Top End Rebuild???

[Kyle K.]

Hey guys, as some of y'all know i have a cracked head , have the top end apart and am getting ready to rebuild it. The question i have is directed at the motor heads. I have rebuilt engines before 3 or 4 and helped on others but haven't called the shots on performance needs especially for the top end. Do you guys think i should spend the money on better, more power inducing ; cam, lifters, valves, ....? I have located a used head that i will have fluxxed and both heads will be very slightly decked, i plan on getting headers, larger MAS , and TB , as soon as i can afford it as well as KKN filter kit and freer flowing exhaust. i can't afford to have the heads ground or the plenum opened up, so which parts should i use in the top end, stock parts or bigger better parts?

the only reason i ask , instead of automatically jumping for the big stuff is a guy i work with that built his own 613 dynoed 502 bowtie, gave me the line about if you go bigger with this then you gotta go bigger with that and if you do that then you gotta get the heads and plenum opened up too. what do you guys think.? should i use stock parts and get my power from the add ons or should i go ahead and build it inside and out? any advice would be greatly appreciated.

dodger

 

[Kyle K.]

C'mon guys a little help here? some of you have built motors, what do you think qtrmile? anyone else? thanx

dodger

 

[Cameron]

Dodger,

That’s kind of a hard question to answer. What is your ultimate goal with your truck? Are you looking for it to get you to and from work with occasional off roading, or are you looking to spank some Mustangs? If your concerned about gas mileage and/or you don't have deep pockets, replace the heads with stock and your set. If on the other hand, you're looking to light up the tires and you got a nice bank roll to do it with, I say, gut the bottom end. Put some high performance pistons, forged rods, competition crank, go nuts. Put high performance heads, headers and then a Turbonetiks(spelling?) Y2K Turbo and push it to about 30 lbs. of boost. Run a NOS system a get that bad boy up to about 450+ HP! I guess my point is that your options are endless as I'm sure you know. Your friend is correct, hours power is expensive. I'm not talking about adding 20 to 50 horses, I'm talking about real HP! I'm talking about ding the quarter in 11's. That gets expensive. So, what is your goal, and how much are you willing to spend to get there?


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'97 Sport 4X4

 

[Kyle K.]

Hey Cam, my main goal is to get it back together so i can drive the damn thing, once it's running again i can do the lift , it is all paid for and sitting in boxes waiting fo intstall time. the money going into the motor was tire and alignment money. i can go $75 used head, $100 top end gasket set and $40 head check and resurfacing and get it on the road, but i don't want to have it apart and waste the opportunity. i know basically the options out there, but i don't have money for hi po heads, pistons and rods, i was thinking since it has 75,000 miles i should go ahead and pull the block, and do a ring job though, thats smart i think, don't want a new top end and a problem bottom end. so if i am just looking for a decent increase in power, from a cam and lifter set - i need numbers here, new valves yes or no? if new what size should i go with? the intent for the truck is regular driving , not necessarily daily driver cause i have a rice burner for the 100 mile daily trip, but decent milage would eb nice, i am not looking to smoke any stangs, or burn any expensive tires, but i do need extra power and more importantly low end torque for 4wheelin' which the 7.5" lift and 33 and/or 35" tires was designed for. when i get the block out to do the ring job i was considering boring it .030 yes , no any ideas, i know what to do with my 440 but not sure how to handle this 4.0, help from v6 ford guys would be a great help. so to sum it up for more overall streetable power and torque on a medium budget, what numbers should i be looking at for cam grind, valves, bore, anything else...? i do plan on using headers, larger throttle body, MAS, KKN filter kit, and all new exhaust, free flow cat, dual pipes ?maybe?, dynomax mufflers, other stuff as i go along.

no cam i don't have a bank roll to go 450+ wish i did but that money is going in the big dodge 440+ for the 1/2 ton with 1 ton running gear and 44's (in the works) also gotta keep momma happy hoppin up the neon scca style.

thanx sorry so long winded

dodger

 

[SteveVB]

Dodger,

If I were doing it I would leave the bottom end alone, get a cam and replace the lifters since the top end is apart. Comp cams has a slightly "larger" cam if you want one. (same as sold by vanair tech I think). Check the rockers also. With the other mods you've written about(MAS,TB,headers) you should get your torque and keep a decent amount of reliability.

Most of the problems with the 4.0 engine seem to be on the top end, heads, lifters, rocker arms. This is from my observation of posts here and elsewhere, plus my limited personal experience-I developed a lifter prob. at 140k. (week after lift went in- I am living with it until tires and brakes are done). So leaving the bottom end alone at 70 doesnt sound like a terrible thing.

With goals similar to yours with respect to an engine, my plan is to rebuild the bottom end to stock specs, new cam and all new top end, MAS,TB and headers, it should make a decent engine with few problems( my plan anyway )so now to find the $$$$

Just my opinion, others may have something more to add.

Good luck- the Dodge sounds awsome

Steve

 

[Cameron]

Well, if you're going to pull the whole engine out to do a ring job, I would replace the pistons with forged ones and get some steel rods. Pistons and rods should run $400.00 to $600.00 for the set. Also, have your crankshaft balanced and polished. I wouldn’t spend the money having it board out though. The problem with boring it out is that it makes the piston wall that much thinner. I would get it honed. Also, if you boar it out and then later, due to a heavy scratch, you need to have it board out again, you are out of luck. I would put that money ($300 to $500) towards the pistons and rods. Okay, you may be thinking why would I go through all that for a motor that doesn’t turn that many RPMs? Well, if you ever want to supercharge it and/or run NOS., you don't have to worry about the bottom end, it can handle it. Peace of mind is worth a lot. Have the heads polished and ported. One of the best things you can do to a head is a 3 angle valve job. That’s where the actually cut 3 angles on the valve and the valve seat so the valve closes tighter. Replace all the guts of the heads with new, higher performance parts. Get the best you can afford. The key to gaining the maximum from you motor is BALANCE. Also, don't skimp on the bolts. Any bolts. Replace the cam with something a little more radical to get some lower end torque. If course, if you don't want to put that kind of money into your motor, a good option is to take your existing pistons, rods and crank and have them balanced, polished and otherwise prepped by a quality machine shop. Although, that can get expensive too. I guess there is no way to do this cheaply other then just replace the rings and put the heads back on. I would just be a shame to have the motor apart and not take that opportunity to beef it up. Then again, I don’t have a rocking Mopar in the garage. Your best bet is to find a local high performance shop and get some advice from them. Tell them what your goal is and they'll tell you how to get there.

Keep us updated.


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'97 Sport 4X4

 

[Kyle K.]

THanx for your input guys. the reason i was thinking about having the cylinders bored was because when the heads cracked i got it home but could not work on it for a few days, there was water sitting in each cylinder caused some cancer on the walls. also i can get my cylinders bored for a total of $66 hehe i know a guy that owns a machine shop. i can ge a deal on the 3 angle valve job, that was part of the original plan, i don't have the $400-$600 for the rods and pistons, and don't forsee a supercharger or nitrous at all. like i said that insanity goes to the big dodge. i will check on the cam, lifters, valves, port and polish prices though. i have a scotch brite wheel to clean the cylinder walls and a cylinder hone, if i can clean them up this way i may not bore it, i wonder if i can get .020 rings? when they polish the crank and rods what are they really doing? just deburring and smoothing off? arp studs are definitely in the plan anyway

maybe i will watch a session at the shop before i spend the money. anyway thanx again for the advice will call my buddy and a few vendors to check top end options?

thanx fellas

dodger