Lincoln MKT which has a 4 year factory warranty and 0% lease interest.
One advantage of leasing is the tax. Tax is only paid on the monthly payment whereas with a purchase, it is all paid up front.
But as Hughcares stated, "to each his own."

Peter
 






Hi Peter,

Thanks for the thoughts, but I think were missing the objective of what I am trying to do and that is not spend two more years on a car that I am building no equity..basically wasting money for me if I know I am set on the car.
 






Vehicles, any vehicle, and especially new vehicles are just about the absolute worst dollar wise "investment" you can make....Most don't seem to see it that way, and it's just the American way to have that new car....but you really need to think about how much money you will really be loosing over the years buying cars, leases, loans etc. etc...just for a heated steering wheel......best regards Plum
 






Hi Peter,

Thanks for the thoughts, but I think were missing the objective of what I am trying to do and that is not spend two more years on a car that I am building no equity..basically wasting money for me if I know I am set on the car.

That is not fully true. You are gaining equity in the car but not as much as if you bought. Each month the buyout for your car drops as you make payments or at the end of the term you can buy it as a used vehicle for typically less then market value.

It does not gain as quickly since there is a "fee" to leasing and as Peter said you are charged a tax on each payment but you are still gaining equity. most people chose to give up that equity at the end of the term.

I am a leaser. I like new cars and whether I buy or lease I do not hold on long enough to be payment free. cars are not an investment in my eyes and I would rather my money working for me in other areas. That said I always trade my lease in before the end of term and get more money on it then the lease has left thus always a positive equity position.

I traded in my Grand Cherokee on my Sport. The GC was a lease with over a year left. I made about 8K in positive equity on the trade in that I used to put towards my sport lease.
 






Yawn:eek::eek::eek:

At the end of the day, leasing simply allows many people to acquire vehicles that they couldn't otherwise afford, but it also allows them to always enjoy driving a newer vehicle. The vast majority of luxury cars are leased versus sold for this very reason. Some folks prefer perpetual payments, I don't and prefer to pay cash upfront and have done so with both new and used vehicles. My last two vehicles (2012 EX Ltd and 2015 Mazda CX-5 GT) were both cash purchases. I also just recently purchased the Premium Care extended warranty for the EX and will likely keep it another 4 years minimum before buying another vehicle which may or may not be a new one. As I mentioned, I personally would never consider a lease as I don't like owing money to anybody and/or having perpetual payments regardless of how the math/financial comparisons work out.
To each his own....

You missed my points on how leasing can be viable regardless of what you can afford if you plan to finance a vehicle if you plan to buy new.

You may be well versed on numbers and finance. I'm not bad, but no expert. The point of the post was to throw out food for thought on the various options and what to consider for those who may not have considered everything that goes into it buying a car.

I see a lot of posts where I already knew the answer. I don't give a big YAWN.
 






$100 per month for a heated steering wheel??????

How many pair of gloves can you get for $100?

My portfolio is just fine and I pay cash for everything including my house.

A lot easier to keep your head and your emotions at bay while weathering a decline or bear market when you realize you have no payments for anything.

I bought cars to often at times when I was young also, but then I grew up.

When your wife loses her job and your solution is to buy a MH and tour the country while still in your fifties you will be more than glad you passed on a few new cars. YMMV
 






$100 per month for a heated steering wheel??????

How many pair of gloves can you get for $100?

My portfolio is just fine and I pay cash for everything including my house.

A lot easier to keep your head and your emotions at bay while weathering a decline or bear market when you realize you have no payments for anything.

I bought cars to often at times when I was young also, but then I grew up.

When your wife loses her job and your solution is to buy a MH and tour the country while still in your fifties you will be more than glad you passed on a few new cars. YMMV

The problem with your "solution" is that you are spending money upfront on a depreciating asset instead of working your money to gain value in any form of various investments. Even with a rate of 3% on a car loan that money you used to pay for the vehicle up front if in an low yielding investment would give a greater return then not having a car payment.

I agree that not having a payment is great But int he scheme of finances it is better to have a low interest payment and have the money working in another regard for you. Should you lose your job or whatever you would have more money to pull from your investment portfolio to pay off the vehicle to not have the payment and have MORE money from the investment period to pay for the gas for the MH in your example to go cross country...
 



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The problem with your "solution" is that you are spending money upfront on a depreciating asset instead of working your money to gain value in any form of various investments. Even with a rate of 3% on a car loan that money you used to pay for the vehicle up front if in an low yielding investment would give a greater return then not having a car payment.

I agree that not having a payment is great But int he scheme of finances it is better to have a low interest payment and have the money working in another regard for you. Should you lose your job or whatever you would have more money to pull from your investment portfolio to pay off the vehicle to not have the payment and have MORE money from the investment period to pay for the gas for the MH in your example to go cross country...

The biggest point everyone is missing here is the fact that most people DON'T have any savings/investments because they can't afford to and because they keep spending on their wants instead of their needs. Their credit cards are maxed out and they only make the minimum monthly payments. Plus they buy as much house and car(s) as their monthly income will allow without any thoughts towards savings or if they were to lose their jobs. They won't/don't have any savings to fall back on should they lose their jobs or the economy takes another hit. People just have a hard time living within their means and being prepared for any kind of financial emergency. That is the problem with today's economy...too much credit available, especially for those folks that live pay check to pay check to begin with.....Knock yourself out folks, but living debt free is an amazing feeling that the vast majority of people will never comprehend or ever be able to enjoy

Ok....stepping down from my soapbox now!:)
 






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