Thoughts on SOHC not being able to idle with low gas tank level.

[C420sailor]

It’s a shame...no one really wrenches anymore these days. Everyone leases. Cars have become disposable.

 

[German Engineer]

In no way way are you “crippling” your car by adding an access panel. I’d absolutely cut one when the tank was down, so you never have to drop it again. (I’d cut it with it in there, but I’m wild)

I have yet not see even a single documented example here in this forum or elsewhere that shows an access panel mod that's not a serious safety hazard. They're all more or less "lazy" and incompetently done jobs ignoring numerous safety aspects.
I've wasted enough time in other discussions about this modification pointing out the need to ensure that no gas fumes and no exhaust leak into the cabin, to ensure sufficient fire resistance and the need to ensure structural integrity in case of collisions. Especially impacts of objects that can force the gas tank upwards enough to rip the fuel lines off. Situations like when ending up with two wheels in a ditch, or hitting a large Rock or log or tree stump with sufficient speed.
Nearly all of the documented examples I have seen so far are absolutely pristine candidates for flamethrowers just waiting to be ignited.
And not a single one of the ones I've seen would pass the requirements to qualify for certification of the vehicle to be street legal if it was to be sold commercially that way here, or even just to be legally registered and driven on a German road. And if Ford had done them anything like that, then each and every one of these mods would have been a safety recall.

Yes, I'd also love to have an access panel like several vehicles have them, but constructing a proper and safe access panel happens to be a lot more work than it is to drop the gas tank 3 or 4 times to replace the fuel pumps.

It's a free country and not everyone needs to adhere to common safety standards, but If I see a mod like that on a vehicle that I'm interested in buying or that a friend asks for my opinion whether they should buy it or not, I'd just go and leave right then and there.
At best I go ahead and buy the owner of that vehicle one of these famous "Bomb squad technician, if you see me run... " T-shirts.

 

[Mbrooks420]

How would it have been a recall? Tons of cars have access panels. There’s no inherent danger.

Just because people do hack work doesn’t mean it can’t easily be done. People botch things as easy as brake jobs all the time. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t attempt a brake job....... Just do it right.

 

[CDW6212R]

I agree, the examples virtually all have the jagged hole covered with a piece of sheet metal just screwed back in place. That could work if the new steel is thicker and sealed very well. As a minimum I'd use Ultra Copper RTV, that and multiple bolts could be strong enough to be safe I think.

 

[CDW6212R]

OP, at least check the fuel pressure. If you find it dropping below 60 psi, it's time to worry about it. Mine(99 SOHC) tested at 60psi or just under(58ish) over several months, I had an intermittent P0171 code(lean A/F). It tested at 52psi one day at a friend's house, so I then decided to do the pump. Mine turned out to be not the pump, but one of the two short rubber hoses at the pump and FPR. It had a tiny split, which was bleeding off pressure at higher rpm's.

 

[German Engineer]

How would it have been a recall? Tons of cars have access panels. There’s no inherent danger.

Just because people do hack work doesn’t mean it can’t easily be done. People botch things as easy as brake jobs all the time. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t attempt a brake job....... Just do it right.

Those are designed and built completely different than the mods you will find. The stock ones on other vehicles have proper seals and rounded corners (to avoid stress concentrations), they are dimensioned and bolted on properly, they don't create edges that cut or rip off the fuel lines in case the gas tank should be pushed and forced upwards..... They're also not cutting away the structure immediately adjacent to the seat and seat belt mounts that holds them in place...

I'm not saying it's not doable to create a reasonably safe access panel, but I have not seen a single example here for our Explorers that truly is yet.

Go ahead be the first to make one and teach others here how to safely do it.
But as I said, if you do it safely and properly then it'll end up being much more work and far more time consuming and more costly than dropping the gas tank a couple of times.
Of course if you plan on replacing a fuel pump every other month or even just every other year... but if you'd really need to replace them that often then you don't have a problem with your fuel pumps, then you'll certainly have other problems.

 

[Mbrooks420]

The gas tanks in these can’t really get pushed upwards. I crushed a gas tank in so much it that it held noticeably less at fill ups. The tank stayed right where it was.

You’re making this seem like rocket science. It’s not.

 

[German Engineer]

The gas tanks in these can’t really get pushed upwards. I crushed a gas tank in so much it that it held noticeably less at fill ups. The tank stayed right where it was.

You’re making this seem like rocket science. It’s not.

That's "only" and exactly so, simply because the way it is designed on stock Explorers, the gas tank has no hole right above the pump assembly so that it can not move upwards into the cabin, while squishing and ripping the flexible fuel lines off.
On a stock Explorer you still have the cabin floor in place right there. And because of that, the worst that can happen on the stock Explorers, is that the lines on top of the fuel assembly get pushed against the cabin floor, leaving the gas tank to be crushed instead of being pushed upwards with the fuel lines on top being pushed into the inside cabin and ripped open.

It's not rocket science, but it does involve some very basic engineering that none of the documented mods entail.
It's just a little bit more complicated than simply taking a Dremel and cutting away whatever metal people feel like cutting away to get to the fuel pump assembly as easily as possible, only so they can gain mere minutes during an imaginary pit stop on a future rally competition that they'll never participate in anyways.

You obviously seem to disagree, that's fine. If you want to cripple your own car, go ahead. If you want to engineer a safe access panel for your own vehicle, go ahead, try to do it properly, or be as "wild" as you want.
But please don't expect or count on others to heroically pull you out of your own burning vehicle, when things go horribly wrong with your mod.

I feel I've really had this conversation long enough on this forum with enough stubborn people around, who just seem to be overly eager to light themselves on fire. I'm getting a bit tired of 'preaching' the absolute minimum standard safety aspects around this total-whack-job-style-access-panel-mod topic by now. I'm just getting tired of people who have no clue what their doing, while feeling qualified and called upon to be recommending others do the same crazy stuff that they came up with, playing Russian fuel pump roulette and trying to set themselves on fire accidentally.

So let's just agree to disagree. You be as crazy as you want with your Explorer I'll drop my fuel tank again next time I need to and I'll be happy my cabin floor looks as nice as it does when I do.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Enough. I’m done your nonsense.

 

[C420sailor]

I’m not a fan either. Dropping the tank isn’t hard at all. And considering that it only has to be done every 200,000mi or so (I replaced mine preemptively at 215,000), why hack away at an otherwise pristine vehicle?

This was one ‘mod’ I never understood, but to each his own.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Who is recommending doing this to a “pristine” vehicle. Very few second gens are remotely pristine.

 

[donalds]

Yea I've been thinking of doing something with paint on mine
I got no rust it's a start lol

 

[Mbrooks420]

Mines extremely rust free, but my paint is desert beat.

 

[donalds]

Yea I've been thinking of doing something with paint on mine
I got no rust it's a start lol

Mines extremely rust free, but my paint is desert beat.

I'm thinking truck bed linear

 

[C420sailor]

Maybe it’s because I also work on airplanes, but I believe in ‘by the book’ maintenance.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Newsflash. I didn’t actually recommend anyone do this. Not even the one who brought it up.

Don’t wanna do it because you’re so much smarter/better/above it, don’t.

 

[imp]

Awesome, that makes it look almost easy. unfortunately it has become a little too cold in chicagoland to be laying on the ground right now and wrenching on a car. Since this has only happened once, when the gas level was extremely low, and since the pump appears to be happy once the tank was filled, and had no further issues, I think I'm going to tell my daughter to keep the tank above 1/2 full, and roll the dice until spring.

I know that will have some of you shaking your heads, I'm not a big fan myself of just crossing your fingers and hoping, instead of fixing what needs to be fixed, that plan usually ends up biting you in your ass. If I see any more pump related issues before spring, that will force my hand, and I will have replace it then and there. But right now, I have visions of me having to suit up in my carharts, lying on my back on the ground in 30 degree weather, and snapping off a bolt on my daughter daily driver.

And on a side note to donalds, congratulations on having a son that likes to wrench. I've got a lifetime of tools (I'm 58) that I would have killed to have back when I was younger, and right now my two potential son-in-laws, who would stand to inherit all of them, probably couldn't change their own oil.

The choice of sons in law was unfortunately made by female minds, rather than your own! I am 78, no kids, no relatives (save for wife), 20,000+ pounds of tools & machinery (lathe, milling machine, etc.), and wish I could give it all to someone young and worthy.

 

[donalds]

People who want and will use them can't afford it
The people who can afford it don't want to learn they are to busy on the phone it's a shame

 

[gazzerp]

After warning my daughter repeatedly not to trust the gas gauge on a vehicle built in 1998, she ran it down to less than a quarter tank on the gauge. When I went to start it, to move it out of the way of my car, it would start every time, but would not idle on its own. I ended up having to keep one foot feathering the gas pedal and putting the other on the brake to shift out of park and then continue to give it gas or it would die. I figured that something else was wrong with the car and I'd be freezing my ass off soon working on it.

After she filled the gas tank up, it ran like a top. You can even reach in through the driver side window and start the car and it now idles like it was brand new.

There obviously was still gas in the tank or it would not have started and would not have kept running with my foot feathering the Gas peddle. Any thoughts on why a low gas tank would cause it to not idle on it's own?

I had a 1997 AWD 5.0 and fell foul of the temperamental gas tank/pump on more than one occasion. Slightly different symptom to yours, though. If I parked with the car pointing downhill with less than a 1/4 tank remaining, it was liable to not start. Get on level ground again (assuming I could; one time, I was parked between two vehicles and couldn't roll-out - or, back up... I had to walk to get gas...) and it would be just fine. I sold that with 257,000m on it earlier this year... now into a 2017 F150 and the gas tank/leveling issue exists here, too!!

 

[c47@pacbell.net]

After warning my daughter repeatedly not to trust the gas gauge on a vehicle built in 1998, she ran it down to less than a quarter tank on the gauge. When I went to start it, to move it out of the way of my car, it would start every time, but would not idle on its own. I ended up having to keep one foot feathering the gas pedal and putting the other on the brake to shift out of park and then continue to give it gas or it would die. I figured that something else was wrong with the car and I'd be freezing my ass off soon working on it.

After she filled the gas tank up, it ran like a top. You can even reach in through the driver side window and start the car and it now idles like it was brand new.

There obviously was still gas in the tank or it would not have started and would not have kept running with my foot feathering the Gas peddle. Any thoughts on why a low gas tank would cause it to not idle on it's own?

I am sure others have said it, but that is a classic fuel pump issue. Had the exact same thing happen to me before.